Who needs go up and who down survey ?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think we got our winner for the "unwillingly funniest quote of the thread".
7K NR? Obviously...
Shrugging eNSD? You mean we had special NR powers like... I don't know... Nano Doctorate, only much more impressive?
Better evade than A LOT of other profs... hmmm, sols, docs, agents... and?

hay, agent defences are nothing to shrug at.

I was attempting to perk an agent last night on BS and failed. I had to wait until MM and swap to offence hud 3 in order to perk him.

In case that's a "WTF does that mean?" it means I needed 3290ish AR to perk him.

Thats not exactly diddly. for the record though, it's unusual in a DUEL to be in a defensive setup vs an NT, HOWEVER, it's unlikely someone will be in an offensive setup in mass PVP since the objective of mass PVP is to remain alive so you can tab q as long as the zerg is still functioning.

[Marinegent]

Agent defense ratings are a joke. 2950~ tops is what you can get in a fully endgame setup as opifex. That's after AAD, and selfed + tp'd.

3050 with 12 man tops, maybe a 3100 if he's osb'd to hell with things like ICRT + 12 man. But thats taking a profession and adding a bunch of boosts that it doesnt normally have and dont actually reflect the profession or setup properly itself.

[-Klod-]

Better evade than A LOT of other profs... hmmm, sols, docs, agents... and?

Bow MPs, obviously.

Oh and enfs, engies, kippurs...

[Shrubberyman]

Bow MPs, obviously.

Oh and enfs, engies, kippurs...

Engi indeed, the rest certainly not : like NTs, they are around 2,8/3k of added evades+AAD.

Edit : checked for the lulz. Apart from engineers, all the other profs are in the same evade league than NTs.

[borriss]

Agent defense ratings are a joke. 2950~ tops is what you can get in a fully endgame setup as opifex. That's after AAD, and selfed + tp'd.

3050 with 12 man tops, maybe a 3100 if he's osb'd to hell with things like ICRT + 12 man. But thats taking a profession and adding a bunch of boosts that it doesnt normally have and dont actually reflect the profession or setup properly itself.

I've failed to perk agen'ts with 3.3k AR... :< And they were alone in C far from pesky crats!! Bu yeah I don't know what that means..

But before LE and LoX Agent's reached 3k def, or close to it so I would imagine it is more now..

[sultryvoltron]

I've failed to perk agen'ts with 3.3k AR... :< And they were alone in C far from pesky crats!! Bu yeah I don't know what that means..

But before LE and LoX Agent's reached 3k def, or close to it so I would imagine it is more now..

It's, honestly, not that much more these days without OBs. There weren't many significant evade increases from LE -> Xan apart from Alphas and Tokenboards. That's like... 80 def tops. Certainly doesn't take them from 3k -> 3.3k. With Wit it's considerably more, so perhaps you were fighting an Atrox? If not, sounds like the Agents were OB'd a with a bunch of things.

[-Klod-]

Apart from engineers, all the other profs are in the same evade league than NTs.

Passive evades, that is. Which is sad for a, so called, "glass" cannon.

[Shareida]

This, especially on soldiers part, they cant kill a thing and BR leaves them without any defence.

Especially BR.

[Esssch]

I think we got our winner for the "unwillingly funniest quote of the thread".
7K NR? Obviously...
Shrugging eNSD? You mean we had special NR powers like... I don't know... Nano Doctorate, only much more impressive?
Better evade than A LOT of other profs... hmmm, sols, docs, agents... and?

I think we got our winner for the "too downsy to understand anything quote of the thread"

7k NR was obviously an exaggeration. I know they don't have 7k, but they have enough for eNSD to rarely land on them, even if they're 219 and I'm a 220 in Combined Scouts and mostly alphas/betas with a few 250+ symbs mixed in. So yes, they shrug off eNSD, since it doesn't land on them. And even when it does, that means I get 15 seconds to kill them, because that's how long eNSD lasts, and I can't just keep it on them, since it landing in the first place was a lightning-strike of luck. Oh, but eNSD has a 10s recharge too, so that means I actually get 5s to try and land it on them again or nuke. It's a joke that the nemesis nano that FC actually did right has an attack rating split between 3 skills versus a defense rating of 100% NR, when we're supposed to be landing it on the masters of NR.

Ok, better evades: I mean this as in I can perk most other profs, but when it comes to an NT, my perks almost always miss. Be this because my perks are going against NR or the AAO debuff from blinds, I don't know. Naturally I'm not an AR oriented class (especially since MPs have the worst AR template ingame). However, soldiers/docs/agents/MPs/engis/traders...oh hey that's 6/14 profs! That's almost half!

[Marinegent]

I've failed to perk agen'ts with 3.3k AR... :< And they were alone in C far from pesky crats!! Bu yeah I don't know what that means..

But before LE and LoX Agent's reached 3k def, or close to it so I would imagine it is more now..

Completely finished equip including double igoc's and a 150 AAD tower and i still havent reached 3000 dodge technically.

And people wonder why i stopped playing my agent..

I challenge anyone to look at my equip and tell me where im missing evades.

[-Klod-]

Completely finished equip including double igoc's and a 150 AAD tower and i still havent reached 3000 dodge technically.

And people wonder why i stopped playing my agent..

I challenge anyone to look at my equip and tell me where im missing evades.

I could just take a peek, if you linked it, that is.

[Marinegent]

I could just take a peek, if you linked it, that is.

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=159126

Quick notes before you jump into it. Things like HHAB must stay, due to agent debuff vulnerability. Also, thinks like MOTFK instead of CSS wont work as it lowers overall defense as well as attack rating significantly.

Without destroying the setup in one aspect or another to achieve a few extra evades, i see no way possible to push it higher.

That setup includes a 44 AAD tower.

[nikkydkhick]

This topic represents all that is venal and petty any time you substitute popularity for rational decisions based on facts. It has descending into a Monty Python gainsaying contest, Nerf hammers, No! Nerf screwdrivers, No Hammers, No screwdrivers..... ad infinitum

[Obtena]

There couldn't be a worse, more subjective way to evaluate PVP in this game than this thread.

[Shrubberyman]

Passive evades, that is. Which is sad for a, so called, "glass" cannon.

NT's don't have much in the field of active evades. If you go that way, active evades I mean, then Keepers and MPs beat NTs hands down (procs, perk specials). NTs evades are based on common gear available to everyone, with the exception of nanodeck, special helmet and ofab ring. So actually, NT's evades are in the same league than agents', which puts us in the second to last category of evaders, second only to Docs, Engis and sols. Did I mention dark blue evade skills btw?

I think we got our winner for the "too downsy to understand anything quote of the thread"

The fact you're not making any sense is alot more to blame than my comprehension skill, but thx for your /caring

7k NR was obviously an exaggeration. I know they don't have 7k, but they have enough for eNSD to rarely land on them, even if they're 219 and I'm a 220 in Combined Scouts and mostly alphas/betas with a few 250+ symbs mixed in. So yes, they shrug off eNSD, since it doesn't land on them. And even when it does, that means I get 15 seconds to kill them, because that's how long eNSD lasts, and I can't just keep it on them, since it landing in the first place was a lightning-strike of luck. Oh, but eNSD has a 10s recharge too, so that means I actually get 5s to try and land it on them again or nuke. It's a joke that the nemesis nano that FC actually did right has an attack rating split between 3 skills versus a defense rating of 100% NR, when we're supposed to be landing it on the masters of NR.

Then your problem is with eNSD mechanics and the amount of available NR. See, we're getting somewhere...
Side note : master of NR are enforcers.

Ok, better evades: I mean this as in I can perk most other profs, but when it comes to an NT, my perks almost always miss. Be this because my perks are going against NR or the AAO debuff from blinds, I don't know. Naturally I'm not an AR oriented class (especially since MPs have the worst AR template ingame). However, soldiers/docs/agents/MPs/engis/traders...oh hey that's 6/14 profs! That's almost half!

NR+AAD perk checks are a plague for anyone using these perks for now.
A non-endgame, not AR orientated prof in Scout not perking an endgame non-evade oriented prof in evade gear doesn't shock me for some reason.
Blinds it will cost you about 50m to have complete immunity against (til rebalancing)
Soldiers, agents, traders, some engis perk NTs just alright as long as they don't get DWLed. At least two of them even have evade debuffers. So 2/14.

There couldn't be a worse, more subjective way to evaluate PVP in this game than this thread.

Clearly, but it's still entertaining, I even got to resume an old mock fight (hai Klod!)

[Brofist]

Clearly the +50 evades for 20 seconds form NT Signet Ring is what is making NT's godly evaders.

[Ctrlaltwin]

Clearly the +50 evades for 20 seconds form NT Signet Ring is what is making NT's godly evaders.

Read my thoughts on this post here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...48&postcount=9

[Xtremtech]

There couldn't be a worse, more subjective way to evaluate PVP in this game than this thread.

I dunno... sometimes subjective input can be useful and meaningful. Just getting a feel for which professions players on the whole feel need some help and those players on the whole feel are doing well or may be OP can be a useful thing.

In the end, when we're playing the game, we're not running skills and stat percentages through our minds all the time... we experience the game in a subjective way. And indeed whether we're having fun or not is a pretty much a subjective experience.

If most people generally have more fun PvPing with their Ranged Advie or Engineer than they have with their MP or MA... then maybe that does mean that the MP/MA profs need more work - whether or not they're objectively reasonably well balanced. It may not be possible to quantify it, but that feeling and its effect on player satisfaction with the game is still very real.

In the end, the goal of the game designers must be that players have fun and enjoy the game... and that's a subjective goal.

Designers will have to base their detailed design decisions on the objective stats of course. Their challenge is to achieve those subjective goals by means of objective change management. But arguing details of the whys and wherefores in a thread like this is pointless... the whole idea is to get subjective opinion - not an objective comparison of the features and toolsets of different professions.

If people stick to the straight-forward listings as asked for... then the thread has some merit and can give some interesting insight into how players feel.

X

[Esssch]

The fact you're not making any sense is alot more to blame than my comprehension skill, but thx for your /caring

It's really not. The fact that you want MPs to remain an loleasykill for your faceroll NT is alot more to blame.

Then your problem is with eNSD mechanics and the amount of available NR. See, we're getting somewhere...
Side note : master of NR are enforcers.

My problem is with the fact that NTs get a ridiculous amount of NR. Alternatively, if the NR check on eNSD got lowered to make it so that it's reliably (read: even half the time, as opposed to 1/20 like it is now) landable on NTs, that would be acceptable for me. Although NTs still get too much NR, which is exactly what I said to begin with.
Site note: yes they are, but what exactly do I need to NSD enfs for? Their attacks are through weapons, not nanos like NTs. So of the profs NSD is actually useful against, NTs are the masters of NR, with docs a close 2nd.

NR+AAD perk checks are a plague for anyone using these perks for now.
A non-endgame, not AR orientated prof in Scout not perking an endgame non-evade oriented prof in evade gear doesn't shock me for some reason.
Blinds it will cost you about 50m to have complete immunity against (til rebalancing)
Soldiers, agents, traders, some engis perk NTs just alright as long as they don't get DWLed. At least two of them even have evade debuffers. So 2/14.

Non-endgame? How do you figure? I have about 6 or 7 more items to get and then my character is completely done, there will be no possible way for him to be any better. If we're just comparing PERFECT toons, then the rebalancing is a waste of time. You won't find many MPs who are better equipped than mine (they are out there, but there's not a lot of them). And how do you figure a 219 NT is end-game? You have the most ****ed up view on professions other than NT I've ever seen.

Since you're saying that NT's evade gear is basically on gear that everyone can grab, and I can perk these other people, so the only difference is...you guess it, NR! So where's your argument that NTs don't have too much NR? Cause it's either not there or very very very poor.

How did you get 2/14 btw? When were we talking about people being able to perk NTs? I was talking about their evades, relative to the evades of other classes, which you still haven't refuted. I know, keeping track of the 3 posts in the conversation before this is tough. Feel free to continue though, your bias is showing. Notice how almost everyone in this thread has said that MPs need buffing, while almost everyone has also said that NTs need to be nerfed. I just gave reasons for the nerfing, as seen by an MP (you know, the master of shutting down nanoskills).

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I vote for more QQ and more H8.

Did we haz drama?

btw, Xtremetech, i completely agree. The subjective experience is absolutely what makes the game playable, and what causes people to /emo rage, or /emo reroll.

Here's two things I've heard lately too: I stopped playing my (ranged) advy because it's not challenging. Ditto for the 1hb/1he enfo.

If people stop playing their toon because it's not even fun anymore, when rarely can you find a challenge, thats when you know:

Sht's BROKE