Plans with traders

[fixyourself]

Been reading a bit about the nerfing of certain professions and some balancing and I can say either I didnt find it or it has not been adressed but what are the plans with traders in pvp TL's 1-5? This profession is quite possibly the best pvp choice at tl's 1-3 then things start to level out a bit at 4/5 but are still a bit op. Well anyways if there is a thread about upcoming changes to the Trader Profession could somebody please leave the link here ?

[Xtremtech]

What little detail there's been so far is in the sticky thread in the Trader forums. You need to read down a bit to get some of the details that came out a bit after the original post. There's not really a great deal specifically about lower level Trader PvP though.

The Nano detail document for the trader will probably be the most interesting read. How they deal with all the cool-downs will make a big difference to how trader stuff works because of the potential for reducing laddering.

If you look at some of the nano docs that have come out for other profs, there has been quite a bit of stuff reducing the usage of nanos meant for high levels being used on low levels (e.g. fixer HoTs). You might feel that it's a possibility that they'd apply that to the trader drains too, making the heavier drains only work against higher level targets? But that's really just speculation, even if it's based on some of the broad direction we've seen.

X

[Saetos]

Balancing the skill drains is going to be, bar none, one of the hardest parts of this entire rebalance. We rely on stacking drains not only in PVP, but in PVM to equip large QL weapons and to cast high-quality health plunders and Hagglers and other spiffy things. If we lose this, we lose offensive power, our support role in PVM is all but shattered, and combat becomes a monotonous affair of Deprive-Ransack-Q.

Not only this, but how they'll update all our other nanos. We have an alarming fraction of our toolset that dates back to AO's fledgling days, and the game has changed thricefold since then (SL mobs and humongous ACs, AI aliens and their tendency to swarm and drain nanopool, LE and the research system and Silverback). Draining Watchers in SL missions with 2298 ACs - and sometimes with 18000-25000 ACs - does diddly-squat.

As I've said several times over, it's the Trader nano document I'm looking forward to next.

[Xtremtech]

I'm really interested to see whether anything comes of the idea to be able to steal abilities from players/mobs. Unfortunately, given that it's likely to be quite a complex thing... I'd imagine it might make the trader nano doc one of the later ones to come out.

Trader balance is always a difficult thing. Because of the combo of debuff and buff in many of their tools, you end up with them being doubly powerful when they land... but also doubly disabling when they don't. It's fairly likely that even after the Nano Doc is out, there'll be a strong need to see how it all actually works in practice in Beta before we can really evaluate it well.

It's going to be an interesting time for Traders... which can be good... or could be difficult.

X

[Shareida]

Balancing the skill drains is going to be, bar none, one of the hardest parts of this entire rebalance. We rely on stacking drains not only in PVP, but in PVM to equip large QL weapons and to cast high-quality health plunders and Hagglers and other spiffy things. If we lose this, we lose offensive power, our support role in PVM is all but shattered, and combat becomes a monotonous affair of Deprive-Ransack-Q.

Not only this, but how they'll update all our other nanos. We have an alarming fraction of our toolset that dates back to AO's fledgling days, and the game has changed thricefold since then (SL mobs and humongous ACs, AI aliens and their tendency to swarm and drain nanopool, LE and the research system and Silverback). Draining Watchers in SL missions with 2298 ACs - and sometimes with 18000-25000 ACs - does diddly-squat.

As I've said several times over, it's the Trader nano document I'm looking forward to next.

I am quite certain there will be a new direction for traders coming. PvP and PvM wise. As of now, we are the fifth wheel on the wagon.

Don't get me wrong, Traders are useful, but by far not as much as a lot of people would like them to be.

[fakiiri]

Level lock for nanites would be a good start.
taking away 500 of opponents skills on t4 is abit too much.

[fixyourself]

hehe try tl2

[Jekonam]

Been reading a bit about the nerfing of certain professions and some balancing and I can say either I didnt find it or it has not been adressed but what are the plans with traders in pvp TL's 1-5? This profession is quite possibly the best pvp choice at tl's 1-3 then things start to level out a bit at 4/5 but are still a bit op. Well anyways if there is a thread about upcoming changes to the Trader Profession could somebody please leave the link here ?

You forgot your argument. You actually have to say why something is not right in your opinion.

[crattey]

You forgot your argument. You actually have to say why something is not right in your opinion.

Basic Balance Discussion forum etiquette dictates you don't deal with opinions, just stating facts. And stating something is fact is quite sufficient, no need to go and back it up.

[fixyourself]

You forgot your argument. You actually have to say why something is not right in your opinion.

What? I was just wanting to see what they were doing with the trader profession. And do I really have to state what i think is wrong with them in tl1-3 pvp?

[Lightingfist]

why not just give mps or some kinda proffession that can cast a team buff that puts a 30% resist traders drains a/b ac and stuff? and if someone with this buff gets drained the trader is hit with a small nano and hp dot

[Moonbolt]

because that is a nerf that would break the trader prof completly...
traders need to drain to live... simple as that.

[Saetos]

why not just give mps or some kinda proffession that can cast a team buff that puts a 30% resist traders drains a/b ac and stuff? and if someone with this buff gets drained the trader is hit with a small nano and hp dot

Our toolset is based around being substandard combatants until we drain, in which we become a great offensive and defensive force around the battlefield. 30%, even starting at level 1, and if it stacked with Doc's Vaccine nanos, would be way too hindering to our toolset.

You'd essentially be turning all PVP encounters into the 3-7th waves of Hollow Island, where you have to spam drains to even bypass the flat resist % before you did anything with nanoresist, and by the time anything landed (because remember at low levels, our drains are actually rather slow) we would be extraordinarily dead.

[Radia]

An odd idea, possibly inspired by it being Monday morning and I'm eating bacon (mmm bacon ... nvm).

Has the idea of active draining ever been discussed? Say, instead of launching two nanos at an opponent every 2 minutes or so, we had to launch a drain at an opponent every 10 seconds or so. Cut the duration down a lot (say to 10s duration), and tack on a health drain into the bargain (and please not a nerfed one that heals for less than heal-delta does ....).

Two things would have to happen to make this kind of idea work: first, we would require the nano resist on each drain to be cut. A lot. Without the drain in place, the trader would go splat (hence the idea would be balanced around interrupting the trader from draining, rather than alpha-ing the trader to death).

Second, the power of each drain would have to go up (again, the point is that the trader should be shifted towards active-defense based on draining, rather than passive drains that resist a lot (making pvp very random) that stay on the target for minutes). The target is drained more easily for the trader (so the target meets a level playing field versus the trader's defences). In addition, the trader would also have to get hp back from each drain (to have a chance to live long enough to force the opponent to pick a tactic different to alpha-ing).

Maybe its a silly idea - I just want to throw it out there. Might be the bacon talking. :P

[fixyourself]

I would just say I would like a way to either avoid drains,get rid of them quickly,not have them completly cripple me in pvp.
@saetos
The ammount a trader can drain up to is incredible now days. Maybe from a pvm point of view you guys need to drain to be considered viable but in pvp you guys just predrain and enter into godmode.

WTB Combat Virus Scanners
WTB Notum Repolser giveing a 25% resist to Drains(both lines, Giving up nanoskills should have a actual point.) This really only complies to tl 2 pvp.
WTB 3 second hardcap on cast time of drains.

those are just my ideas however terrible people may see them as.

[Anrecto]

From my experience with traders as enemies on TL1-5 they are quite annoying as opponent when draining you because you can only run away while drains running when you are a offensive prof. In TL1 you could find your skills reduced to nothing, in TL2-5 you will loose the ability to hit any twink doing a bit for defences.

When playing a Trader drains are usefull to reach massive dmg in TL1-2 but even there it is not easy beating Enfos. And for TL5 I could'nt see how to even come near to the dmg output of e.g. Enfos or Soldiers (not to speak about real dmg profs) without spending horrible amount of IP in specials (you should be able to reach nearly the level of an enfo when using the same equippment, but pay with a lot of IP spend dark blue).

The major advantage of Trader is the early abilty to equipp 6-Belt and high NCUs plus their broad tool set. In Pvp they nerf all other professions, but less to their own benefit.
In Pvp an army of trader seems to me something only usefull in TL1-2, at least from TL4 on I see Trader only useful as supporter to nerv the enemies, but you need other profs to finish your foes.

So from my point the profession itself needs only nerf when it comes to CL in TL1-3, but the negative effect of the drains needed to be changed drastically.

[Radia]

WTB Combat Virus Scanners

Um ... don't we already have them? Or do you mean ones which can be used while rooted? (Which is, frankly, a bug).

WTB Notum Repolser giveing a 25% resist to Drains(both lines, Giving up nanoskills should have a actual point.) This really only complies to tl 2 pvp.

I'm not a fan of Notum Repulsor in its current implementation; its too hit-and-miss (for both parties). For the target of the trader, it can feel like a complete waste of perks if it doesn't work - for the trader, it can feel like trying to drain a target with NR is like winning the lottery (but DOES still happen).

I don't like either (it smells of bad design) - a generic "this perk makes nanos affect you less" would be nice (say reduced root duration, reduced drain duration, etc).

WTB 3 second hardcap on cast time of drains.

This is the idea I like the least, to be honest. 3 second hard-cap casting time means almost a 100% effective increase in the total cast time; leaves the trader open to eating alphas (as we have little in the way of active defences, thats a huge downside); and would adversely affect PVM.

[ithacana]

I like the idea of making drains more 'active', i.e. the effect only lasts 5-10s, so the trader constantly has to use them to keep an opponent debuffed, sometimes forcing the trader to choose between drains/heals/cc.

[Moonbolt]

lol 3 sec hardcap on drains...
or 10 sec long drains....
stacking 3 drains to live vs alot of professions and they would last 1 secs each??
yeh right.

[Saetos]

I like the idea of making drains more 'active', i.e. the effect only lasts 5-10s, so the trader constantly has to use them to keep an opponent debuffed, sometimes forcing the trader to choose between drains/heals/cc.

Oh Christ in Heaven, no. Skill drains cut to 5 seconds would mean that we'd never stop casting anything, meaning we'd do almost zero damage. Remember we rely on these drains to do decent damage with high QL weapons and heal/nanoregen/buff to our fullest extent. I don't mind our skill drains being more "active", but speed of execution, nanocost, or both have to be reduced sharply, or else we're completely useless in PVM.