New Bureaucrat Nano Changes!

[crattey]

BTW, still can't see any cooldown effects on roots/snares, that "180% level / 45% NR check" root still exists...

It should be looked into and ofc, nerfed/dealt with.

Which sheet are you looking at? New roots and snares, on sheet 2 (for me, anway) has the new nanos, where all roots and snares have a seperate PvM/PvP function, and all have a cooldown.

The nano you're referring to, Greater Restrict Movement is gone and replaced by Engrossing Elocution, which has a 100% NR check and 10 sec cooldown.

I think you're looking at the sheet containing the old nanos. Nub <3

[-Klod-]

Yes, I am.

[Neista]

Our Red Tape lines are getting removed for a large part. We no longer have the WPD debuff. Our malaise got moved to the UBT line, meaning it no longer stacks with Docs and can no longer be used on a fair amount of mobs that are UBT resistant.

Basically, we'll no longer be debuffers in raids. Which is a rather harsh nerf, but one that was coming for a long time, considering the impact our init debuffs had there.

It just seems a little too harsh for my liking, without something concrete about what is going to even it out. We lost stun procs (ok i made my crat for soloing in the stun proc era and even i admit they were OP) and Means as good as admitted what he replaced them with didnt really work out right, now we lost the -init part of out toolkit, so far it seems our ability to solo is getting flushed down the loo and what Kintaii is saying about our pets seems a little too vauge to be called a promise.

Are you saying that your issue could be solved if Malaise were easier to acquire and use?

X

Almost, i'm saying it seems harsh to take an endgame LE era nano and nerf it down to a pre SL tl5 level of effectiveness. Also yeah, different issue tho: a lot of players sweated blood to get those APF boxes, i'd rather see a little swaparound done such as to remove Malaise of Zeal entirely, xfer its new stats to Malaise of Fervor and replace (in the nanobox) it with top nano of one of the new lines because in its current state i really cant see many new crats getting much enthusiasm up to do APF for a such an inferior nano. The reward needs to be worth the effort. (Btw props to FC for doing almost this exact thing with brain freeze/Carlita, i just think they should look at Malaise too)

[Neista]

Could we actually choose the mesh? So casting Carlo would be Carlita's skin + Carlo's stats and vice versa? :P.

This x100

[crattey]

It largely depends on how pets are going to get reworked and whether or not procs will function on charms. If both are done correctly, we should retain our status as proficient solo profession.

As for raids; we'll still be desirable. Bringing good DPS, some rather nice buffs and what remains of our CC toolset.

The nerf is a very major one, I agree. Keep in mind though, it was one of those things that was holding back improvements to our currently half-arsed toolset. If they intend to add functionality to CC, it can't be done if our init debuffs remain the same. All of it combined would make us insanely overpowered.

[Neista]

It largely depends on how pets are going to get reworked and whether or not procs will function on charms. If both are done correctly, we should retain our status as proficient solo profession.

As for raids; we'll still be desirable. Bringing good DPS, some rather nice buffs and what remains of our CC toolset.

The nerf is a very major one, I agree. Keep in mind though, it was one of those things that was holding back improvements to our currently half-arsed toolset. If they intend to add functionality to CC, it can't be done if our init debuffs remain the same. All of it combined would make us insanely overpowered.

i hear you, its just FC's record on fixing stuff i distrust...

[crattey]

i hear you, its just FC's record on fixing stuff i distrust...

They made up for a lot of that with the current balance docs changes. Basically, all they have to do now is implement the rest and not **** it up. 50/50, I'd say. More if Kintaii keeps having hang overs.

[Edta]

Well, the huge nuke damage and reduced debuffing capabilities seems like a shift towards NT and it would be a shame to take away such a variety. Pets and buffs and changes to NT's might result in enough variety (?). Crats definitely should have some debuffing capabilities in a lot of raids, but I don't know enough about crats or expansion raids to estimate this properly. RK bosses often enough have some UBT vulnerability, though it often is a bitch to land.

[ArienSky]

"Facilitate Coaction"
"Previously: Thorough Overhaul" That old (current) nano has: User Visual profession == Bureaucrat
"It will only work on the Droid, but you won't have to target the droid to heal it."

So.. if you are an Agent, you have your two MP pets, will this nano then heal both of them or none?

Currently pet heals works on all pets, hence the Bureaucrat pet heals actually are usefull even though Agents do not have Bureaucrat pets (we can heal our MP pets with them).

My point is: you need to consider Agents at an early stage when you take an existing nano and modify it extensively.
That MP combat pets might be the same pet-type as the Droid(combat), and the mezz pet is the Bodyguard(Mezz?) type.

Will Agents FPing Bureaucrats not be able to heal there heal pets anymore?
Alternatively the Bodyguard could be of Heal-Pet type..
or the 3rd way: that Agents can use Bureaucrat pets, so they have a use for the heals.
(Remember I and others already have Thorough Overhaul uploaded, so changing the nano crystal to "User Profession == Bureaucrat" will not help/be the solution.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

[MajorOutage]

Our malaise got moved to the UBT line, meaning it no longer stacks with Docs and can no longer be used on a fair amount of mobs that are UBT resistant.

To my knowledge, they have always been in the same line. UBT and Zeal have the same stacking order...I fight docs over it all the time.

[Phargus]

To my knowledge, they have always been in the same line. UBT and Zeal have the same stacking order...I fight docs over it all the time.

It's i both the init debuff and dmg debuff lines atm. That's why it ignores init debuff resistances on mobs. But yeah ubt and malaise has never stacked.

[crattey]

Sorry, my bad, got mixed up.

It was moved to the UBT line, meaning it now suffers from UBT resistances, unlike before.

[erozc]

Currently pet heals works on all pets, hence the Bureaucrat pet heals actually are usefull even though Agents do not have Bureaucrat pets (we can heal our MP pets with them).

My point is: you need to consider Agents at an early stage when you take an existing nano and modify it extensively.
That MP combat pets might be the same pet-type as the Droid(combat), and the mezz pet is the Bodyguard(Mezz?) type.

Will Agents FPing Bureaucrats not be able to heal there heal pets anymore?

Really, you must be the only one I ever heard using FP crat as an agent to heal MP pets.

[Boltgun]

Sorry, my bad, got mixed up.

It was moved to the UBT line, meaning it now suffers from UBT resistances, unlike before.

Looking at the enf and crat docs, I have the feeling that FC is trying to remove professions abilities to suck challenge out of the game. That's quite a kick in the init debuff but I hope that the pet procs will make the debuffing job still valid.

Now if we can see the doc and sold docs, we'll have an idea how hard the game is... I mean how hard at all since last 12 man I was in was done with in 5 minutes.

[crattey]

Looking at the enf and crat docs, I have the feeling that FC is trying to remove professions abilities to suck challenge out of the game. That's quite a kick in the init debuff but I hope that the pet procs will make the debuffing job still valid.

Now if we can see the doc and sold docs, we'll have an idea how hard the game is... I mean how hard at all since last 12 man I was in was done with in 5 minutes.

Well, it's similar to stun procs, really. We have something so useful/powerful that it's holding back any improvements in the rest of our toolset.

Nerf it to the ground and rework it, and you open up all kinds of new options. They messed up with the stun procs, by simple deleting them pretty much, without returning anything.

This time 'round, we get procs for pets, new nukes, customizable speeches, functional roots/snares, etc.

So yeah, while the nerf is probably one of the biggest in years, I think all in all I'll the profession better.

[bitnykk]

-2564 (...) -1550

I love you Mountaingoat, you're so sexy and handsome and pretty and I love you!

failed crattey !

ok, back to seriousness :

Red Tape (...) the WPD debuff (...) malaise got moved to the UBT line (...) we'll no longer be debuffers in raids

if i read well, redtape line is simplified to 2 debuff instead of 5 nowadays, but on 2nd check it's true these debuffs won't be stackable, so there is a debuff init loss. my mistake.
on the contrary, you're mistaken on WPD : its debuffed init got kinda SHIFTED to malaise line, wich is gaining +15-20% or so (e.g. : fervor is going from -725 to -900, zeal from -1035 to -1200).
in the end, if Mountaingoat's calculations is right, i admit i was wrong thinking the debuffs needed to be taken downer even, but i still think new nukes are giving to much DD.

beside this, how can you be so sure the linechange to "Init debuffs: 186" will make ALL UBT-resistant bosses reject ALL malaise attempts ? we have any 100% certainty yet ?
imo, you're going too fast in concluding crat won't be a debuffing profession anymore ...

[Phargus]

beside this, how can you be so sure the linechange to "Init debuffs: 186" will make ALL UBT-resistant bosses reject ALL malaise attempts ? we have any 100% certainty yet ?
imo, you're going too fast in concluding crat won't be a debuffing profession anymore ...

Bosses don't have immunities to specific nanoprograms, they have immunities to nano lines. If a boss is immune to one nanoprogram in a line it's immune to all nanoprograms in a line.

Of course FC might change the way that works, but it seems highly unlikely...

[crattey]

On the new nukes; they will give more DD than current nukes if you go all out caster. Keep in mind however, that in order to use the new nukes, you'll have to ditch the currently favoured pistol setup. Their nanocost is harsh enough to rule out both effective nuking and pistol use at the same time. It simply can't be done. Not enough IP to max everything out. Pistol equipment rules out nano-equipment and vice versa.

It's too soon to compare current DPS to the proposed new DPS. We have yet to see the changes to pets, so who knows.

As for the init debuffs, I'm fairly certain they'll be pointless on UBT bosses. They currently land only because they are in a different line. Basically, anywhere were UBT can't be used, the new malaise can't be used. (p.s. the nuke debuff hasn't been moved to malaise. The nuke has 600 and can be landed on anything. The new malaise has +165 and can't be landed on UBT-resistant mobs)

All in all, I don't think it's incorrect to state that we'll no longer be a init debuffer in high end encounters. Depending on whether or not we can see which of the random rolls from Tape has landed, we'll be debuffing, like Mountaingoat said, 0 to -350. Not something that will be considered to be a 'must have'.

But again, I don't mind. Crats are still useful anywhere. We just won't be first on everyone's list anymore.

[-Klod-]

All in all, I don't think it's incorrect to state that we'll no longer be a init debuffer in high end encounters. Depending on whether or not we can see which of the random rolls from Tape has landed, we'll be debuffing, like Mountaingoat said, 0 to -350. Not something that will be considered to be a 'must have'.

But again, I don't mind. Crats are still useful anywhere. We just won't be first on everyone's list anymore.

TBH, debuffing boss mobs down to 1 hit per, what, 5 minutes, with crat init debuffs was seriously wrong, with all the PvM encounters being "2-3 persons doable" lately anyways.

We still didn't see Doctor changes and MP changes. They also have init debuffs in their toolset (stackable with each other), which are probably going to get changed into something useful so, combination of these 3 professions might bring some diversity into teams, compared to current "doc + crat + enf + soldier" (or worse) cases.

[crattey]

Well, if the MP debuffs remain in their current line, atleast you won't get booted off a team for actually casting them Depending on how they get chaged, MPs might actually become something more than:

'uh, so yeah, I have a friend.. an MP... do you guys mind if he tags along? I know he just takes up a loot slot.. but.. but.. please?'