Mongo Rage

[Burgly]

Because this whole games revolves around mass pvp and duels don't exist. And every evade profession is a crat?

Most other profs got means to counter MR, u guys were complaning that crats only def were evades and MR counterd that, well aoe fear counters MR again, and dont even pretend that some1 MR perks u in a duel, because u will have cib up if ur fighting some1 u think got MR, and the more likely scenario is that he wont perk u with cib up, but if u wanna be super cautious u could watch for MR, then root and back up, or u could stun nano, then dtb, or u could watch for when the person isnt swining regular hits anymore and press dtb because thats most likely when his MR is uploading (further explanation, crat debuffs f**ks up MR upload, takes an extra 5s to use MR after its pressed because it uploads a nano which is slowd by init debuffs).

Oh shii, i wasn't supposed to get involved in this thread again :S oh well, guess i got sucked back in.

NERF MR!

[Blackcradle]

Stuff...

Of course MR doesn't kill everyone all the time. There are a million factors in Pvp like you said. But not every profession has something that can counter it. My trader can sometimes stop or at least delay the inevitable with SS, but if that's down and it's 1v1 and I'm getting perked I'm screwed. Same could be said for MPs except that they have no counter at all to it. So yes, like you said it doesn't always kill you. But the fact is more often than not, it does. Or why would so many, and yes there are lots despite what people on forums claim, use it? Because yes, it is that effective. The reason I'm so fervent here is because Means and Co. are taking great strides to improve this game and it's PvP, which is imo, the most fun part of AO. GTH, LE nukes, AS, are all being changed... so why would this 1 GLARING oversight remain. MR is debatebly Sill's dumbest addition... when one breed defines how entire classes, yes entire classes, are played something is wrong. AO has always been about diversity... and more often than not lately you hear people whine about FC pushing people in certain directions. Well one breed have massive advantages over another breed for anyone with half-decent perks and essentially no downsides makes no sense. There's a reason you see all these Atrox shades/agents/fixers around, because it's that imbalanced that even for the breeds that supposedly have affinities for certain classes MR far outweighs any advantage.

I still manage to miss full auto and burst and even not be able to perk people in a completely endgame soldier equip with MR up when I did have it perked.

What's wrong with that? Maybe you're not supposed to hit them all the time? Out of curiousity is this the same 'endgame' soldier you have with low hp in a "defensive setup" who gets killed in less than 10 seconds by all Engis?

[Weltall]

I still manage to miss full auto and burst and even not be able to perk people in a completely endgame soldier equip with MR up when I did have it perked.

And i've used MR plenty of times against MA's/crats/fixers/shades who were still unperkable after using it. It really isnt that OP. Lower evade professions AAD/evades and take MR away. Sure.

Yeah and lower soldier's reflects and make them killable during AMS and you can take away NSD.

And you act like it's oh so necessary to kill evade profs with it get real. Lower evade prof's evades/AAD and you'll just have little instasplat gimps running around.

Evades are fine and there are enough ways around them, except for evades on advies who just have too much defenses in the first place.

[Burgly]

There's a reason you see all these Atrox shades/agents/fixers around, because it's that imbalanced that even for the breeds that supposedly have affinities for certain classes MR far outweighs any advantage.

Tbh, i think this is more of a rk 1 thing, sure there are alot of trox shades on rk 2, but theres maybe 1 or 2 active trox agents and no active pvping trox fixers here. Maybe thats why we dont feel like its a big deal, because theres very few of them. And we (atleast i) try to find counters to MR, if i duel some1 and he beats me with MR, i wont stop until i've found a counter and won, maybe not every1 is like that, it is easier to post on the forums afterall.

[Obtena]

But not every profession has something that can counter it.

Right, still not a reason to nerf anything TBH. Not everything in AO needs to have a counter. If they do, even less reason to nerf MR. I think it's pretty funny that you believe it's worth mentioning that many people use MR because it's effective. That goes without saying doesn't it? That's the way PVP tools should all work. Effective and useful? I mean, what would the point of putting MR on your toolbar if you still couldn't hit someone after using it? You wouldn't. If you can't count on it to do what it's intended to do, it's a rather stupid perk if you ask me. I guess I wouldn't be the only one to agree with that, considering that FC plans on making it better by removing the aftereffects.

[Blackcradle]

That single reason alone? Alright, maybe not. Anyone with a slight grasp on this game knows there are many more.

[Obtena]

That single reason alone? Alright, maybe not. Anyone with a slight grasp on this game knows there are many more.

I haven't read anything here that convinces me that MR needs some drastic nerf. You can come up with all the reasons you want, but no nerf is required, primarily because there are ways to counter it and deal with it in-game. If there isn't, that's not unreasonable either ... it's probably intended or at least gives cause for those profs to make their requests for defense. Not all profs need counters to everything anyways, otherwise FC should remove all characters except for Ranged, Trox Advy's. In the end, MR does what it's supposed to do and isn't the IWIN button you all claim it is. It's powerful? Yup. It's great against evades profs? Yup. Is that intended? One would have to be a pretty dense moron to think it isn't or shouldn't. I can't think of a reason why it's unreasonable that people use it effectively in PVP. That's what it's for.

[Marinegent]

What's wrong with that? Maybe you're not supposed to hit them all the time? Out of curiousity is this the same 'endgame' soldier you have with low hp in a "defensive setup" who gets killed in less than 10 seconds by all Engis?

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. But you are saying it needs to be nerfed when in reality it doesnt.


edit: though i will say that with 4.8k attack rating, missing full auto still somehow feels.. off..

[Varalea]

lets face it in 1on1 encounters, since everything else is stupid for comparison of pvp situations, since 2vs1 situation usually has a certain ending...
advy? lots of profs can perk them without mr, during limber, so no discussion acutally... + they have coon, heals...
crat? theyve got 2 possibilites to escape mr alpha, not even including motr, so... if a crat cant kill someone in 7:29 minutes or learn to root some melee prof he/she should play some different profession imo...
fixer? im actually not sure about those static evades, but its only been a few times i have been able to perk endgame fixers with ~4.8k ar, so, yellow warning "MONGO RAGE", motr, lots of warnings and opportunities to escape...
ma? its more a matter of perk timing in 1on1 than anything else, imho its like a 50:50 chance, which doesnt exactly make that perk (mr) overpowered....
shades? my usual encounters kind of showed me, its a question of who sees who first, which is still not unfair, just makes it exciting
im not even counting duels which i usually lose vs good shades..
trader? this is probably the only professions i really find this perk truly (over)powered, BUT every trader, with some pvp experience knows when to press absorb, shielding or shutdown skills... so he got like 3 options to survive and every trader managed to survive this so far
all other professions should be perkable without mr anyway
im not counting shield mp of course, which are kind of silly...
this is all from the from the view of a 220 keeper or shade with endgame equip

id rather say the combination of 1 or 2 profs + mongorage makes something overpowered, but not mongorage itself... for example:
enforce 1hb/1he alpha... stunning, debuffing inits and huge damage+challenger(proc+nano+mr)?!
maybe fixer alpha? not sure about that, may be just because i dont like them :P

still i want to add some facts, some ppl may not have noticed yet...
you need 10 alienperks to use mongorage, which on some professions is a very large sacrifice in def, static ar or some other kind, just for the occasional "gank" which is not even certain

1st of all, it doesnt add 3k ar to alienperks, lol
2nd it only lasts 10 seconds... which makes it possible to use rootgrafts, motr, fear, coon w/e to avoid it
there is also no way of missing its execution, since there is a big yellow text "mongo rage" or its just someone using a blind/blindring on you, which makes it easily predictable, that he/she is using mongorage
also a lot of professions have stacking perks, where 10seconds may not even be enough to use them all/the top ones, like soldier
i just want to add, that ive met many evade professions, such as fixers, crats, shades, which clearly understood how to use their evadeperks in order to avoid mr alpha, though me being in sneak
so i guess its not a matter of wrong balance (in general, as mentioned before this perk may be very powerful in certain situations but its not an i-win button) but more a matter of skill of the opponent
before ppl start crying, i just want to mention, ive also played "the other side", meaning i also have a 220ma, occasionally getting ganked by some troxshade or something
greetings

[Hellrule]

*stuff*

1st of all, it doesnt add 3k ar to alienperks, lol
2nd it only lasts 10 seconds... which makes it possible to use rootgrafts, motr, fear, coon w/e to avoid it
there is also no way of missing its execution, since there is a big yellow text "mongo rage" or its just someone using a blind/blindring on you, which makes it easily predictable, that he/she is using mongorage
also a lot of professions have stacking perks, where 10seconds may not even be enough to use them all/the top ones, like soldier
i just want to add, that ive met many evade professions, such as fixers, crats, shades, which clearly understood how to use their evadeperks in order to avoid mr alpha, though me being in sneak
so i guess its not a matter of wrong balance (in general, as mentioned before this perk may be very powerful in certain situations but its not an i-win button) but more a matter of skill of the opponent
before ppl start crying, i just want to mention, ive also played "the other side", meaning i also have a 220ma, occasionally getting ganked by some troxshade or something
greetings

If you know the mechanics behind AI perks, you would know that is does.
AR + AAO = perk skill for many AI perks, so a +1500 ar would be your static ar +1500 which would make your new ar. then your new ar + your total aao in your setup.

also your effect? it can easily be negated in a duel with a blind, or other effects. some people purposely use MoR to hide the fact they used MR.

"blah blah i wasted 10 perks so MR is balanced!" waste implies useless. a +1500 perk is far from useless. so that argument is moot.

all this mindless paper pvp of what you can do to negate MR with no knowledge of how it's used

PVPing with MR
1) Remove medsuit ( not necesssary)
2) Buy some shop buyable imps
3) Buff? If you have the nano pool maybe
4) Hit MR out of sight
5) 1234567890
6) Hide in BY for 15 minutes or grid out.
7) Repeat as often as possible

Hit your evade buff! Use a root! Use a fear! Run for dear life!
Que'd perks = a hit perk.

thanks for playing the same game I do.

[Lisergia]

My only problem with MR is, that its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger than other breed perks.
And that its available to enfs...

[agentwolve]

PVPing with MR
1) Remove medsuit ( not necesssary)
2) Buy some shop buyable imps
3) Buff? If you have the nano pool maybe
4) Hit MR out of sight
5) 1234567890
6) Hide in BY for 15 minutes or grid out.
7) Repeat as often as possible

Hit your evade buff! Use a root! Use a fear! Run for dear life!
Que'd perks = a hit perk.

thanks for playing the same game I do.

people seem to convienantly forget you can queue up perks after MR is used, i wonder why ...

[Varalea]

crappy blabla

you better read my post before writing your answer, since you clearly did not or are not capable of doing so...
if you, as a crat, with so many crowdcontrol options, cant prevent someone from queuing up perks on you, maybe ask a good crat then, cyrola for example

i agree on the fact, that it is much stronger than any of the other breedperks, but this will change "soon(tm)"

[Obtena]

all this mindless paper pvp of what you can do to negate MR with no knowledge of how it's used

You don't need a PhD to know how MR is used . I don't think it's unreasonable for people to speculate how a single perk that gives +1500 AAO for a short time is used, unless they are complete idiots.

[Blackcradle]

Have to love how all the MR-huggers in this thread jump so quickly to arms with how many counters there are to MR, and how every class or anyone with any sense can avoid it. Because you know all these methods of avoidance are always up all the time and stuff. Regardless of if they were or not, the point is MR is still pro-active and defending against it is reactive, and thus will always be at a disadvantage already. However, for an example lets say someone does successfully counter an MR gank and kill or escape the ganker. Then they a minute later they run into yet another person with MR. Or god forbid, what if said profession actually had to use their toolset against ANYONE ELSE without MR to survive other encounters? It's okay if they get wtf-ganked then right? Of course the funniest part about all this, is that yes there are ways of countering MR, no one, myself included, in this thread is denying that; however just the mere fact alone that everyone and their mother has to work so hard just to avoid ONE gank from ONE atrox from spending 10 perks and pressing one button should tell you something is wrong...

That's not even factoring in that yes, good pvp-ers can sometimes counter MR, but conversely all the MR people can't find good ways to use MR and overcome the 'countless' ways MR can be avoided? It's a two way street. And someone mentioned that it will change soon... from the documentation we've seen about breed perks so far it looks just as strong if not stronger than before, given once Mongo Fury is up, who knows how long a window you'll have to use it. It could be the entire duration... but that is all speculation anyway. The one certain thing is that no breed, or breed perk should have this massive of an advantage over all the others. And sorry if you're arguing MR doesn't have a massive advantage over all other breed perks, you're truly deluded.

[Hellrule]

you better read my post before writing your answer, since you clearly did not or are not capable of doing so...
if you, as a crat, with so many crowdcontrol options, cant prevent someone from queuing up perks on you, maybe ask a good crat then, cyrola for example

i agree on the fact, that it is much stronger than any of the other breedperks, but this will change "soon(tm)"

Teach me how to avoid que'd up perks plsaw.

[Obtena]

That's not even factoring in that yes, good pvp-ers can sometimes counter MR, but conversely all the MR people can't find good ways to use MR and overcome the 'countless' ways MR can be avoided? It's a two way street. .

Right, which is where experience and skill comes into play when PVPing in AO. Really what i'm reading from you is that it's unfair that good PVPers know how to use their tools more effectively than bad ones and so those effective tools need a nerf? YEAH OK. maybe that's an extreme interpretation of your position, but it's clear that's not an MR problem.

The one certain thing is that no breed, or breed perk should have this massive of an advantage over all the others.

That's true. That's why there is a re-balance where other breed perks are being reworked and hopefully, breed advantages and disadvantages shine through alot more.

[Marinegent]

a bunch of what if situations

Come on dude. If you are going to play that game i can "WHAT IF HE HAD POCKET DOC?"

There are counters to MR and you only even need to use it against 5-6 professions in-game right now. The 5-6 would be advy,fixer,shade,crat,MA and sometimes trader (depends if drained or not).

Advys can press coon.
Fixers are still unperkable.
Shades can be kind of SOL if perked, ill give them that. But if they saved coon or CIB they should still survive.
I have trouble landing MR perks on Crats still, so i don't think crats have a whole lot to worry about most of the time. But if all their perk defenses are down, sure. Most people die without having any defenses up anyway though.
MA is still unperkable if CIB is up, but if in limber and with no CIB, MA's can have a tough time.


Shades and MA's are really the only 2 professions MR is used against, that have any real room to talk about the mechanics of MR. And even then them just having CIB up can prevent it.

[MassDebater]

The problem with MR is it allows you to go absolutely full out def setup, while still having the MR to perk just about anyone.

[Notcrattey]

It's just a ridiculous stat boost; the problem being is there is only one so either make more than one or lower the ridiculous one.

And just because there are counters, means it's not extremely if not over powered? Whatever you say!