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Thread: Rebalancing making a hard push for teaming over solo?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    I doubt that the changes made are about nerfing soloing in order to promote teaming. They're more about the general balance changes that are designed to balance the professions against each other.
    Actually Kintaii did say something like "we are not discouraging soloing we are encouraging teaming".

  2. #42
    I don't see the difference. If 'balancing' gives a more teamed-focused toolset for each prof, well what can you say ... this is an MMO.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    I don't see the difference. If 'balancing' gives a more teamed-focused toolset for each prof, well what can you say ... this is an MMO.
    With the little exception that there's not enough people playing to actually TEAM for the team content...

    A few years ago, making PVM harder and encouraging people to team more would have been a great idea. But now, when even as a 220 crat it is sometimes difficult to get a worthwhile Inferno team (a team that can complete the mission faster than i can do if i'm doing it dual logged with my engi) together in a reasonable time. During the hours i play, it often takes more than 45 minutes to make the team. A lot longer if you don't have the puller.

    Ofc, theres loads of 160-190 peeps in lft for Inf at any given time, but if you pick more than one of those, they actually start to slow the tream down a lot simply by dying atleast a few times during the mission.

    Imo, FC should FIRST release the new engine, and start advertising. THEN, if the population starts to grow, they can start swinging the nerfbat and make the content harder and require more people.

    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    I'm interested in the basic premise here: That FC is trying to encourage more PvM teaming with the announced balance changes.

    Where's the evidence for this? Which changes are designed to encourage PvM teaming and push people away from solo?

    X
    Well, enfo's ability to tank is already reduced in the new enf nano doc's. Crats are losing init debuffs. Doctor's healing capability is going to get nerfed (yup, we haven't seen the documents about doctors yet, but they've said numerous times that this will happen). I think thats enough proof that they indeed are going to force us for more teaming. And not only that, but they actually force us to make larger teams, because of nerfed healing and tanking abilities.

    I really like teaming myself, and i think it's good to encourage teaming. BUT, it's not good to FORCE us to team when there is not enough people around to team with. (I'm not sure how the situation is at lower levels at the moment since for the last six months i've only been playing my tl7's, but last time i checked there was only kite/pocket teams and unneccessary drama in ely, and regular leveling teams were not happening).

    Another issue is the static loot system that encourages people to do raids/instances with as few people as possibly. If only the loot system was made similar to the classic RK missions where the more people you have in team, the more items you get as reward. That would actually make it easier to get teams going for raids and instances since that way you don't always need to pick the TOP3 professions, and everyone would still most likely walk out from the encounter with something useful, like now happens when you do the raids with 2-4 people.
    Aeliniyah Opifex Doc | Venkula Solitus Doc | Rohtoiivari Trox Doc | Yutheron Solitus Trader Ianamura NM Crat
    Technigyro Trox Enfo | Gizmoplex Trox Keeper | Icarya Opi MA | Vinetto Opifex Shade | Retku Solitus Engineer
    Geraplex Trox Sold | Tuulispaa Opifex Fixer | Wertion Solitus MP | Kemoplex Trox MA
    And a fleet of other alts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    With the little exception that there's not enough people playing to actually TEAM for the team content...
    UM HUM, except that is nonsense for being sensational. There are teams, just maybe not the ones you are used to. I get teams all the time, simply because I got a good org and friends. PUG is the worst way to get teams, but you can still do it. Are you playing on DNW or something? Live in Indonesia? I dunno. Teams are there.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    UM HUM, except that is nonsense for being sensational. There are teams, just maybe not the ones you are used to. I get teams all the time, simply because I got a good org and friends. PUG is the worst way to get teams, but you can still do it. Are you playing on DNW or something? Live in Indonesia? I dunno. Teams are there.
    Well... a few years ago everyone was doing things with PUG's and that was fun. Atleast i thought it was fun. My org is a small one, that formed around a bunch of IRL friends. It's my home, and i'm not moving to another. Most of the times it's possible to get one or two guys from org or friends, but rarely a full team. I'm mostly online during euro night time (00-04 GMT or something). RK1 is the server i'm on. I really don't see as much teaming happening in here as you make it sound. I'm not saying it's impossible either.

    For a new player, PUG's are also pretty much the only way to meet people and make contacts. Not all of us are veterans you know... (And tbh, 90% of the people in my friends list have already quit playing AO and i have a feeling i'm going to follow them soon).

    One more thing: My concern is not for the current situation in the servers. My concern is what will happen when these new changes hit live. Because you must admit that the playerbase IS low. Now if you make things harder, and force people to make bigger teams for raids, do you really think that raids (and leveling teams) would still be easy to get going?
    Aeliniyah Opifex Doc | Venkula Solitus Doc | Rohtoiivari Trox Doc | Yutheron Solitus Trader Ianamura NM Crat
    Technigyro Trox Enfo | Gizmoplex Trox Keeper | Icarya Opi MA | Vinetto Opifex Shade | Retku Solitus Engineer
    Geraplex Trox Sold | Tuulispaa Opifex Fixer | Wertion Solitus MP | Kemoplex Trox MA
    And a fleet of other alts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  6. #46
    I don't see any evidence that things will be harder. I mean, was the game SO broken now that no one could do anything without a crat? I don't think so.

    And most certianly, leveling is way easier than it has ever been, so I'm not listening to that nonsense. Were you even around when you had to wait on lists to get a leveling spot in adonis and inferno? and farm pathetic amounts of faction from the SL sided bosses? Please don't tell us how hard it is to level, especially when there are daily missions for that.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 1st, 2010 at 15:59:05.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    With the little exception that there's not enough people playing to actually TEAM for the team content...

    A few years ago, making PVM harder and encouraging people to team more would have been a great idea. But now, when even as a 220 crat it is sometimes difficult to get a worthwhile Inferno team (a team that can complete the mission faster than i can do if i'm doing it dual logged with my engi) together in a reasonable time. During the hours i play, it often takes more than 45 minutes to make the team. A lot longer if you don't have the puller.
    Stop avoiding those MPs and keepers out there, on the LFT... Oh, wait. I guess it's too late for that now.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Now a team is pretty much always completely silent and people seem to just barely tolerate eachother's presence.
    because everything is just that boringly easy.
    kill heckler and another and another and another,
    in misisons, kill rafter, kill mortiig, kill malah, everything is the same.
    you dont need to slow down to think about mobs special abilities because there isnt anything you would notice,
    in pande its get all confused when caller gets told the killing order, and then someone says, "it doesnt matter, we dont need killing order" witch is true.. any of mobs are not giving us any challenge at all. its all just boring grind.

    zods, subjucators are just big deformed leets that gives as much challenge as ones in backyard.

    we all can play this game while in trance, half asleep, watching tv, playing other game..
    Last edited by Otinsainpas; Oct 1st, 2010 at 16:38:03.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  9. #49
    This is what Kintaii Said

    From Kintaii

    In this process of balancing and normalizing profession toolsets/stats/abilities one of our primary goals is to make the PvM aspect of our game more engaging for players of all levels while making the individual professions of AO feel as though they can actively contribute to a team-based environment, something that a lot of our current classes lack in many ways. That said, our goal isn't to destroy the soloing aspect of the game either, not in the slightest; as bitnykk put it over in the Balance Discussion forum, our goal isn't to provide "less solo action" but "more team action". We don't want to destroy that aspect of our game, simply enhance it, and with the changes that Genele and crew have been working on I think we're working very solidly towards that goal.
    That's very clearly saying that they don't want to nerf or destroy soloing, but they do want to encourage teaming. So, as I said, it's unlikely that they want to nerf soloing. If soloing is nerfed a bit, then it's a side-effect rather than a goal.

    Well, enfo's ability to tank is already reduced in the new enf nano doc's. Crats are losing init debuffs. Doctor's healing capability is going to get nerfed (yup, we haven't seen the documents about doctors yet, but they've said numerous times that this will happen). I think thats enough proof that they indeed are going to force us for more teaming. And not only that, but they actually force us to make larger teams, because of nerfed healing and tanking abilities.
    Enfs ability to tank only affects teaming - it doesn't nerf soloing, or do you think that Enfs still need to hold aggro when they're soloing?

    Crats init debuffs are still there for soloists. Even in most levelling teams they're still there and immensely useful.

    There's no pressure to form larger teams because of these changes.... in fact, Enf taunts being less strong, means that smaller teams are actually better - because the Enf will have less competition from team mates, doc heals will be more able to deal with smaller team damage, crat init buffs will be all the more important etc etc

    Nothing in there gives any nerf to soloing really - except the possible reduction in doc healing... and docs are OP soloing at the moment anyway (if slow). It's about profession and team balance, not nerfing soloing.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Oct 1st, 2010 at 16:59:32.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    This is what Kintaii Said

    There's no pressure to form larger teams because of these changes.... in fact, Enf taunts being less strong, means that smaller teams are actually better - because the Enf will have less competition from team mates, doc heals will be more able to deal with smaller team damage, crat init buffs will be all the more important etc etc

    Nothing in there gives any nerf to soloing really - except the possible reduction in doc healing... and docs are OP soloing at the moment anyway (if slow). It's about profession and team balance, not nerfing soloing.

    X
    Well, nerfing enf's tanking ability makes it neccessary to build bigger teams and nerfing healing ability means you gotta get more than one healer. Enf's cant spam layers either, so they will need a lot more healing, while doc's are going to have more difficulties providing it. Also, if those proposed crat changes go live, Crats don't have ANY init debuffs left worth using. UBT is better than malaise, and there's always doc in a team where there are ubt worthy mobs around. OK, malaise is still useful when soloing inf dynas etc, but not much else. New red tapes are a bad joke.
    Aeliniyah Opifex Doc | Venkula Solitus Doc | Rohtoiivari Trox Doc | Yutheron Solitus Trader Ianamura NM Crat
    Technigyro Trox Enfo | Gizmoplex Trox Keeper | Icarya Opi MA | Vinetto Opifex Shade | Retku Solitus Engineer
    Geraplex Trox Sold | Tuulispaa Opifex Fixer | Wertion Solitus MP | Kemoplex Trox MA
    And a fleet of other alts...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  11. #51
    I'd have to disagree with pretty much all of that... but there you go. Seems you can have different points of view on these things, eh?

    X

  12. #52
    Its been said for ages now: Everyone prefers their own farts.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  13. #53
    also cannot forget about fixer hots and roots/snares, both are getting gimped a good bit.
    Limdul - Shade / Sammybear - Doctor / Swakhammer - Enforcer / Puriel - Fixer / Kalutika - Nano Technician / Tengen - Adventurer

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    UM HUM, except that is nonsense for being sensational. There are teams, just maybe not the ones you are used to. I get teams all the time, simply because I got a good org and friends. PUG is the worst way to get teams, but you can still do it. Are you playing on DNW or something? Live in Indonesia? I dunno. Teams are there.
    You are never online, how would you know?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    Well, nerfing enf's tanking ability makes it neccessary to build bigger teams and nerfing healing ability means you gotta get more than one healer. Enf's cant spam layers either, so they will need a lot more healing, while doc's are going to have more difficulties providing it. Also, if those proposed crat changes go live, Crats don't have ANY init debuffs left worth using. UBT is better than malaise, and there's always doc in a team where there are ubt worthy mobs around. OK, malaise is still useful when soloing inf dynas etc, but not much else. New red tapes are a bad joke.
    Nonsense ... Enfo's ability to tank and taunt has nothing to do with team size. Team size won't make up for a bad tank, unless the second enfo can tank better. Good enfos can and still will spam layers and mongo, which heals for more per second than the mongo we have now. So much wrong information in your post.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 1st, 2010 at 18:39:44.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocene View Post
    You are never online, how would you know?
    Really? Nice, I should tell my "Dr Jekyll" side to play more often.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Stop avoiding those MPs and keepers out there, on the LFT... Oh, wait. I guess it's too late for that now.
    MPs? ingame? HA!
    Quote Originally Posted by Otinsainpas View Post
    we all can play this game while in trance, half asleep, watching tv, playing other game..
    I do it while trolling the forums, of course.

  18. #58
    All these 220s and other near 220s complaining that it's too easy. Well duh, your end-game, if you can't steam roll most of the content your seriously gimp. How quickly they forget how hard it was trying to get from level 149 to 150 solo. This is bull, they just want to make it harder for future players to reach 220 and protect thier status as end game top of the heap toons.
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.
    New content does not have to make old content obsolete.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by nikkydkhick View Post
    All these 220s and other near 220s complaining that it's too easy. Well duh, your end-game, if you can't steam roll most of the content your seriously gimp. How quickly they forget how hard it was trying to get from level 149 to 150 solo. This is bull, they just want to make it harder for future players to reach 220 and protect thier status as end game top of the heap toons.
    Agreed, it's also easy to say, ask org members for help, well, a lot of people are either in small orgs, or in orgs without many high-levels.

    What is new blood going to do? Ask org members, they've got none, are these amazing super-220s orgs willing to take level 50+? Don't think so.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocene View Post
    Agreed, it's also easy to say, ask org members for help, well, a lot of people are either in small orgs, or in orgs without many high-levels.

    What is new blood going to do? Ask org members, they've got none, are these amazing super-220s orgs willing to take level 50+? Don't think so.
    This...
    Mekhdoc 220/27/70 Equip | Mekh 220/28/67 Equip | Shadesch 220/21/70 Equip
    Mekhkeeper 220/22/70 Equip | Roflmao 220/15/50 | Fixyaself 200/23/64 Equip

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