Aimed shot: what should it be?

[Ocene]

I never said so. AS >pistol< can very well be removed.


And thats bull****.

Oh yes? Let me guess, you have an evade prof?

lol get real. AS is fine as it is.

[Lisergia]

Oh yes? Let me guess, you have an evade prof?

lol get real. AS is fine as it is.

And you got neither a evade prof nor a prof that uses as pistol right?

[Ocene]

And you got neither a evade prof nor a prof that uses as pistol right?

Wrong.
I have 3 evade profs, 2 of which are AI30 and maxed out in terms of gear.

AS is fine. AAD is completely OP lol.

[Gora]

Made it into the 40's before the train went off the tracks

The only Agent I have is a bufftoon, and I don't PvP so my opinion is both based in ignorance and unclouded by prejudice.

I went looking for a definition of the AS skill and found this:

In PvE, the target you are trying to fire on needs to be unaware of your pressence, which ussualy requires the sniper to be far off from the target and/or use the concealment skill. In PvP, Aimed Shot automaticaly hits. The damage on Aimed Shot ignores Armor, ignores dodge chance, and deals the maximum damage of the weapon, augmented by a multiplier. The multiplier is determined by your aimed shot skill divided by 95. The maximum Damage that can be dealt by a Aimed shot is 13K.[sic]

The PvM version seemed fine, but the PvP bit shocked me; I presume this skill definition is accurate (or at least still relevant).

Using the practical sights on a weapon requires steady hands and smooth trigger-pull. Using a scope creates an even slower process. I think there should be a 5ish-second attack time for this skill and moving or being hit should cancel the attack with no cooldown. If the skill goes off as the attacker moves or is being hit (to within server sync) then it's a miss with a <insert here> cooldown. /shrug

I don't believe that pistols should have an AS component. +crit makes more sense to me.

As a closing thought it's fair to say that AS is not the only change that will happen during the rebalance, so folks who say "don't change this thing cuz that's the thing that's really broken" make valid points but hopefully they think about the butterfly effect. Hopefully FC does too.

Best,
Gora

[erozc]

The only Agent I have is a bufftoon, and I don't PvP so my opinion is both based in ignorance and unclouded by prejudice.

This means you have never experienced the aforementioned "19 misses out of 20" PvP encounter, which is very common. I don't care if they change the name of "Aimed shot" to "Nanobot shot" to get away of RP arguments, but without an attack that ignores defensive checks, evade professions are very close to becoming quite immortal to anyone but nukers (then it's a case of maxing out on HP) unless other changes are made too. And I do play an evade prof.

[Genie]

1. Aim time of 2 secs when in plain sight (not hiding)
2. Instant when in hiding.
3. Increased recharge time all across the board (only max atainable skill with all buffs and items at 220 should give 10 sec recharge). Same should also apply for FA.
4. Recalculated damage mitigation based on skill all across the board (will hopefully lessen the potency at lower levels). Same should also apply for FA.
5. Agent/Shade ability to hide in plain sight (ie under attack). Skill check conceal vs percetion for success.
6. A common special lockout of 4 secs to avoid spamming of specials. Each special still have their idividual recharge, but a minimum of 4 secs must pass between each. This goes for all specials, not just AS/FA.
7. Reduce damage cap of AS/FA to 6500/7500 in PvP (if damage is recalculated, see 4, this may not be needed).
8. Only weapons that are natural to aim should have AS (example: rifles, assault rifles, heavy weapons, some energy weapons).

[Gunfytr]

Same should also apply for FA.

Sure...as soon as the def chk to FA goes away.

[Ocene]

Damn you guys made me edit a sig......I was happy with my soldier in my sig...

[McKnuckleSamwich]

You have openly admitted you don't know how to play your crat, I assume your advy, and whichever your 3rd evade profession may be.

Stick to troll NSD threads and speak not of things you know nothing of.

yea.

But Eroz too, this evades prof being immortal or w/e I know not of what you speak.

[MA's are strong for 1:40, and possible +40 seconds after, IF they have ring up and are in evade gear]<--------is NOT immortal, not even close to it, and with evade gear on is barely a threat.

[Advies, if you remove AS pistol and 80% checking perks will need to work their asses off to get viable AR to hit other evades profs with specials, thereby losing the ooooh, lets see, about 200 AAD/100 evades off the top, and probably a bit more in other places]<----------no LONGER immortal

[Crats, once you take away AS will be immortal for as long as perks are up and can kite and root/snare out of range, which is changing in the rebalance, snares roots getting 8 second duration, so, if they are rooting/snaring continuously, they won't be nuking, which means you only realy have to tank their pets]<--- probably not OP'd, not immortal, not really too hard to deal with though.

[Engies, once you remove AS pistol, you either have a crap load of other problems like a engi with remod, or an engi with KEC3 (still OP'd to hell), or a shovel, god forbid, engies need a serious nerf on pet AR AND they need to lose AS pistol +80% checkign perks and then we'll see some balanced PVP] <--- Engies need a LOT more than losing AS pistol before rebalancing is remotely close, immortal, no, but they can instagib you way way way faster than you can kill them.

[shades/traders/whatever other evade prof] not really that big a deal.

[erozc]

But Eroz too, this evades prof being immortal or w/e I know not of what you speak.

[MA's are strong for 1:40, and possible +40 seconds after, IF they have ring up and are in evade gear]<--------is NOT immortal, not even close to it, and with evade gear on is barely a threat.

[Advies, if you remove AS pistol and 80% checking perks will need to work their asses off to get viable AR to hit other evades profs with specials, thereby losing the ooooh, lets see, about 200 AAD/100 evades off the top, and probably a bit more in other places]<----------no LONGER immortal

[Engies, once you remove AS pistol, you either have a crap load of other problems like a engi with remod, or an engi with KEC3 (still OP'd to hell), or a shovel, god forbid, engies need a serious nerf on pet AR AND they need to lose AS pistol +80% checkign perks and then we'll see some balanced PVP] <--- Engies need a LOT more than losing AS pistol before rebalancing is remotely close, immortal, no, but they can instagib you way way way faster than you can kill them.

[shades/traders/whatever other evade prof] not really that big a deal.

So I must, once again, ask what AR do you think is appropriate for an advy with 100% perks and no AS. Still, will probably be much less threat than your defensive MAs.

What's funny you somehow included engies into "evade" professions, and forgot fixers completely.

[Taranide]

Yeah, right. Remove AAD. Might as well as remove evade MA/crat/fixer from the game then since their evade boosts are based on AAD mostly. Without AAD those professions would be pretty much useless. Even worse than keepers.

EDIT:
As for main topic, I'd like to see aimed shot removed from weapon specials and added to perk actions like backstab is. Still working like current AS ofc, available to agent, trader and maybe MP. Skill should be triggered with their ancestor weapons equipped.

[Weltall]

So I must, once again, ask what AR do you think is appropriate for an advy with 100% perks and no AS. Still, will probably be much less threat than your defensive MAs.

I'd say they should have around 2700 since they have oh so much defenses. Advs are sorta ridiculous since they have disgusting amounts of survival plus a decent offense.

Offense or defense should take a severe whack with the nerfbat for advs to balance them out.

evade professions are very close to becoming quite immortal to anyone but nukers (then it's a case of maxing out on HP) unless other changes are made too. And I do play an evade prof.

Yeah of course your near immortal adv will become fully immortal now

[Ocene]

Yeah, right. Remove AAD. Might as well as remove evade MA/crat/fixer from the game then since their evade boosts are based on AAD mostly. Without AAD those professions would be pretty much useless. Even worse than keepers.

EDIT:
As for main topic, I'd like to see aimed shot removed from weapon specials and added to perk actions like backstab is. Still working like current AS ofc, available to agent, trader and maybe MP. Skill should be triggered with their ancestor weapons equipped.

AS is fine now, because AAD is at those levels. Nobody here says to remove AAD. However given the amounts of AAD people can reach these days, removing AS or making it a perk, is just plain wrong.

[Taranide]

AS is fine now, because AAD is at those levels. Nobody here says to remove AAD. However given the amounts of AAD people can reach these days, removing AS or making it a perk, is just plain wrong.

That would be basically the result from one of your suggestions. Nevertheless, these rebalance arm wrestlings are pretty much useless, since most of the people look at the ideas how they would look like now, not after rebalancing act.

[Ctrlaltwin]

I am terrified of rebalance for pvp. If specials see a huge nerf (AS, sneak attack, dimach)...

Things like evades/AAD could really dictate PvP. Imagine 5 guys hitting one trying to bring him down.

[Weltall]

If AAD is generally reduced, perk checks must be increased as well or evade profs must get much more substantial alternate defenses.

[Genie]

If AAD is generally reduced, perk checks must be increased as well or evade profs must get much more substantial alternate defenses.

Not needed, because with AS nerfed, the thing that damages you will be gone. AAD reducement is in balance with AS nerf. Adding an alternate defense to evade profs would unbalance it again.

[Weltall]

AS isn't the only thing that can hurt evaders try perking a non-advy evade prof and see how fast it dies.

[Brofist]

AS isn't the only thing that can hurt evaders try perking a non-advy evade prof and see how fast it dies.

I couldn't, because I don't have mongo rage.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I couldn't, because I don't have mongo rage.

You don't need MR to perk evaders.

L2P.

you only "need" MR to perk evaders if you have crap timing, or you're doing something ridiculous, like, using gelids on a 205 doctor and complaining that you can't hit endgame fixers with crave, or whatever it's called.