Nerf Traders Now...

[Strupstad]

2 drains and my soldier is completely and utterly pointless to play, yes nerf drains.
in bf4 "get more nr noob". which does nothing to remove the opness of drains.
its a matter of landing = gg
fun game mechanic? no.

They nerfed BR already! Get off our back!!

[Kuingar]

When people say "They have a weak point", it's my argument when people say "let me go and drain" before a duel. I explain it, then they use the excuse "I'm OE when not drained. Why would I duel OE?" and such excuses. Lowbie PvP is completely ruined by traders. It's always: Soldier is killing, or one of the other mild prof's at this lvl. Then, predrained, OSBed trader pops his head round, kills everyone and logs off to save OBs. It's bull****.

[Ocene]

When a trader debuffs me enough to send me back in time to TL5 time, it just makes no sense.

I really don't like this part of the game.

On top of it they still have BR...they had GTH....you guys at FC need to sit down and have a look at it. It's just plain stupid.

[fortorn]

I have made a few posts on this and I completely agree, I wont do the numbers games as most of the people who post on these play traders, and like crats with stuns, don't want they're prof nerfed to something other than 3 button combo winning.

Bump hardcore for level locking drains (any nanite drain should be 175+)

To hell with 175+. I say 210+. Traders are almost exempt from lvl locked nanos that are core parts of their toolset. And if Means really hates lvl locks he should make nanites impossible to use before ttl7.

[Anarchic1]

I have no problem whacking a trader on my tl7 agent. Nor do most profs have a problem ganking my tl5 trader. soooooo suck it up and get better gear ? k

Espeically if tl7 traders were so oped, why are there 0 active tl7 pvp traders on rk2. hmmmmm

[vios]

Espeically if tl7 traders were so oped, why are there 0 active tl7 pvp traders on rk2. hmmmmm

Because they are hard to play and they require lots of PvM to be good at it.

It is easier to 12345p0wn (most pvp classes) or in low level traders drain1+drain2+1234

[Shrubberyman]

Espeically if tl7 traders were so oped, why are there 0 active tl7 pvp traders on rk2. hmmmmm

Gweh (aka Pathogen) is quite active on RK2.

For the rest, most were FotM traders rolled because of the old BR and GTH awesomeness who saw no point in still playing it after the BR and GTH nerf. Kinda like how a good many advies would just disappear if AS pistol and Acrobat was taken from them...

[Strupstad]

So we've come to the conclusion that there are zero active TL7 pvp'ers. Good! Move along now babies!

[Shuzzy]

Tl5 agents need a nerfing first.
And this is coming from someone with a tl5 agent.
And as far as lower pvp goes, tl3 enfs need to be nerfed before traders.

[Original]

Traders to me seemed fine in PvP to me in tl1-3 before LE came in.. SDS and nanites really made a huge difference. SDS removed the little time you had to get an alpha in some cases, and would definately OE Pet profs pets before they could set them working.. Nanites were much lower resists and way more powerful than the RK equivelant shouldn't have been available in tl's 2+3 at the least. Other than that, with NR they will have a hell of a time trying to land that second drain and if you get lucky countering the first you should have it in the bag more times than not.

The thing that does make traders borderline OP, and definately OP at tl 1+2 is Outside buffing. It gifts them with survivability that they shouldn't have in my opinion. You lose the chance to alpha, and with 1 drain on trying to chew through OBs takes time, and by then you will most likely have a second drain on and it's over. Just my take on it.

[Pomidor]

When a trader debuffs me enough to send me back in time to TL5 time, it just makes no sense.

And any trader can debuff TL5 soldeir to times of early TL2. When you have 420-450 AR as a max twinked 150 sold, you will know there is nothing to do except die and repeat till you wont meet said trader.

There where thousands suggestions, some good, some bad. But Drains are essencial (cripling target) but in current state, its not cripling, its disabling. Any player with trader can easli disable most toolsets of 3-4 chars before he gets jumped. Skilled one will mostlikely kill those 4 chars within minute.

Nerf Traders? No. just tone down a bit.

Firstly, LE drains should be at requirements only for TL7. That being said, some additional changes must come across all drain toolset:
- Drain ammount of each drain should back to a trader by 25%, not more. So if trader Drains somone by 100pts, he gets only 25 back. In this case, it would be much harder to ladder drains
- Increase Drain costs by 25% in both line. So cripling multiple targets gets harder. This change would disable trader as a one-man-army (done that with my trader).
- Since traders are masters of NCU (Yuttos at lvl 60...), Drains should get more NCU ussage. Trader anyways has not much buffs to fill such huge NCU by himself.

I dont want to get rid of traders or nerf them to the extent where they are unplayable in PVP, but I dontlike them being so OPed to the field, where they can be untouchable even by a zerg...

[Artyomis]

Well.. As you guys have probably read from fixer document - LICC will be modified and will have 10 seconds duration with 40 seconds cooldown in local fixer NCU, which means fixers won't be able to spam it around anymore. Actually, if target loses 250 evades - it basically means you've obtained 250 AR for all your attacks. Traders actually do the same with drains, but their effect is more than a single one. They obtain AR and their target loses AR and nanoskills.
There are several things to do.
1. Place a local cooldown into trader's NCU which will be shorter than positive effect of drains (this keeps possibility to ladder drains for twinking purposes, but will prevent traders from spamming those around in mass pvp like it happens now at tl5 for example).

2. Split drains into 2 nanolines which wont stack in target's NCU, but they will in trader's one (otherwise if trader predrains nanoskills and then drains weapon skills - trader's nanoskills go back to start-up level, and it'll prevent to use the same weapon skills drain nano). One of those will debuff weapon skills from target and give them back to trader, and another one will do that to nanoskills. (This will also leave traders with ability to ladder things for twinking, but will give opponents either a chance to use maximum of nano toolset while being AR debuffed, or ability to use weapons with the same efficiency, but without a chance to use complete nano toolset). Same thing already applies to AAO/AAD drains, which replace each other.

3. Traders should recieve appropriate weapon support at low levels. Traders are not in a high demand in teams while levelling at low levels thanks to extremely low PvM damage output and lack of good use as a team member.

Other ideas of mine aren't complete atm, so will post them later in this thread.

[Anarchic1]

the thing is a few tl5 profs under one drain can kill a trader. Nts will floor traders even faster with ur proposed idea. 2nd drain has a 150% nr check on it. Maybe a fair compromise is reduced the duratino of the 2nd drain.

[Esqi]

the thing is a few tl5 profs under one drain can kill a trader. Nts will floor traders even faster with ur proposed idea. 2nd drain has a 150% nr check on it. Maybe a fair compromise is reduced the duratino of the 2nd drain.

Soz bro, but my agent is pretty well twinked to buggery and one drain from trader and it's lolstreet for them against me.

Mimic enf surely gains the NR advantage, but what about if someone wanted mimic adv or mimic trader or sold or even doc?

Once i have one drain on me, its over.

[sultryvoltron]

Soz bro, but my agent is pretty well twinked to buggery and one drain from trader and it's lolstreet for them against me.

Mimic enf surely gains the NR advantage, but what about if someone wanted mimic adv or mimic trader or sold or even doc?

Once i have one drain on me, its over.

That's because Mimics are broken. When that's fixed, it won't be as bad.

Also, my TL5 Mimic Doc setup could still CH under one drain with like... 2 or 3 r-click swaps. Not to mention AS still caps them from an OE weapon. In fact, I'd say TL5 Agents are arguably the best profession for killing TL5 Traders.

[Armus]

Once i have one drain on me, its over.

Yeah one 90% check nano and you're a gonner unless you happen to have an awesome alpha and mongo rage.

I duelled a 150 trader on my 170 soldier yesterday. I reached an all time low of an attack rating of 370 vs him. That's down from 1670 ish.

So the green trader debuffed my AR by factor of 78%.

Initially it was "only" down to 670 though after the first 4 seconds.

Ofcourse there is nothing wrong with this power! It's like totally reasonable!

[Anarchic1]

I've lost to agents in duels after getting one drain off. 170 sols don't perform well though againt traders in general. But then again u can't have it against everyone. tl5 traders perform poorly against enfs/nts/and agents. Usually an agent can hit cs, fuzz, tranq and insta splat you unless you have alba wen wen up. It's very hard in my opinion to beat an agent in mimic doc without using items availabe only once every 30 mins. Impossible in mimic doc. Though mimic advy really esq?

The problem with this is 90% of a time a good trader will beat a good sol.
But the thing, 90% a mimic enf agent , or enf will beat a trader.

so it goes both ways. You might get bu hu by trader, but I get put down quite a bit myself. So to significantly nerf traders, without rebalancing other oped tl5s will just kill traders as a viable tl5 pvp toon. You'll just see more tl5 agents then. And a tl5 agent hurts more than a tl5 trader

[Artyomis]

Well, speaking of traders losing to agents should not lead us to suggestion about totally normal trader's toolset, but to some OPs agent's features at level 170 against professions of similar level.

While talking about drains - we should overview the complete picture vs all professions variated by breed and not only against top-end agents.

Talking about nanite drains - I can use those below level 60 on my trader and able to drop ANY target to deep negative AR completely disabling its entire toolset and turning it into fluffy drain pet for as long as I want to.

Talking about agents who beat traders at tl5 - let's see what abilities give agents such a chance and analyse them vs all other profs n breed variations and get a conclusion.

Speaking of my ideas listed above - I also would love to see only 2 drain nanolines, one for weapon skills and one for nanoskills, not 2 lines of each type. Leave them at 90% check, I can't see a problem with that. But then again, if such a split will happen - then weapon skill drains should also debuff special attacks skills without giving those to trader, to make sure target got maximum chance of getting weapons into OE.

Besides, drains can remove different amount of skills depends on target level and profession for example. MPs got pretty low self AR while some other profs got very high one. So drains should not harm all those profs with the same amount.

[Anarchic1]

aye tl1/tl2/tl3 traders need nerfing. But at tl5 I believe they are balanaced. Advies/nts/enfs/agents/docs/mas can still put u down with one drain. And 2nd drain is quite hard to land especially with mini hhab in game now

[Ocene]

As much as I don't want to see YOUR trader nerfed DM, giving us an argument that with your agent you can kill traders easily is not it. Traders don't nerf Aimed Shot, some of your perks are not affected.

A trader has about 20 secs of lifetime against my agent. Prolly less actually.

None of my other toons can say the same.