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Thread: Will FC change any pvp level ranges?

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    So what you are saying is: Instead of fixing 90% of the problem, let's do nothing!

    Stupidity in it's purest form right there in the best case.

    Egocentrism in the worst.

    Or a combination.
    Sadly, this is what Funcom does right now with NW and other expansions, they know bugs, serious problems, hell they even read our daily "enthusiasm" for current NW ranges, etc., but they do nothing and they rather ignore it and if they say something about it then it ends with "we don't have time to fix it right now, maybe in the future, because we do xxxx over "inserthowmanyyears" . I thought that Means is good GD, but after months of ignoring problems, exploits and promising stuffs which should be now, but they will happen in several months/years...it is just big fail
    First level 1 soldier with BOC in Anarchy Online<---[CGS] project
    Owned and killed tl1/2 NW for months, time to leave and give chance to clan "twinks".
    First trader with 100% JAME ql 141 at level30 at rk1
    Clan PVP org[1-220] in one line
    [Questra]: well i hate omnis having side xp [Questra]: but i'm afraid to spoil your fun i'm only gonna plant neutral bases at tl2 now, so you'll have to piss the neuts off if you want to zerg lowbie sites
    Darkirbiska/Darkirbis/Marburg1111/Mavherick/Irbiska/Ultimater2/Ultimater/Ilubtower and some froobs....wtb more slots [retired]

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    So what you are saying is: Instead of fixing 90% of the problem, let's do nothing!

    Stupidity in it's purest form right there in the best case.

    Egocentrism in the worst.

    Or a combination.
    That's fine. You post is sensationalism at it's worst ... 90% of the problems? Damn, what's wrong with you? Why did youstop at 90%? Personally, I like 235.6% of the problem. That's a much bigger number.

    Fact is that this 'problem' doesn't have a '90%' significance, what ever the hell that means.

    What I was saying is that if FC sticks to any form of laddering concept to change this, the change won't really have any impact ... you will still see pocketing and you will still be killed by twinks with way higher capabilities than you can deal with reasonably with a TL5 twink. Both of those being the primary reasons you stated for why it needs to be changed right? Of course, if you rolled the least impacted levels in the first place, you wouldn't have a problem right now or even after some change is made. /shrug. You're going to be the next Jekonam, except for TL5 NW.
    Last edited by Obtena; Nov 8th, 2010 at 21:45:28.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    That's fine. You post is sensationalism at it's worst ...
    That's your opinion. Which doesn't count for much luckily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    90% of the problems? Damn, what's wrong with you? Why did youstop at 90%? Personally, I like 235.6% of the problem. That's a much bigger number.
    The number is not to be taken literally. Most people would understand that it's only a way of expressing that it would reduce the problem significantly. And yes, I said problem, not problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Fact is that this 'problem' doesn't have a '90%' significance, what ever the hell that means.
    Read above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    What I was saying is that if FC sticks to any form of laddering concept to change this, the change won't really have any impact ... you will still see pocketing and you will still be killed by twinks with way higher capabilities than you can deal with reasonably with a TL5 twink.
    How can you NOT understand that a 207-219 is way WAY more powerful than a 200? The difference between say a 170 and a 200 is certainly noticable but but it's nothing compared to a 170 vs a 214.

    Really, how can you not see that the 170 has a much greater chance vs a 200 than vs a 214?

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Both of those being the primary reasons you stated for why it needs to be changed right? Of course, if you rolled the least impacted levels in the first place, you wouldn't have a problem right now or even after some change is made. /shrug. You're going to be the next Jekonam, except for TL5 NW.
    The problem is that the community isn't willing to roll dedicated 160 ish NW twinks as I am so there is simply noone for me to play with.

    If you don't get it this time you never ever will.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkirbiska1 View Post
    Sadly, this is what Funcom does right now with NW and other expansions, they know bugs, serious problems, hell they even read our daily "enthusiasm" for current NW ranges, etc., but they do nothing and they rather ignore it and if they say something about it then it ends with "we don't have time to fix it right now, maybe in the future, because we do xxxx over "inserthowmanyyears" . I thought that Means is good GD, but after months of ignoring problems, exploits and promising stuffs which should be now, but they will happen in several months/years...it is just big fail
    A comment on this again would be nice. He did once or twice before.

    The suggested change wouldn't require much work to implement and it would revive the second largest range. I miss tl5 wars. The 2-3 team battles 2-4 years ago were awesome. Team pvp at a range without the most overpowered stuff and without pointbots involved equals pure fun.

    Wish they would make it possible again.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    Really, how can you not see that the 170 has a much greater chance vs a 200 than vs a 214?
    I do see it. A real twink that level is still going to wipe the floor with you because of pocketing, research and access to top game loots. Like someone brings a 207 without 220 support? Gimme a break. Same thing is going to happen if FC 'fixes' TL5 for you. You know as well as I do that you have no chance as long as someone is being pocketed or fully twinked. You will lose as ungraciously to a 200 twink as you would a 207. That I have no doubt. It's no more likely that a 170 twink against a 200 than they could a 207. Between research and AI levels and QL 300 OFAB/AI armor, I think you are dreaming a bit.

    What you are doing is rather clever really. You don't want to reroll, but you have no problem making anyone with a 207 reroll to 200 to gank you. Somehow you deserve that special consideration and they don't.
    Last edited by Obtena; Nov 9th, 2010 at 02:53:06.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    It's no more likely that a 170 twink against a 200 than they could a 207. Between research and AI levels and QL 300 OFAB/AI armor, I think you are dreaming a bit.
    There is actually quite a huge difference. More perks, more perk actions available, alb huds, DB/alb bracers, xan weapons, beta symbs, alpha spirits, tons more IP in skillz.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  7. #87
    From the perspective of a 165+ toon crying about being unable to compete vs. pocketing and higher TL gankers, I would think the difference between 200 and 207 to be rather transparent to them. It's rather comical to think that difference is so significant, that TL5 could compete toe-to-toe with a 200, but not a 207.

    Regardless, if a change did happen, it would be unfortunate for those that did play by the rules, especially if the change had little impact to the problematic pocketing and ganking of TL5 toons.

    IMO, the solution to this is just more PVP 'stuff' that allows for more appropriate matchings. Everyone wants fair PVP. It's not an unreasonable thing to ask for, but the context needs to be fair as well. Doesn't the person making a 207 twink deserve to have the same consideration for their work on that toon as the person that made the 165+ twink does? Everyone's answer to that should be yes.
    Last edited by Obtena; Nov 9th, 2010 at 04:48:46.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  8. #88
    Does Obtena do anything other than argue against everyone in the thread? I don't think I've ever seen him agree with anyone, ever (Except maybe the devs)...

    Someone post a thread in support of the AS pistol and someone post a thread against it. See if he argues with both them?

  9. #89
    I only argued with the people I don't agree with. That's not everyone BTW>
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  10. #90
    beta symbs are jkust regular symbs and i just calced it and it's only possible to do with like all gear and only in a few spots for only 3/4 profs.
    Deathmaster1 220/30/70 Dmsengi 220/28/70
    Dmstanker 220/30/70 Dmsdoc 220/25/70
    Anarchic1 126/15/35 Dmsfix 220/30/70
    Imakeyouoe 164/22/42 Imakeyouoe2 85/9/21

    BM of Dark Front - We are recruiting. darkfront.org

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    I do see it. A real twink that level is still going to wipe the floor with you because of pocketing, research and access to top game loots.
    First of all you are dead wrong. The difference between a 200 and say a 214 is MASSIVE.

    Second.. You are again saying that instead of solving most of the problem lets do nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Like someone brings a 207 without 220 support?
    We do that all the time. So did omni. It's so easy to go in with say a 207 fixer and kill one or two tl5's, then run away and come back in a min and repeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Gimme a break. Same thing is going to happen if FC 'fixes' TL5 for you. You know as well as I do that you have no chance as long as someone is being pocketed or fully twinked.
    The chance of killing a 200 over a 214 is much better. If you don't realize that then you know nothing about game mechanics and should resign as a pro right now.

    And I want to keep tl5's from getting pocketed by tl7's. You don't want that because why again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    You will lose as ungraciously to a 200 twink as you would a 207. That I have no doubt.
    I don't. And if you look around a bit you will see that neither does the community. You are pretty much alone clinging to the notion that 207-214 isn't vastly more powerful than a 200.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    It's no more likely that a 170 twink against a 200 than they could a 207. Between research and AI levels and QL 300 OFAB/AI armor, I think you are dreaming a bit.
    Then add alba huds, lox weapons, dsharks, not mentioning say 14 new perks for a 214, super powerful heals and other buffs and debuffs.

    The above means that any decent leveling toon around that level can just laugh off anything a tl5 is trying to do. The same isn't true at tl6. Which means that despite the new pvm 200 "twinks" we have now we won't see anyway nearly as many twink killers out there. And the ones we do get won't be half as much of a threat as the present little army of 207-214's.

    I'd be very happy with that situation and I haven't met anyone ig who don't think that would revive the tl5 range from the permafrost it is in now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    What you are doing is rather clever really. You don't want to reroll, but you have no problem making anyone with a 207 reroll to 200 to gank you. Somehow you deserve that special consideration and they don't.
    For the love of mother****ing god I told you that I don't have to rereoll, this isn't about me. It's about the whole community that won't rereoll.
    Which means no tl5 action for everyone, including myself.

    Get that into your thick skull so the discussion can move on or just shut up.

  12. #92
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    Obtena, you miss the point. NW, as everything else in game, should be fun but at TL5+ it isnt. When you take a "typical NW level of a tiwnk and his twink killer counterpart" you see a fight when one side has some advantages but the other that is lower level still have some chances to win and he fights. Thats how it looks like when lvl 24 character meets lvl 30. Or 49 meets 60. 60 vs 76, 75 vs 90, 90 vs 110, 110 vs 126 etc. Those can be very interesting fights. But suddenly its tl5 and you are asked to meet an opponents that is 2 title levels higher than you and the other differences (including a whole expansion, or booster pack or whatever is LoX called) are so huge that it isnt a fight anymore. Ive tried to kill a tl7 fixer on my enf once and i was unable to do it when he went afk. Those tl5 vs tl7 fights simply aint funny is it so hard to understand? Thats why tl5 nw is so dead.
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  13. #93
    I get everything you are saying in your post Ciek, yet I still can't help but notice that we still have TL5 tower battles. How can that happen if there are all these 207 twink killers running around demolishing TL5 attackers and defenders? I think I'm just experiencing people being sensational. You don't like how laddering affects TL5 NW PVP? That's an interesting problem that isn't going to go away unless FC eliminate laddering at TL5+ NW. They might as well roll back the 150 TL5 PVP limit like it was before if that's the case. I honestly can't see FC abandoning the laddering scheme just because some players are using the guise of 'it's not fun anymore' to cover up the fact that they can't seem to play they the rules of the game. That's honestly what it comes down to. NW twinkers aren't dumb. They don't make twinks for PVP, they make them for NW. If there is some magic capping level implemented, they will just roll twinks so thos magic levels can't hit them, kinda like how they do now to avoid 207 gankers ><. Laddering must exist.

    Can laddering change? Sure, but that don't fix much unless it becomes so compressed that any TL7 support at a TL5 battle is 3 times removed from a 165 twink. Do the math and figure it out ... it's not a very realistic application of the concept. It's almost as bad as a level cap.

    I seriously believe that it's still fun, it's just more complex than the previous situation where omni TL5 zerg meets clan TL5 zerg and whoever is the zergiest wins the fight. Finally, you can have some tactics, employ various level ranges in your zerg and take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses and lack of support or gaps in their levels. Are you going to elevate your gameplay to match the side that takes advantage of these things? If you are into NW, you will.
    Last edited by Obtena; Nov 9th, 2010 at 16:21:56.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  14. #94
    I think they should let us know if there was anything to be expected regarding the pvp ranges. It would allow us to know if we should wait and see until making that new uber twink. It's not fun to be in pending mode, but we've been there all the time to be honest.

    There has been some conversation about it, so something might be happening at some point:

    Quote Originally Posted by NoGoal
    So my question for you, Means (yes in pink!):
    As we had a lot of threads about 207 killing TL5 twinks, will you also change level ranges outside BS?
    Quote Originally Posted by Means
    We have had some discussions here about the “laddering” that currently goes on at tower wars and we do intend to examine the issue more closely. With everything else going on I can’t commit to a timeframe on this one.
    I don't mind if the ranges wouldn't change. If they could just come up with a system where a 220 doc can't heal a 207 who will slay entire TL5 raid force, that would be for the best.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Piili View Post
    If they could just come up with a system where a 220 doc can't heal a 207 who will slay entire TL5 raid force, that would be for the best.
    That's the part Obtena is against of, thinking it's all skill the way it is now.

  16. #96
    ^^ And you would be wrong. I'm against FC placating and pandering to people that can't figure out how laddering in NW works. NW isn't about some clean PVP encounter where you can ignore the strategy stuff. If you want that, do BS. Maybe My little Pony Online has some PVP for you guys.
    Last edited by Obtena; Nov 10th, 2010 at 03:28:16.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  17. #97
    I mean I don't want to diss on anyone. But tower wars are all about being as brutal as possible and taking any advantage to the extreme. I knew about 207s and decided to roll 164s. Though I know 200 twinks might be a problem like a certain 200 nt that destroys my trader.

    I have a 126 nowadays, and any time I try to do towers with it I get zerged by 150s. It's no big deal. I plan on making a new 118 twink to stay free of those 150s

    90 NR 3 agents were super powerful at one point and then a bunch of 109 traders were rolled to take care of them.

    So no matter what happens, every twink you make will have to face a higher lvl twink.

    Some people thought 170 agents were ridicously oped at tl5 so they decided to create toons to kill them like 207 fixers or 214s .

    Though I do think 207s might be a bore, but with both adequate tl5 and tl7 support it's fun those wars.
    I recently did a war where omnis with tl5s had to face a 207 fixer we still took the site. Took multiple small scale tl5 and tl7 fights to do it with most people frantically relogging to assure tl7 domination.

    Sure tl5 nw isn't as active as some people might hope, but really it's just as active as any other tl range.

    I'm currently making a 207 engy twink myself. I don't care whether it'll be nerfed or not. Twinking is fun and either way I can always lvl it for 214 bs later on .
    Deathmaster1 220/30/70 Dmsengi 220/28/70
    Dmstanker 220/30/70 Dmsdoc 220/25/70
    Anarchic1 126/15/35 Dmsfix 220/30/70
    Imakeyouoe 164/22/42 Imakeyouoe2 85/9/21

    BM of Dark Front - We are recruiting. darkfront.org

  18. #98
    Loads of text here. You've been warned!

    Here is some tl5 history from my point of view:

    Before LE most tl5 twinks were 150-160 ish. But then came the battlestations and people started leveling to 174 to have a good chance inside BS.
    Naturally we, as in the die hard NW fans tried to warn as many as possible not to overlevel. But bs was an on demand pvp scene that required little to no preparation. Just click and play. So bs came to run pretty much 24/7.
    And there were rewards as well in the form of VP.
    So what happened was that BS simply came to mean much more to the tl5 community. Then there also came to be a rather big tl5 duel scene which only gave people more incentive to go 174 to be competetive. This was true for both factions on rk1.

    I still tried to talk people out of it both in our guild channel and on our lowbie warbot and it worked semi ok in org but to a much lesser extent with outsiders. So.. eventually we had on our hands was a tl5 force that consted to a large degree of characters that were in range of 219's! Once they had tried NW a few times they would just "lol" and never join again because they had essentially been fighting a high tl7 force. Which we know is completely impossible.

    Some made new, lower twinks. But the people that are prepared to do that were/are few and far in between.

    Personally I don't want to make tl5 NW an exclusive club for nolifers like myself with unlimited resources. I want the general tl5 population to be able to join. Because otherwise there just isn't enough people to go around for other than a random skirmish here and there.
    And that's exactly what we have now.

    The community has spoken. It may be "their own fault" for prioritizing being über inside bs over NW. But it doesn't matter. The result is the same: No NW action for everyone. Including those with twinks out of 207 and up range.


    Then there is also the issue of pocketing. A 174 can be pocketed by up to level 219 and has a range all the way down to level 138. That means that the entire tl5 range and a good bit into tl4 as well is subject to attack by someone who basically has 219 heals.

    So no matter if you choose a "good" twink level you will face tl7 in some way. So claiming that it's something that is easily avoidable is just plain wrong.

    Now.. this is ofcourse Funcoms own game. But we are the customers who pay for it. Ultimately if Funcom doesn't supply what the community wants then we won't be paying for the game anymore.

    And yet again: The community has spoken, nearly no tl5 NW activity over the last two years. The message is crystal clear. If it is to be what it used to be then something has to be done.

    Personally I don't see what we have to lose here by changing the ranges as suggested. Some may argue that it's not good to change the game according to "every whim" of the players. In a sense that is true but this is hardly a whim. This is something that has been discussed for several years now. On the other hand we have tons and tons of fun to be gained by this simple change.

    To sum it up:

    Keep things as they are and have tl5 NW stay dead until the game dies.

    Or

    Change the ranges and watch the tl5 NW scence blossom and add to the fun. Anything that adds fun to the game will ultimately extend it's lifespan.

    Personally the choice between no fun and loads of fun is easy. Should be for anyone that likes to have fun
    Last edited by Noobius76; Nov 10th, 2010 at 11:31:33.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    ^^ And you would be wrong. I'm against FC placating and pandering to people that can't figure out how laddering in NW works. NW isn't about some clean PVP encounter where you can ignore the strategy stuff. If you want that, do BS. Maybe My little Pony Online has some PVP for you guys.
    We know how laddering works, thank you.

    We just don't like it and don't want it.

    Clearer now?

  20. #100
    So far all I've caught out of all of this in regards to being in favor of changing the peeveepee ranges is along the lines of Q________________________________________________Q
    Metalynx, hey, Metalynx!
    Is there any Smoked Reet left?

    "You ate it all already, didn't you?"
    Nyoro~n

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