Remove CH form Agent Shadow/Mimic Line

[fortorn]

Title says it all. Remove the ability for Agents to cast CH.

Agents have evades, CC and unending levels of DMG. CH is far too OP. I know there is a great deal of opinions on this matter and I would like to hear the pros and cons to my suggestion.

Any takers?

[fortorn]

Yes I am aware I misspelled "from". Don't use that as an excuse to flame. I really do want justification as to why agents get this extremely overpowered defense.

[Mountaingoat]

What about their sneak attack abilities?

[doctorzoidbyrg]

calling out ruse of taren 3 while we're at it

agents making me break my tab key since 05 - fix this asap

[Hared]

So who killed you in Battlestation? Agents have no true line of defense .. CH is really the only thing agents cling to because that is all they have left. And since when have agents been DD's? Nothing is going to change until the balance documentation hits live. Untill then count on most if not all agents using CH.

[Kopecz]

Agents have evades

LAWL

CC

LAWL

and unending levels of DMG.

LAWL

CH is far too OP.

LAWL

Please, oh please, show me the overpowered defense agents have. Really, I'm serious here. I mean it has to be the defense right? I can't believe that you think agents are super scary w/ that AS and slow as hell perks.

[fortorn]

Constructive....

So... if agents dont have evades or CC shouldn't that be addressed?

Clinging to to CH is just a sign of how broken it is. Every agent knows if CH were removed from agent tools as it stands now agents would be what they are supposed to be, glass cannons.

Why shouldn't an agent be able to break combat and run at any time? Why shouldn't an agent sneak and hide at any time and use those as defenses. Why does an agent have to have 1, 1 single nano that makes or breaks them?

If I were an agent, I'd ask these questions.

[Jayice]

I just don't see that happening. Mimic doc for CH/ubt is among the best mode of survival for agents who choose not to go enfo at TL5. Past TL5 and into 7, it becomes the only way to be viable in pvp.

As far as evades go, I don't think I've seen very many agents I couldn't perk in both TL5 and TL7; their evades are truly pitiful imho. An agent's AR isn't any better either. The only thing you can expect to land is AS, Soften Up/Tranquilizer, and maybe nano feast. With all the root/snare resist (not to mention mimic prof is practically de-mocham to all nanoskills) flying around, agent CC has extremely limited use.

[Notcrattey]

it becomes the only way to be viable in pvp.

You mean it's the easiest.

People say it's the only viable route, but I have seen very few try to make specialized setups for other options.

[Sromp]

Clinging to to CH is just a sign of how broken it is. Every agent knows if CH were removed from agent tools as it stands now agents would be what they are supposed to be, glass cannons.

Why shouldn't an agent be able to break combat and run at any time? Why shouldn't an agent sneak and hide at any time and use those as defenses. Why does an agent have to have 1, 1 single nano that makes or breaks them?

They shouldn't, but if CH is removed before the balance changes, PvP agents probably won't even log on.

People say it's the only viable route, but I have seen very few try to make specialized setups for other options.

Lots of agents have tried for an evade-setup or AR-setup mimic trader. Mimic enfo has been tried as well, mostly by the TL5s who level up and try to keep the same playstyle. Sold gets tried occasionally, and at least a couple of us tried NT. I've even seen Adv for SL ganks using lizard for AR and parrot to run.

The problem isn't agents not being creative.

[Mostadio]

It keeps getting said that agents are going to look totally different. I'd wait for the nano docs to be released before crying about a the one viable tool that a broken prof has, considering how easily agents can be disabled these days.

[Anarchic1]

{Removed by Ophyr}

I will happily give up ch if we have a real defense. Our escape tools, alpha, conceal all suck at tl7....

[sultryvoltron]

You mean it's the easiest.

People say it's the only viable route, but I have seen very few try to make specialized setups for other options.

I've tried Max AR Mimic Trader (Fun, but VERY squishy, abuse conceal), Nano Setup Mimic Trader (VERY fun support playstyle, VERY squishy), Max AR Mimic Doc (Good killing, decent survivability, rubbish against 2+ opponents), Blind Setup spam using Mimic NT (Decent support play, very squishy when NS2 is down), and Mimic Soldier (garbage in every way). At TL5 I used Mimic MP (surprisingly effective), and Fixer (made due to give GSF to team) on top of those.

None of them are as good as Def Setup Doc, although my personal favorite that fits my playstyle the closest while maintaining survivability is Max AR/HP Doc.

Like Sromp said, we've tried.

Constructive....

So... if agents dont have evades or CC shouldn't that be addressed?

Clinging to to CH is just a sign of how broken it is. Every agent knows if CH were removed from agent tools as it stands now agents would be what they are supposed to be, glass cannons.

Why shouldn't an agent be able to break combat and run at any time? Why shouldn't an agent sneak and hide at any time and use those as defenses. Why does an agent have to have 1, 1 single nano that makes or breaks them?

If I were an agent, I'd ask these questions.

What Agents are clinging to CH? You need to do some thread searches, or hell even check the poll attached to the "Future of the Agent Profession" thread...

Do Agents still want the ability to serve as healers? Yes.
Should Agents still have that ability? Yes.
Should it be their only real trick? No.

Oh, also Agents aren't necessarily an evade or CC class. Hopefully the CC part will be addressed, but the evades part is really not Agent specific at all.


Quite honestly, you really know very little about the profession, or where the future of the profession is heading.

[Xootch]

is it april fools already again?

[-Klod-]

He has a point though. In his other post.

[fortorn]

Oh, also Agents aren't necessarily an evade or CC class. Hopefully the CC part will be addressed, but the evades part is really not Agent specific at all.


Quite honestly, you really know very little about the profession, or where the future of the profession is heading.

I never claimed to be an xpert which is why I am asking for opinions.

I am not a fan of the cookie cutter concept - one setup to rule them all. I haven't rolled an agent because all i see at ttl5 is enfo and doc, ttl7 doc. Where the hell is the fun in that?

SO like I said, why aren't evades, CC and "escape" and "hide" survival techniques being addressed heavily. Is it because agents fear the loss fo CH with no gain? Do agents just like having that NT like gankablity on most professions? Do agents simply like being docs with more dmg and unavoidable high dmg specials?

[Gatester]

Tranq is the only thing about agents that really pisses me off. CH does more than allow agents some moderately effective healing in pvp but it gives them an effective role as a supporter in some pvm content.

Unless agents are given a viable alternative I would not consider this just yet.

[Agentkay]

If you want remove CH from Agents might as well remove UBTs, currently UBTs and CHs is agents bread and butter for PVM I'm not too sure how they gonna survive without them

[sultryvoltron]

I never claimed to be an xpert which is why I am asking for opinions.

I am not a fan of the cookie cutter concept - one setup to rule them all. I haven't rolled an agent because all i see at ttl5 is enfo and doc, ttl7 doc. Where the hell is the fun in that?

SO like I said, why aren't evades, CC and "escape" and "hide" survival techniques being addressed heavily. Is it because agents fear the loss fo CH with no gain? Do agents just like having that NT like gankablity on most professions? Do agents simply like being docs with more dmg and unavoidable high dmg specials?

We honestly have no clue what is being addressed by FC. You can be sure we've asked for these things. I also trust that Lupus and Ebon have passed our wishes along to the Devs, that we play Agents, not Doctor Lite.

Evades are a pretty touchy subject. I'm not gonna really go into detail there.

Also, I think you're overexaggerating Agent damage in PvP. The perks we use most often to ill people are AI perks...

[Marinegent]

Sure, take away CH, give me more motivation to delete my agent.