Why are fixers so quiet?

[Deninan]

One of the most active threads in the fixer forums for some time is the one about the nano rebalance document yet I have seen no fixers mention it here. With the nano rebalance documents, fixers have lost evades, gained (what is widely considered to be) a poor choice for new weapons (RE) to name a few things we have problems with.

Why not bring our problems out into the public balance discussion forum where it can get some attention?

[Waylayer]

I even quoted the Fixer professionals comments in a recent FWM - not even a nibble ...

[Artyomis]

Fixer problems were brought to public forums multiple times.
Besides, there is a thread at various forums regarding all changes in document.
For some reason, developers don't want to comment anything, neither their points of view, nor anything that can explain those.

None from fixer community can see a reason of giving RE nanoline to fixers, except some atrox lovers who only see fixer as atrox with MR perked.
Regarding LICC changes - well, there are way more powerful rebuffs such as CB, drains, init debuffs. Looking forward on those in upcoming documents, but, I'm sure those SHOULD be changed the same way LICC was.
Regarding losing evades... Well, techincally fixers losing some dodge, but gaining duck and evade close. Theoretically, its a loss, but practically - can't tell, since this is a matter of tests.
Regarding HoTs. Well, HPS remained the same, but overall survivability lowered. I prefer faster ticks myself with less healing.
Regarding burst buff. The only thing that depends on it in fixer toolset - is cluster bullets, but nothing about those, so looking forward. And tiny IP economy isn't a thing that will benefit fixers alot.
Regarding "Power Up" perkline. Well, it may be useful in PvM to increase damage output, but it won't be as effective in PvP as it might be looking just because stuns aren't guaranteed and, even with maxed RE and some research support - fixers won't have high AR on perks to successfully land them on most endgame profs. Besides, it'll require 10 perks investment, so we should sacrifice something, and I just don't know what exactly.

Anyway, I really hope developers will spend at least few minutes talking to us about fixer changes, even tho I really doubt it will affect things that were announced.

[fortorn]

For some reason, developers don't want to comment anything, neither their points of view, nor anything that can explain those.

Anyway, I really hope developers will spend at least few minutes talking to us about fixer changes, even tho I really doubt it will affect things that were announced.

I feel your pain in the enforcer documents. We got a lot of rage and hate brewing over there and not a peep from funcom.

[Deninan]

I feel your pain in the enforcer documents. We got a lot of rage and hate brewing over there and not a peep from funcom.

See, I wouldn't mind that kind of passion from the fixers but most seem to have already resided themselves to the incoming changes.

I think with the significant changes to how engineer nanos work (with tradeskill reqs), fixers could have a few perks or nanos with B&E reqs/checks, making us more of the hacker profession that the forum reading fixer community by and large wants to become.

[Kain97]

See, I wouldn't mind that kind of passion from the fixers but most seem to have already resided themselves to the incoming changes

I'd say part of it is because there seems to be so few fixers left to post in the fixer forums... I swear, it seems like it's the same 7 or so people posting most of the time.

Even if all 7 of us post here wanting changes, we're likely to get drowned out by every other prof telling us we're going to be nigh invincible with the loss of AS... ofc they tend to ignore things like the increase in NR checking perks, our loss of aad against said perks, and what I think will be an overall increase in nuke power and availability... something we've long had a weakness against.

I know most of the fixers I've talked to see most of the nano doc as a giant nerf, but they don't really expect any changes - and fighting and arguing since LE (triples, no FA support, ql 300 hawk being unequippable early on, generally crap offense, low staying power, long standing issues being ignored, generally feeling like FC has no idea what to do with the prof, etc... ) has tired us out, I think. ;p

[Anarchic1]

looked at the documents, i concur, it looks bad for fixers. And ranged energy? really fc. stupid idea

[Ninjaloot]

Does this mean that they will finally be perkable? Good news imo.

[Artyomis]

Fixers won't be normally perkable, except MR-ganks.
Regarding engis and tradeskills - well, if fixers are forced to max B&E for nanoprograms - then overall IP template should be reviewed once again.

As we can see from document - we'll be forced to spend 10 perks into PU. Hit and Run should be merged with SMG Mastery then at least.
Please don't forget that fixers are already FORCED to perk CoNC, now we're going to be almost FORCED to invest another 10 perks.
I fail to see any kind of "choice" here, and even if it will be (ie our overall AR w RE weaps will be the same as SMG AR, while having the same off perks) - it's not a choice, it's just an equal option without any kind of change.

The only reason to give RE support to fixers - is to give fixers viable AS support with KEC-Type-3, so fixers will have to choose between high regular moderate/low special attacks damage, or low regular and high-capped AS damage in PvP. But, due to upcoming 3s execution time on AS - I really doubt that fixers will ever touch AS just because fixer's toolset and survivability forces us to kite pretty often and much.

I really hope those changes will hit test, so devs can test their endgame fixers against top-rated endgame opponents and see how fixers perform. Besides, I'm sure that overall fixer offences/defences will be nerfed with current document, especially debuffs.
Thats the only chance for fixers to get their document reviewed, other chances failed entirely.

[Larafina]

biggest problem will be nr based perks from docs crats mps etc. and the new powerful nukes we will probably see ingame after balancing, together with less heal in short time frames and no spaming of matrix anymore ... well at least less as

[Xenotric]

Biggest thing I think, is many fixers feel neglected.

There was a lot of posting and information for the developers about what fixers would like rebalance to look at, non of which got remotely looked at and instead most that was asked for was nerfed/removed.

Add into that, that if they don't take notice of whats said in the specific forums and what the professionals relay to them then what hope is there that they listen to threads in a public forum that will be heavily bias against any sort of positive change due to general flaming, people not actually having played a fixer trying to weigh in and of course more people who would probably think that an atrox with mongo rage is perfect balance. (We all know that when people can't hit someone every time then clearly their unkillable and unfair)


But to work on some of the points that Arty brought up:

Ranged energy: Completely wrong way to go, theres no benefit for a fixer to go this way, lower AR and generally going to be lower DPS even in PVM unless some ridiculous actions are taken in the balance (such as putting in RE uber weapon and giving fixer more support for RE than any other skill they currently use)

LICC: Just ridiculous over all, sure it needed adjusting but the current planned iteration in useless in pvm and hardly worth using in pvp, specially considering fixers nano casting issues (hard to land, high costs for most nanos considering) duration needs to be adjusted up with a separate duration for pvm at the least.

Loosing evades: -40 evade/duck and -250 dodge... what can I say... its just a complete nerf to our defence. (And yes that is -40 evade and duck, not +40 due to loosing the amount from acrobat as well)

Basically makes limber necessary to have on at all times to stay near the current base evades, hopefully it will still allow us some immunity from dodge checking perks (as this is the only thing we defend against reliably) however with the reworking of the NR checking perks (which will now ignore our defense) increase in offensive nanos for people (which ignore our defense), boost to mongo rage (that lets everything ignore our defence) and the fact that aimed shot will still ignore our defence (only hope is that less people will use it as it will be counterable by other classes) we've possibly lost a fair bit here, specially if they also rework the mechanics to allow for regular hits to land more often and to make perks land even against high evaders at least some times.

HoTs: A nerf, a nerf under the guise of no change, same healing amount over time but in a much less helpful manner, considering how the hots were generally failing to be adequate at all past around 170 anyway its just a bit of a kick in the nuts, specially when coupled with the loss of our actual defence from evade nerf.

Power up perks: As stated in first point, the ranged energy line is not going to be advantagous to fixers, it will be unusable in pvp and a pure RE set up will loose every time in pve, only chance of redemption is a smg+RE cross build but that costs 750k ip to gain only around an extra 100 damage per second, and only if you can fire off and land all the ranged energy perks exactly when they recharge constantly, which considering how often mobs die in the middle of perks going off currently and the fact that the perks are forced chain means its unlikely to get near optimal, resulting at best at the same DPS as a current pure SMG fixer but with the cost of much more IP and equipment issues.

[Metalynx]

See, I wouldn't mind that kind of passion from the fixers but most seem to have already resided themselves to the incoming changes.

I think with the significant changes to how engineer nanos work (with tradeskill reqs), fixers could have a few perks or nanos with B&E reqs/checks, making us more of the hacker profession that the forum reading fixer community by and large wants to become.

When you started off being the crappiest profession shunned by many (8+ years ago) then got brought up to being usefull..then overpowered..then screwed unless you have huge cash backing......

You start to just kinda numb after a long time. Even being buggered, you eventually stop feeling it.

[Kotts]

Still waiting to see what, if anything, is done with items before passing any major/final judgement.

[Shaylon]

My opinion is similar to what has been said already here. I'm just waiting and watching. Personally I figure there isn't much of any reason to speak up anymore because FC haven't appeared to do much listening this time and the few things promised haven't been delivered.

I'm still with holding final judgement ...but at the moment as a person with a fixer main the idea of finally quitting AO after six years is starting to look like the end result of the reballancing.

[SoapTarder]

biggest problem will be nr based perks from docs crats mps etc. and the new powerful nukes we will probably see ingame after balancing, together with less heal in short time frames and no spaming of matrix anymore ... well at least less as

to clarify this for some that are reading and not comprehending (casual forum browsers), nano resist will no longer be raised by add all defense after rebalance.

totally agreed though, fixers are lookiing like nuke/nr perk-fodder after rebalance.

[Xenotric]

Were also one of the few evade classes that the changes to AS haven't really stopped it being deadly to as well.

Were dual wielding range users, so chances of swapping out a melee weapon to interrupt the cast time is slim.

Mongo rage buffs more now as well... and we have less evades in total anyway so yeah... they love us, they really do.

[Deninan]

Were also one of the few evade classes that the changes to AS haven't really stopped it being deadly to as well.

I think the hope is that with the changes, less people will use AS, thus giving us more survivability.

My fixer is a pvm toon and I think the slower HoT tick will drastically reduce my survivability while fighting outdoors. There are time when I have to kite to live and the difference of a few seconds is a matter of living or reclaim.

With the rebalance, I was hoping for changes like us not having to perk CoNC (since we already have to give up HUD2 for the hacker interface) but I don't see those kinds of changes coming with this mentality from FC towards the fixer community.

[Xenotric]

Yeah thats hopefully the one good thing, though chances of people keeping an AS weapon to hotswap to against fixers is still there, they may not be able to use it with FA but it still ignores our defence completely.

And to be fair they did reduce the nano requirements of some nanos, mainly the out of combat buff ones (such as summon sws 11) just wish they'd extended this to the short(ish) hots.

[Taranide]

I think fixers have just run out of passion, since profession is getting less interesting to play and master patch after patch. Some would say that a present fixer is an unstoppable killing machine, but anyone who actually plays high end fixer does know that it's based on luck, frustration and very cookie cutter setups. The situation is almost as bad as agents are having it, minus fixer has worst mandatory AS option in game.
Looking at the future the nano changes look like nerfs mostly, unnecessary ones if I may add. Like LICC should not be shorter than 20s to be useful in any sort of situation. Summonin ammo, useful yes if your ranged friends are dumb enough, other than that it's few years late for ammo boxes. And the other changes are just pointless shattering of buff lines. HoT nerf might be okay, since AS is going to be abandoned for most. In the end most of the current changes might look like fun to outsiders. Like aliens probing Uranus that is.
Fixers need more cowbell, not just more AR and gazillion of different buffs to fill the NCU with.

[Kain97]

I think the hope is that with the changes, less people will use AS, thus giving us more survivability.

That might be the hope, but it sure isn't fully thought through, as it'll be more than offset with the likelihood of NR checking perks landing, and the improved nukes many profs seem likely to have.

My fixer is a pvm toon and I think the slower HoT tick will drastically reduce my survivability while fighting outdoors. There are time when I have to kite to live and the difference of a few seconds is a matter of living or reclaim.

What really puzzles me is that keepers, a profession that is fairly multidimensional defensively (decent evades, heal perks, heal auras, bio cocoon, higher hp), gets halved heal amounts and 10 sec ticks as opposed to 20. But fixers, who are pretty one dimensional defensively (strong evades, no heal perks to speak of, among the lowest hp in game, and very vulnerable to spike damage) get stuck with slower hot ticks. If the slow ticks on the keeper nanos needed to be sped up, what makes anyone think "oh, well, I'll bet fixers will love this slower tick rate!" Even ignoring the effects on the fixers themselves, the slower tick rate will make the hots virtually useless to teammates.
Again, if the current keeper aura ticks needed to be sped up, doesn't that tell you the ticks are plain and simply too slow for the game, regardless of profession?

With the rebalance, I was hoping for changes like us not having to perk CoNC (since we already have to give up HUD2 for the hacker interface) but I don't see those kinds of changes coming with this mentality from FC towards the fixer community.

With the release of LE, fixers were pulled in pretty much every direction possible, needing maxed nanoskills as well as dumping considerable ip into full auto. I was hoping this rebalancing would change that somewhat and give us some focus, as well as making what we offer count a bit more - what's the point of ncu buffs when everyone has craploads of ncu space, runbuffs when everyone has capped rs, or meep nanos but ridiculously few places to use them? Fixers are one of those professions that has a ton of potential...and we're going nowhere. At least after the rebalancing we can go there really really fast.