Change how perk checks work.

[Xenotric]

In isolation it would be a bad change. It would allow, for example, shades to run up to a crat and fire off all their perks rapidly along with SA and have a decent shot of killing them. Most evade profs would probably need to see some of their other defences boosted to deal with sudden spike damage. But you can't deny there is something wrong with some profs being 100% perkable or unperkable.

I see no problem with certain classes being unperkable and others not, mainly because of the way the defences work.

A fixer may be unperkable to a shade for instance however they have no defence against the NR checking perks, no defence against AS or SA, no defence against nano attacks and mongo rage allows many weapon perks to land for a duration (even more so after rebalance)

Other people are perkable but they get sturdier defences such as reflects that work on all incoming damage, on demands heals or even absorbs, all of which can work to a point against all the incoming damage.

[Cyberleet]

lletah u're looking at evade professions from the perspective of the agent.

I try not to, plays other classes too in many ranges. Casual builds.

I'm a very offensive player maybe, so...

And you suggest something that would overpower agent against evade profs and while at the same time overpowering every other prof against evade profs.

Think you are over-reacting and limit me + the visioned endcounters too much.

130 shade vs 150 fixer. I think the shade should stand a chance, thats me. Or at least provide something in the battle. Something that for example a 220 agent do vs an engineer...agent vs engineer favors the engineer but agent can still dish out debuffs, snares, and damage.

Same thing with evades should apply. For a lot of players some are almost impossible to kill. Unfun.

So some kind of minimum damage could work fine. A crat could use CC and have a fair chance getting away.

once perks start landing on crats more often they'll have no chance for lack of heals.

Depends entirely on the damage. Some have to perk to stand a chance, and even then it can be rough.

People should die a little in pvp too, no?

As it is now it's a 'all or nothing' thing...so I think people exaggerate the damage. This could even slow down pvp a little and make it less of an fps, as players could tone down the superalphas a little just to succeed in a battle and then win some time to use their own unique toolset even more.

[Gatester]

It is not 100% hit or miss, there is a range close to the points of equal attack and defense skill that causes a random chance roll to begin.

Also, anything that supports a profession being able to spam every perk they have until enough of them land is bad. Enforcers and solds can have 70 perk points in nothing but offensive based lines and spam every single perk option until enough land to guarantee their opponents are dead.

What this would need is a scaling, a greater chance to land at reduced damages.

[Bonghigs]

**snip**

130 shade vs 150 fixer. I think the shade should stand a chance, thats me. Or at least provide something in the battle. Something that for example a 220 agent do vs an engineer...agent vs engineer favors the engineer but agent can still dish out debuffs, snares, and damage.

**snip**

I cut away some stuff to get to what i consider the meat of your argument. Certainly we are all entitled to our own opinions, but i disagree heavily with yours here. Let me elaborate:

First off, your first section puts a lowbie shade against a fixer and says the shade should be able to do something. Here i disagree in general as to me this is the same line of thought that leads to someone who spent no effort twinking/equipping their toon having "equal" chance against someone who did. To me, the reward for spending time/credits/effort/intellect working on your toon is for exactly this advantage in battle... sometimes its huge, sometimes its negligible, but it's there.

The second main flaw in your logic is that your second example uses agents, a classes with some CC/debuffs, as the direct comparison to your shade in the first statement. But you're essentially comparing profession toolkits in an unfair way. Yes, agents should be able to debuff/snare toons "greater than them" and they do on a regular basis; but shades do not have these items as they are a relatively one-dimensional offensive class. Naturally, this means that if they cannot perk/damage someone they cannot do much; it is the design of the class and fully intended. BUT, if you look at most other classes they can assist in the battle with people "greater than them" even if not creating direct damage... crats have auras, docs have heals/debuffs, enfos have fears/area stuns, fixers have snares, traders have aoe roots, etc etc. Using a shade is an unfair comparison in this way and leads to a very skewed vision.

My opinion is that things work pretty well right now (perfect, no. pretty good, yes). To stick with the fixer/evades line of thought, of course it should be exceedingly difficult to perk a fixer as the profession is based around having high evades. But to say they are unperkable is either ignorant (in the truest sense of not knowing the facts) or purposely misleading. Fixers can be perked by enfo's, soldiers and any trox class given some circumstances (just like there are circumstances to assist the fixer in evading these profs). That said, this does not mean that fixers are only weak against those two professions and a breed. Anyone doing nanodamage really hurts fixers... doctors can really hurt fixers... engi's can really hurt fixers... To me this is called balance: fixers are relatively safe from some profs, they get owned by some profs, and there are a bunch of profs in the middle where the fight depends on skill/gear/etc.


/awaits_newb_tldnr;_responses

[Mountaingoat]

Didn't really read any other posts, but why not make perks scale with damage based on AR vs. def rating. IE a fixer gets hit by shade perks for like 700-800 damage instead of 4k-5k.

[Larafina]

and how should a cra,t fixer, ma survive if the get perked by all perks of all proffessions and not only by some proffs with some perks ? we can make perks easy landagble and take away 70% of all dam perks or we can leave it like it is atm. problem is taking away perk dam would op healer, high hp classes so just no to perk landing changes!

[Cyberleet]

First off, your first section puts a lowbie shade against a fixer and says the shade should be able to do something. Here i disagree in general as to me this is the same line of thought that leads to someone who spent no effort twinking/equipping their toon having "equal" chance against someone who did. To me, the reward for spending time/credits/effort/intellect working on your toon is for exactly this advantage in battle... sometimes its huge, sometimes its negligible, but it's there.

I didn't say equal chance

I said a fair chance and that lesser advanced/casual players should provide something.

I agree people with combined and twink-stuff on should have a definite edge, but...

This way pvp becomes more fun for all.

but shades do not have these items as they are a relatively one-dimensional offensive class.

Wait, hold on...shade have heals, evades and things.

Using a shade is an unfair comparison in this way and leads to a very skewed vision.

I think you're being over-analytical, using shade is a great example of how skewed things can be. Remedy Inhibitor is one example of where a lesser-advanced player stand a chance vs endgame agent, and also contribute to the group without actually doing too much VS the agent.

Think that is pretty clever, imo. It's not very fun all actually try pvp twinks on BS for people if they don't stand a chance, can't do anything.

Gatester followed-up my suggestion with a great idea.

[Mostadio]

Yeh would be nice for low AR profs to have at least -some- chance of landing perks. When fighting anything with acrobat I don't even bother pushing perks, I know they won't land.

[delsabre]

What if perks had a 100% hit rate and damage modified by the target's Def Rating?

[Bonghigs]

I didn't say equal chance

I said a fair chance and that lesser advanced/casual players should provide something.

I agree people with combined and twink-stuff on should have a definite edge, but...

This way pvp becomes more fun for all.



Wait, hold on...shade have heals, evades and things.



I think you're being over-analytical, using shade is a great example of how skewed things can be. Remedy Inhibitor is one example of where a lesser-advanced player stand a chance vs endgame agent, and also contribute to the group without actually doing too much VS the agent.

Think that is pretty clever, imo. It's not very fun all actually try pvp twinks on BS for people if they don't stand a chance, can't do anything.

Gatester followed-up my suggestion with a great idea.

Well, doesn't a "fair chance" mean 50/50? Meaning, equal odds? Hint, the answer is yes .

And shades do have heals/evades (what other things, please give examples if you're trying to make a counterpoint) but they are self only and do not affect the tide of battle. SHD could be said to do some damage to an opponent but if we're talking about a completely outclassed shade they likely couldn't cast SHD anyway (since it's so ridiculous to cast without absolutely end-game gear).


I do agree that BS is no fun these days and it's the main reason that i am letting my account run out in a few days. But I attribute that more to population size than skill level; if there was more population, there would be more skilled players and more players in general (increasing challenge, fun, etc).

[Cyberleet]

Well, doesn't a "fair chance" mean 50/50? Meaning, equal odds? Hint, the answer is yes .

No

And shades do have heals/evades (what other things, please give examples if you're trying to make a counterpoint) but they are self only and do not affect the tide of battle.

The point was that it was not a pure offensive class.

I hope things like these are looked at for the rebalance and gaps are shortened a little bit more, so bs is more fun for all without taking the potency away from twinks. Often it's just 'mech up and thank god when it's over'...on that note, mech-combat could be made more advanced