Engineer mines

[Solstiare]

snare aura lands on my NT with nr1 perked on a regular basis. the mine needs a <not in combat> flag.

[Manaas]

You're all....

I give up.

Engineers have TWO pets

BOTH pets can have intrusive aura of slave cast on it

we're NOT talking about mutually exclusive probability

so the probability of one of the pets landing the aura is statistically higher than one pet by itself

What's so hard to understand?

[sultryvoltron]

You're all....

I give up.

Engineers have TWO pets

BOTH pets can have intrusive aura of slave cast on it

we're NOT talking about mutually exclusive probability

so the probability of one of the pets landing the aura is statistically higher than one pet by itself

What's so hard to understand?

Good question, I don't know what's so hard to understand about basic probabilities, but you seem to be consistently doing it wrong.

Sincerely,
SultryVoltron
B.S. Mathematics

[Manaas]

So what did you get? A 3rd?

I can make up degrees I don't have also.

Astrophysics P.H.D lololol

yeah if you're trying to tell me that the probability of one pet with the snare aura landing it on someone is equal to two pets SIMULTANEOUSLY trying to land it on someone you should have failed the degree you are claiming to have.

[sultryvoltron]

So what did you get? A 3rd?

I can make up degrees I don't have also.

Astrophysics P.H.D lololol

yeah if you're trying to tell me that the probability of one pet with the snare aura landing it on someone is equal to two pets SIMULTANEOUSLY trying to land it on someone you should have failed the degree you are claiming to have.

Whether I have a B.S. in Mathematics or not, you seriously need to educate yourself. Take a look at this:

I honestly am telling you that you could have 18 billion pets, and the land rate is still ONLY 4 out of 18 (this is assuming that Kite's numbers for one pet is accurate). So what does this mean in layman's terms? It means every tick of the snare aura, you get hit by 4 billion snares and you resist 14 billion.

Having more pets DOES NOT change the chance to land. After 18 individual trials, about 4 will have landed. Having two pets only changes the amount of time it takes to complete 18 trials.

P.S. I really do have my degree in Math.

[Manaas]

Whether I have a B.S. in Mathematics or not, you seriously need to educate yourself. Take a look at this:

I honestly am telling you that you could have 18 billion pets, and the land rate is still ONLY 4 out of 18 (this is assuming that Kite's numbers for one pet is accurate). So what does this mean in layman's terms? It means every tick of the snare aura, you get hit by 4 billion snares and you resist 14 billion.

Having more pets DOES NOT change the chance to land. After 18 individual trials, about 4 will have landed. Having two pets only changes the amount of time it takes to complete 18 trials.

P.S. I really do have my degree in Math.

Ok I think we are just misunderstanding each other here. Whether or not you have a degree in maths matters very little because this is such an easy concept.

Yes you are correct in saying each INDIVIDUAL pet's rate of landing the snare aura will not change. That is 100% correct.

However engineer's generally use TWO pets, both with snare aura cast on them. As you pointed out the speed that 18 trials are completed will be doubled because you've doubled the number of pets but this is still the same factor, you are not looking at each individual pet's land chance you are looking at them both as a whole.

Do you understand now?

[sultryvoltron]

Ok I think we are just misunderstanding each other here. Whether or not you have a degree in maths matters very little because this is such an easy concept.

Yes you are correct in saying each INDIVIDUAL pet's rate of landing the snare aura will not change. That is 100% correct.

However engineer's generally use TWO pets, both with snare aura cast on them. As you pointed out the speed that 18 trials are completed will be doubled because you've doubled the number of pets but this is still the same factor, you are not looking at each individual pet's land chance you are looking at them both as a whole.

Do you understand now?

Except that's not what you've been saying. You keep repeating that it is statistically higher to land a snare with two pets than with one. That is only true if you are trying to land a snare within a set amount of time.

[drainbamage]

Except that's not what you've been saying. You keep repeating that it is statistically higher to land a snare with two pets than with one. That is only true if you are trying to land a snare within a set amount of time.

...Which is what any reasonable person would assume he meant.

[sultryvoltron]

...Which is what any reasonable person would assume he meant.

Except it was initially called as an argument to counter Kitefear's numbers for one pet landing. The number of pets used doesn't make that post any less valid, as Manaas was claiming.

[Manaas]

Except it was initially called as an argument to counter Kitefear's numbers for one pet landing. The number of pets used doesn't make that post any less valid, as Manaas was claiming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitesfear
Out of common curiosity, I just hugged my engie's KFC-bot for 7 and half minutes on my MA. The aura ticked 18 times, 4 times it landed on the MA. I can't really call that reliable way to slow someone down. =P

you regularly only use one pet?


Ok so you're good at maths but you clearly cannot read.

[Kitesfear]

Still, I have no reason to believe that even with two pets, the aura wouldn't land about 4 times of every 18 tries on my MA.

then you're utterly deluded or just not telling the truth.

Ok so you're good at maths but you clearly cannot read.

While I am by no means trying to restart this, to be honest, rather amusing debate, but everyone else (and every now and then even you) have spoken of the land rate, which would still be, in the example above, 4/18, which is about 22,2%, no matter if I'd use one or two pets, and that was all I was trying to get thru with my post.

[sultryvoltron]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitesfear
Out of common curiosity, I just hugged my engie's KFC-bot for 7 and half minutes on my MA. The aura ticked 18 times, 4 times it landed on the MA. I can't really call that reliable way to slow someone down. =P

you regularly only use one pet?


Ok so you're good at maths but you clearly cannot read.

Ok, so full circle again. Using one pet or 20 pets, the land rate is still 4 out of 18.

If he were using two pets his statement would go something like:

"Our of common curiosity, I just hugged my engie's KFC-bot and Doggy for 7 and a half minutes on my MA. The aura ticked 36 times, 8 times it landed on the MA. I can't really call that a reliable way to slow someone down. =P"

Landrate is still .22 per tick, which is what he claims is unreliable.

[-Stage-]

That was awesome. Thoroughly enjoyed thread, would read again.

[Manaas]

Ok, so full circle again. Using one pet or 20 pets, the land rate is still 4 out of 18.

If he were using two pets his statement would go something like:

"Our of common curiosity, I just hugged my engie's KFC-bot and Doggy for 7 and a half minutes on my MA. The aura ticked 36 times, 8 times it landed on the MA. I can't really call that a reliable way to slow someone down. =P"

Landrate is still .22 per tick, which is what he claims is unreliable.

land rate PER PET is .22 per tick

how can you still not understand????

You even wrote in your post that it would land 8 times instead of 4 if you used 2 pets, the number of trials is irrelevant to this discussion as we are looking ONLY at the number of successes in the given time period.

8>4 it is that simple, if you still fail to understand and continue to ramble on about your "land rate" then I hope that nobody else will be tricked into going to this university where you apparently obtained your MSc in Maths.

[sultryvoltron]

Out of common curiosity, I just hugged my engie's KFC-bot for 7 and half minutes on my MA. The aura ticked 18 times, 4 times it landed on the MA. I can't really call that reliable way to slow someone down. =P

you regularly only use one pet?

^ Read these two posts again.

Tell me what you think it means.


To me, it seems like you are questioning the validity of the landrate of snare auras because he uses one pet and not two. The landrate is the landrate. The only reason you would test with one pet only is to verify the landrate. That's what Kite was saying. The LANDRATE DOES NOT GO UP BECAUSE YOU USE MORE PETS.

Also, for some reason you think that 7 and a half minutes is a reasonable timeframe to measure the number of successful lands of the snare aura. Let's take a different look at this. 4/7.5 = .533 successful lands per minute.

So with two pets we have just slightly over 1 successful snare per minute.

So, all of this boils down to something very simple. The landrate for the snare aura is pretty crappy, using one pet or two.

[Kitesfear]

Still, I have no reason to believe that even with two pets, the aura wouldn't land about 4 times of every 18 tries on my MA.

then you're utterly deluded

land rate PER PET is .22 per tick

You even wrote in your post that it would land 8 times instead of 4 if you used 2 pets, the number of trials is irrelevant to this discussion as we are looking ONLY at the number of successes in the given time period.

You have been arguing for the whole time against the first quote in this message. It ESPECIALLY states that the land rate should be (taking the unreliability of the propability in such a small sample in account) 4 out of 18 tries. No more, no less.
On top of that, the land rate is the same per pet or counting them together, as the number of tries is dependant on the number of the pets. .22 per tick. Even with 70 pets.

First, I thought you were a troll, then I thought you just were way out of your depth with your silly ad hominems, and now I just lost interest.

If nothing else, this thread has yet again reinforced my belief that 90% of the world's population are more stupid than average.

[Manaas]

Originally Posted by Kitesfear
Still, I have no reason to believe that even with two pets, the aura wouldn't land about 4 times of every 18 tries on my MA.

you STILL believe that with two pets that it would not land more than 4 times out of 18?

You clearly belong in the 90% of the people more stupid than average.

Land rate is the same for each pet, we have established this. That is our constant

HOWEVER: what changes is the amount of trials, because you have TWO FREAKING PETS.

If you're too blind to notice that 4/18 is the same as 8/36 then god help us, what are our schools teaching children these days.

[Kitesfear]

you STILL believe that with two pets that it would not land more than 4 times out of 18?

If you're too blind to notice that 4/18 is the same as 8/36 then god help us, what are our schools teaching children these days.

I really don't even know what to reply to this. You're pure gold, I must admit.


I'll just ask you one question...
If I'd had two pets in my little test, how many times you'd think they had landed the snare on my MA if they had tried 18 times counted together? 4 times, or maybe more, or even less? Why is that?

Good. Now read the first sentence I quoted in this message.

[Manaas]

I really don't even know what to reply to this. You're pure gold, I must admit.


I'll just ask you one question...
If I'd had two pets in my little test, how many times you'd think they had landed the snare on my MA if they had tried 18 times counted together? 4 times, or maybe more, or even less? Why is that?

Good. Now read the first sentence I quoted in this message.

2 pets, same amount of time (7minutes whatever)

i can say with absolute CERTAINTY that the snare aura would have landed more than 4 times if we take 2/9 as the land rate per pet.

If you're going to try and deny that then there's seriously something wrong with you.

[Kitesfear]

2 pets, same amount of time (7minutes whatever)

i can say with absolute CERTAINTY that the snare aura would have landed more than 8 times if we take 2/9 as the land rate per pet.

Ok. Let's drop the original argument and numbers*, and use these in this quote.

This we know for sure:
We have a landing rate of 2 of every 9 tries (per pet).
We use 2 pets.
The time the test runs is 7 and half minutes.
The tick rate is once every 25 seconds per pet.
Each pet tries to land the aura 18 times.

Now, to the calculations:
The pets, counted together, will try to land the snare aura 36 times. (2*18 times)
Using the aforementioned landing rate of 2 hits per 9 tries, (36/9*2)
we now come to the estimated total amount of landed snares, (36/9*2 = 8)
and declare the argument solved.

Care to point out where, in the calculations above, I am in the error, my dear friend?
Or, in this specific case, is 8 > 8?


*The original argument you attacked against had no mention of time in it, you just claimed that two pets would land more snares with 18 tries (counted together) than one pet. Which, of course, is load of bollocks too.

PS. 90%