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Thread: New Doctor Nano Document!

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonemuss View Post
    Dont know if docs will lose the 3 000 add hp from the 220 Single heal but if....they ll lose around 4-5 000 points of heal..... but thats not all, they ll lose more cause of heal eff. .... for example my doc got 43% heal eff. ....now start calculation.....
    Look waaaay over in the right hand column of these docs. The numbers all assume we're all running around with 50% healmod (on top of capped cost, apparently, as well). I'm pretty sure there aren't a whole awful lot of setups for endgame docs today have have 50% healmod, capped cost, and anything else interesting at all. And even capped costs on non-NM likely won't cut it either, by the looks of things.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    You've also not seen what the primary nano-replenishing professions, NT, MP, Trader, can do to help you with nanocost.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonemuss View Post
    Talking about Doc as support Prof is a really good point but all professions can do sth solo so why should doc be able to do as well as other porfs....

    About the nano Cost.... As i saw it will be porblem for doc to spam heals all the time..... and then they took away some healing power .....
    Dont know if docs will lose the 3 000 add hp from the 220 Single heal but if....they ll lose around 4-5 000 points of heal..... but thats not all, they ll lose more cause of heal eff. ....
    for example my doc got 43% heal eff. ....now start calculation.....

    About spaming heals.....why that cool down? normaly nanos that "use nanobots very hard" have a cooldown....but single heal from doc?

    As result.... Doc is for healing so its not needed to raise dmg so much but lower heals ?

    Doc is The Healing Profession so why lowering that much?
    If funcom raise the nano cost really that much i want an item ingame (just for docs) with 500 nano delta -.-
    and think about the developing docs with are only lvl 216 or sth like that with lower symbs :/


    Can't understand this extreme changes.....
    I think they are trying to close the gap between doc and advy/MA healing, having 1 out of 14 professions mandatory for every 6 man team doesn't cut it.. You need to be able to replace the doc with ether 2 advys or 3 MAs or some combination of the 2. Today however a single doc heals about as much as what, 3 or 4 Advys?

    Its simply not balanced in that aspect, why doc heals have to get nerfed (and hopefully boss DD also), while Advy and MA need abit of a heal boost..

    (Not to mention that it was next to impossible to kill a doc in PvP using only pure DD earlier)
    Last edited by Rktim; Jan 18th, 2011 at 12:29:30.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    You've also not seen what the primary nano-replenishing professions, NT, MP, Trader, can do to help you with nanocost.
    I haven't had one help me so far except with nano aura if in team and Notum Overload if I ask nicely. I doubt that'll change.

    FC made the changes to nanocost for a reason. They didn't make it just to hand NT/Trader/MP more replenishing tools, so doctors (and other profs) wouldn't feel the difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rktim View Post
    I think they are trying to close the gap between doc and advy/MA healing
    Then please close the damage gap as well. Both advy and MA have superior defenses if you look at everything but healing. Healing is what defines doctors, so why make their one profession defining tool more like other profs? I don't know how the change in healing amount and nano cost will play out along with the changes to specials - but doctors are very vulnerable to changes in this area since it is the only defense they have.
    Last edited by Avari; Jan 18th, 2011 at 14:02:47.
    Avari 220/30/80 - Araghos 220/30/80 - Shishido 220/30/7x - Araninn 220/30/80

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergx
    If one of the few traders are PvPing around you and land GTH on you, take a trip to decon and it will be gone. What's the big deal hehe.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Avari View Post
    I haven't had one help me so far except with nano aura if in team and Notum Overload if I ask nicely. I doubt that'll change.

    FC made the changes to nanocost for a reason. They didn't make it just to hand NT/Trader/MP more replenishing tools, so doctors (and other profs) wouldn't feel the difference.
    Except you already get a self-nanoheal and NTs will get much better nanoregain buffs, not really sure what you mean with the "notum overload if you ask nicely"-part, since that gives you a higher nanocost. There's no reason atm to buff anyone with much of anything as NT, since noone runs out of nano the way it is today. PNH and IOR used to be quite necessary nanos to avoid downtime for restoring nano between fights. Traders will also get more nano supporting nanos. I figure MPs will as well, since they have them already and many roles have been split out among other professions.
    And yes they of course made the changes for a reason. To promote teamwork in order to make a more dynamic combat experience. While it can still be possible to run out of nano with buffs running, if you don't do things right while you have it, nanoregain and cost reduction will help you last longer and have shorter downtime between fights.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Except you already get a self-nanoheal.
    Contrary to the incorrect stats in the docs, it's not a "self-nanoheal," it's an "HP to nano" drain, which in any situation where you need it will probably = /terminate. Just like the new "heal" that soldiers got.

  7. #67
    Hi, being a doctor and give regular dependable healing can be a hard job as it is. With HoT, UBT lasting shorter, and 3-4 times nano cost on regular healing, it will make playng doc much harder, and less fun, fail rate (that is team member dies) will increase.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    And allies have means to increase your nanopool (especially MPs, with new improved perks and god knows how OP'd nanos that are on the way), so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rktim View Post
    And allies have means to increase your defenses lessening your need to heal (especially soldiers with reflects and enfos with absorbs), so....

    Edit: Think il just keep going...

    And allies have means to assist you with healing (especially Adventurers), so....
    Maybe I've had crappy team mates but for the most part I rarely, if ever, see an MP hit Spirit of Purity or someone stim me. My nano regen comes from me and me alone 90% of the time.

    I know, in "paper playing" we like to think of the ideal team with people are actually considerate and helpful but for the most part end game raids like APF or Pande are filled with people to concerned about their rank in DamageDumps or are slacking as much as they can get away with to get to their phats easily. Those types of people common in raids are not interested in throwing a stim at a doc.

    Furthermore, as I stated in the Doctor forums, I don't like the prospect of the game becoming "Sorry guys I can't doc pande cause there's no NT around". I don't want to be mediocre, regardless of the billions I spend on gear, until I get "that ideal profession" couple that lets me do my job.
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  9. #69
    In all fairness I'm not worried about healing nanocost in raid situations. Pure healing on another toon that has defenses on it's own and with a raidforce worth of buffs it shouldn't be a problem.

    Nanocost issues are more the ridiculous cost of using any offense and in pvp to keep yourself alive. Pvm team wise remains to be seen for pure healing we should be fine just don't expect to use any of your offensive stuff while being on heal duty. Solo wise the cost of offense is too high to sustain max performance.

    Edit:
    A snippet of quick calcs I had made. Full table is in Kaz Dr. Nano thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    Code:
    						Base (no NCR)					50% NCR		
    				Recharge	Nanocost 	Nano/sec	Nano/2sec	Nanocost 	Nano/sec	Nano/2sec
    Combined UBT+Dots+Base Nuke					1253,78		2507,57				626,89		1253,78
    Combined BI+Hot+Temp HP						559,81		1119,62				279,91		559,81
    560 nanodrain/2s with 50% cost and a maxed out nanodelta of 300/2s will allow spamming of BI and stuff for some time. The teamheals are more annoying ofc.
    Last edited by XenonDe; Jan 18th, 2011 at 21:47:31.
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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    I've had crappy team mates
    Exactly.
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    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  11. #71
    I'm not sure where this whole myth of docs never running out of nano came from... sure, if I'm purely healing (and ubt'ing ofc) my nano will last for one hell of a long time. As soon as I try to throw in some offense though, I can easily drain my 14k pool in 1 minute (or less if using malp...). I play my doc everyday, have capped -cost, max ND from symbs and carry the highest QL stims I can use... If I have to keep more than 1 mob dot'ed, my nano goes byebye VERY fast. In pvp I can drain it in under 30s with malp and dots, then sit there praying for my ring to proc.
    Is that really what this rebalance is all about? The fact that one person can't kill me by themselves? Big deal... I can't even scratch someone while I'm using my "defense", they just sit there and laugh at me until a friend comes along to help finish me off >.<

  12. #72
    I can tell you exactly where it comes from. The nano bar in the team window of doctors playing healpet only. Non spammed BI without further nanos can be sustained quite long. That it doesn't translate over into offense and pvp no one seems to consider.
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    I can tell you exactly where it comes from. The nano bar in the team window of doctors playing healpet only. Non spammed BI without further nanos can be sustained quite long. That it doesn't translate over into offense and pvp no one seems to consider.
    This...
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Exactly.
    Well at least you haven't changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izus View Post
    Is that really what this rebalance is all about? The fact that one person can't kill me by themselves?
    Also, since Funcom is constantly saying "We aren't balancing for 1v1" why are things being changed because "Docs never run out of nano" based on 1v1 fights?

    If the Doc has to heal more often, thanks to more damage, or cast more DoTs/Malp, thanks to more targets they need to take down, or, having to cast more heals if they're actually trying to help keep their allies alive rather then just be the typical "lone wolf" in BS: their nano will run out.

    Is it all stemming from what Xenon said or are there people who see some Doc in BS who can just heal forever and figure their nanopool is still full (cause you know, they can see that..) or something? I know a lot of people figure they're so great and whoever kills them, or fails to die to them, must be OP so some of it could stem from that too.
    Last edited by Ayria; Jan 19th, 2011 at 09:08:10.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    not really sure what you mean with the "notum overload if you ask nicely"-part, since that gives you a higher nanocost.
    Right, wrong buff - you should read what I mean and not what I write ofcourse

    That said, the problem for doctors and team work is, that while there's plenty of encouragement for us to be in a team, then there's little incentive for other professions. Top that with your average PvPer who cares only about his single kills, and you have a situation where doctors are left alone looking for a team that doesn't consist of greenies trying to farm VP.

    Thinking that doctors will be able to count on nano from other people (even when teamed) is utopia. It looks good on paper, but take my word for it, when I say, that it doesn't work in reality.

    Oh, and btw - doctors do run out of nano with the current game mechanics. It takes some fighting, but we do - and when was the last time you heard of a quick doctor fight where it wasn't the doctor ending up dead?

    I think it's fine to run out of nano - but it's the only worthwhile defense doctors have, so it's very important that it's done right, so we don't end up with yet another broken class.
    Last edited by Avari; Jan 19th, 2011 at 11:20:09.
    Avari 220/30/80 - Araghos 220/30/80 - Shishido 220/30/7x - Araninn 220/30/80

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergx
    If one of the few traders are PvPing around you and land GTH on you, take a trip to decon and it will be gone. What's the big deal hehe.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    Also, since Funcom is constantly saying "We aren't balancing for 1v1" why are things being changed because "Docs never run out of nano" based on 1v1 fights?

    If the Doc has to heal more often, thanks to more damage, or cast more DoTs/Malp, thanks to more targets they need to take down, or, having to cast more heals if they're actually trying to help keep their allies alive rather then just be the typical "lone wolf" in BS: their nano will run out.

    Is it all stemming from what Xenon said or are there people who see some Doc in BS who can just heal forever and figure their nanopool is still full (cause you know, they can see that..) or something? I know a lot of people figure they're so great and whoever kills them, or fails to die to them, must be OP so some of it could stem from that too.
    More like, because good docs - these days - can't die or run out of nanos even to two opponents (short of a perfect profession combination of high dd, stuns and/or high nanoskill/nanopool drain potential and a good players coordination), while having a high damage output thanks to Malp and Pistol perks. They might not have a everlastingly full nanopool, but they can maintain their nanopool so long that in a real fight, even with two opponents, the opponents (or the doc) will prolly be dead of have given up before the doc scraps the last bits off the bottom of his nanopool.
    Being near-immortal in 1vs1 sounds okish in team-based pvp environment, but being that close from near-immortality against even 2 opponents is a tad bit too much.
    Last edited by Shrubberyman; Jan 19th, 2011 at 13:09:31.
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    More like, because good docs - these days - can't die or run out of nanos even to two opponents (short of a perfect profession combination of high dd, stuns and/or high nanoskill/nanopool drain potential and a good players coordination), while having a high damage output thanks to Malp and Pistol perks. They might not have a everlastingly full nanopool, but they can maintain their nanopool so long that in a real fight, even with two opponents, the opponents (or the doc) will prolly be dead of have given up before the doc scraps the last bits off the bottom of his nanopool.
    Being near-immortal in 1vs1 sounds okish in team-based pvp environment, but being that close from near-immortality against even 2 opponents is a tad bit too much.
    This scenario is one of a full endgame setup doc against mediocre other profesions. I have a 218 Nm doc and in PvP its is really simple. anything that can stun me can kill me. Anything with a little bit of NR or evades I can't kill. Since we have no passive defenses or specials like limber/dof or coon we aren't that hard to kill. And if we get our inits debuffed then anything can interupt our heals since they have a 9 sec casting time meaning we have to be at least 75% offence to be able to instacast them.

    And don't blame this on me or my equip. Both are fine.

  18. #78
    docs have to worry about two capping specials from any one DD prof (any two of FA/AS/SA). yes. while true that we can heal a bunch, if two people save specials and coordinate an attack incorporating just one stun, our pitiful 5k absorb and 15% DTN isn't going to save anyone. good pvp enfos have what? 3-4 stuns + brawl? shades have stun perks + procs? crats are rofl espcially the remod crats that perk freak str3 and have an FA solja butt buddy.

    docs are nowhere near invincible. especially not in tl7 pvp against any fotm profession.

    EDIT: a doctor will not die 1v1 against a profession that a) can't debuff or b) can't stun. this is a fact. that's fine. it's the same way a crat can't die to an engie. or an NR8 MA can't die to an NT. or NT's bend fixers over and spank them with doubles from max range. this is all fine an dandy. but dut saying doctors are immortal is taking it a bit far.
    Last edited by CuisinartBlade; Jan 19th, 2011 at 14:24:14.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    docs have to worry about two capping specials from any one DD prof (any two of FA/AS/SA). yes. while true that we can heal a bunch, if two people save specials and coordinate an attack incorporating just one stun, our pitiful 5k absorb and 15% DTN isn't going to save anyone. good pvp enfos have what? 3-4 stuns + brawl? shades have stun perks + procs? crats are rofl espcially the remod crats that perk freak str3 and have an FA solja butt buddy.

    docs are nowhere near invincible. especially not in tl7 pvp against any fotm profession.

    EDIT: a doctor will not die 1v1 against a profession that a) can't debuff or b) can't stun. this is a fact. that's fine. it's the same way a crat can't die to an engie. or an NR8 MA can't die to an NT. or NT's bend fixers over and spank them with doubles from max range. this is all fine an dandy. but dut saying doctors are immortal is taking it a bit far.
    no.
    stop analyzing new nanodocuments how they would work with current game mechanics. thats just pointless because you wont be able to do that not before or after rebalance.

    and why you want to already analyze docs pvp performance anyway if you have absolutely no clue how other professions will work in future?
    Last edited by Otansaanpas; Jan 19th, 2011 at 16:08:01.
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    More like, because good docs - these days - can't die or run out of nanos even to two opponents (short of a perfect profession combination of high dd, stuns and/or high nanoskill/nanopool drain potential and a good players coordination), while having a high damage output thanks to Malp and Pistol perks. They might not have a everlastingly full nanopool, but they can maintain their nanopool so long that in a real fight, even with two opponents, the opponents (or the doc) will prolly be dead of have given up before the doc scraps the last bits off the bottom of his nanopool.
    Being near-immortal in 1vs1 sounds okish in team-based pvp environment, but being that close from near-immortality against even 2 opponents is a tad bit too much.
    You forgot the part where the doctor won't kill anyone with AS spam and perks though.

    Outside of the lulzy AS we have and the 80% def check perks for those docs with pistols we have no way of doing damage to anyone while healing ourselves. Yes local cooldowns will help this however we will likely lose AS and our offensive toolset still is 100% nr def check except for 1 dot line and our nanos today already get resisted 2/3s of the time.

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