Nerf AO

[Shareida]

On that token I'd like to say what I have said a million times before, please lower the AC of SL mobs. Having such high AC only does one thing which is extremely narrowing the choice of weapons we have to use there. If the OP's changes were to actually go through then a lowering of mobs HP along with this lowering of AC would be a good thing as well.

Couldn´t have said it better. High AC monsters in SL FORCE players down the pipe of two or max three weapons at endgame.

For traders it is: S4, Wyrm, Xan shotty and Silverback.

With monsters at manageable AC´s the choices would include every shotgun with a decent MBS. Such as Krutt assault, Home defender, Impressive Presence Shotty(Damn i love that one), just to name a few.

I love my two bags full of toys, but i only use them on RK raids or aliens.

Edit: I did have a comparison of Endgame guns and oldschool shotguns. The Krutt Assault, Vektor dual wielded, and the Vektor dragon are not that far behind on DPM as the endgame guns on low AC. soon as we get into the 20k+ ranges, the performance is poor. A max ql Krutt does actually outperfom The S4 and Silverback with a crit modifier over 45%.

[Azogoss]

First Off i don't often post on these forums,

However from what i have seen written about these balance changes they are for two reasons:

1. PVP to supposely balance it lol.

2. To make ao challenging to the point to gain anything you need to team up even for the silliest lame mobs in sl like or even the toughest mobs on rk even when your at 220 with good equipment. And if you think it is bad for paying profs what about froobs? they are going to get even weaker in comparison.

I personally cannot see the point of these changes if they are going to totally nerf pvm and by the looks of it they will (particularly the changes to nano costs on heals for doc's, Ma's and i suppose too for advies when the doc's come out, i dunno how fixer's will be affected tbh).

All know is if this toons ability to solo stuff gets nerfed i will quit ao for good and i suspect a fair few pvmer's will too. these huge changes really shouldn't have been considered before fixing noob island and getting the dx9 video engine out and then being done with a larger game population to test them out for both pvm and pvp.

So i side with Beri (my ex org mate and friend) on this one.

[Mountaingoat]

Did you read the part where he said nerf the AAO modifiers as well?

Does any class have 2k+ aao static?

[sultryvoltron]

Should any prof have 2k+ AAD static?

Assuming of course that MR doesn't exist, and neither does alien armor.

[quieter456]

Should any prof have 2k+ AAD static?

Assuming of course that MR doesn't exist, and neither does alien armor.

Only two profs tend to have that much.

Fixer could reach about 2400 if they wanted, although a practical setup has about 2k.

A crat has about 2k.

All the other classes are at least a few hundred points short. To say that this much AAD on its own is overpowered would be misleading - crats and fixers are rarely able to fight toe to toe, while an enforcer or adv with 1000 less static aad can easily do so.

[Mountaingoat]

Should any prof have 2k+ AAD static?

Assuming of course that MR doesn't exist, and neither does alien armor.

While I largely agree with the OP, halving aao is not equal to halving aad (and seeing as how it's McKnuckle I'm sure he's all gung ho for that). Making an absolutely zero healing profession, ie crats, perkable whilst having no other form of damage mitigation is ludicrous. Same could largely be said for fixers, who at least have mind boggling amounts of healing compared to crats ().

AO being "too evadey" sure. Opening up evade professions to entire perk alphas willy nilly? Uh no. I'd go for a graduated scale, ie evades reducing damage of perks (grazing hits and all that...?), or having a percentage chance of landing, or a combination of both.

[sultryvoltron]

While I largely agree with the OP, halving aao is not equal to halving aad (and seeing as how it's McKnuckle I'm sure he's all gung ho for that). Making an absolutely zero healing profession, ie crats, perkable whilst having no other form of damage mitigation is ludicrous. Same could largely be said for fixers, who at least have mind boggling amounts of healing compared to crats ().

AO being "too evadey" sure. Opening up evade professions to entire perk alphas willy nilly? Uh no. I'd go for a graduated scale, ie evades reducing damage of perks (grazing hits and all that...?), or having a percentage chance of landing, or a combination of both.

How much AR could different professions push without the utter retardation that is Combined armor?

In my mind, it would balance out fairly well, but I will honestly admit I could be wrong.

[Lazy]

RE: def

at 213 my fixer has around 1400 aad and i'm still missing 500ish from sws11 and 1 perk locked to 219. (that's on top of around 2k eveades putting me at 3400 def rating)

How much AR could different professions push without the utter retardation that is Combined armor?

In my mind, it would balance out fairly well, but I will honestly admit I could be wrong.

fixers would lose a grand total of *80* ar total from taking off combined. most use ofab chest already so they'd lose 6*30+ 6*15 = 270. however the ofab helmet adds 50 AAO and both sleeves add 40 smg each. that's not including whatever pants boots and gloves that add smg or ar or both that are ingame that i'm too lazy to look up atm (probably carlos danger pants and some other crap)

so really losing combined isn't so much the loss of AR as it is the loss of EVERYTHING ELSE! 180 all evades, 90 AAD, 240 inits, 180 AS, FA, Burst... it's a LOT. the one thing that WOULDN'T be affected though, is AR.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Halving AO and halving AAD are different. I'm not sure what the effect would be, but I highly doubt it would make "evade" profs all of a sudden "perkable"

The point isn't to change the dynamic between profs, the point is that there's too damn much of it in game.

[sultryvoltron]

fixers would lose a grand total of *80* ar total from taking off combined. most use ofab chest already so they'd lose 6*30+ 6*15 = 270. however the ofab helmet adds 50 AAO and both sleeves add 40 smg each. that's not including whatever pants boots and gloves that add smg or ar or both that are ingame that i'm too lazy to look up atm (probably carlos danger pants and some other crap)

so really losing combined isn't so much the loss of AR as it is the loss of EVERYTHING ELSE! 180 all evades, 90 AAD, 240 inits, 180 AS, FA, Burst... it's a LOT. the one thing that WOULDN'T be affected though, is AR.

First of all, I don't follow your math. You're counting something that I'm not.

Also, you make the assumption that all Fixers will drop their combined armor, and replace it with some other AR based armor. Don't you think many Fixers will replace their combined armor with a mix of gear that gives AR and Def? Or even some AS pieces such as Artillery Crepescule?

[Mountaingoat]

Halving AO and halving AAD are different. I'm not sure what the effect would be, but I highly doubt it would make "evade" profs all of a sudden "perkable"

The point isn't to change the dynamic between profs, the point is that there's too damn much of it in game.

Assuming an average crat def rating of around 3.7k today, halving aad drops crats to around 2.7k. How many professions could perk that even with halved aao? A crat's actual evades minus the aad are only around 1800-1900 and dark blue. AAD is everything to crats.

Fixers would drop to 3.2k/3.5k (evadeclsc/dodge) but would still have limber & dof.

Lowering stats I'm all for, but as you say, it shouldn't change the dynamic between profs.

[sultryvoltron]

Assuming an average crat def rating of around 3.7k today, halving aad drops crats to around 2.7k. How many professions could perk that even with halved aao? A crat's actual evades minus the aad are only around 1800-1900 and dark blue. AAD is everything to crats.

Fixers would drop to 3.2k/3.5k (evadeclsc/dodge) but would still have limber & dof.

Lowering stats I'm all for, but as you say, it shouldn't change the dynamic between profs.

I agree. I guess I didn't make that very clear, but I fully agree with this point.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Assuming an average crat def rating of around 3.7k today, halving aad drops crats to around 2.7k. How many professions could perk that even with halved aao? A crat's actual evades minus the aad are only around 1800-1900 and dark blue. AAD is everything to crats.

Fixers would drop to 3.2k/3.5k (evadeclsc/dodge) but would still have limber & dof.

Lowering stats I'm all for, but as you say, it shouldn't change the dynamic between profs.

crats are a messed up prof, anyway. their whole evade system is fully broken.

they need an overhaul, imo.

[jorricane]

Consider: Perks don't check AC's, Min damage doesn't check AC's, SA, AS, dimach, don't check Evades, MR doesn't (pseudo) check evades, so, out of the three original combat checks, we are only using 1 of them, and, we're only using that 1 about 30-50% of the time. (really, most damage in PVP is done by MR ganks, SA and AS)

Agree with absolutely everything you have said in this thread. However, perks do check ACs. Hit a BY leet with anything from an AI champion line, then try the same on an Ado heckler. The leet will be hit with the max damage the perk can do, the heck will be hit with the least. Most perks have a damage range (there are a couple exceptions) albeit a small one. By the level you get a given perk, the mobs you tend to be fighting have sufficient ACs to bring it to min.

[JustinSane4]

I get the idea behind this, and I see how it would make content that has grown stale for veteran players interesting again. But it would also make endgame equipment much more difficult to get. Which means that those who have most of the stuff they need already would be fine, but new players will really struggle to get endgame equipment. Taking this step would be essentially writing off the possibility that many new players will stick around IMHO.

[Camar]

Yup, with this suggestion you would single handedly kill AO for all but a few Vets...

[sultryvoltron]

Yup, with this suggestion you would single handedly kill AO for all but a few Vets...

You're wrong. I'm not gonna bother explaining it.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Agree with absolutely everything you have said in this thread. However, perks do check ACs. Hit a BY leet with anything from an AI champion line, then try the same on an Ado heckler. The leet will be hit with the max damage the perk can do, the heck will be hit with the least. Most perks have a damage range (there are a couple exceptions) albeit a small one. By the level you get a given perk, the mobs you tend to be fighting have sufficient ACs to bring it to min.

I don't recall this. I haven't played for a couple weeks, and I can't log in to check it.

But, I do recall seeing slightly different damages from the champion line perks, however, I don't think it's as you say.

I have only seen min damage (same as max damage) on all mobs. The min/max dmg is 2800 for fuzz, crave, 3500 for nanofeast.

BUT, if you have one of the others running before the other, it will do more damage, I'm not sure how much more though. I know that if you use fuzz then feast, it will do more damage, but, thats the only noticable effect I've seen.

All other perk damage seems to be random, and not involve an AC check, if my memory serves.

@camar: I completely disagree. I have a 220 advy with full research done, QL 270ish symbs in, and full CC, and not 1 piece of beast armour on him (beast wasn't dropping BOC for the 4-5 months I spent farming pande, and after that affair, I completely gave up... it just broke my will for pande), and he performs JUST FINE, without boc+hypocrisy+alpha's.

He's not ranged, either, btw.

[mr_road]

I don't recall this. I haven't played for a couple weeks, and I can't log in to check it.

But, I do recall seeing slightly different damages from the champion line perks, however, I don't think it's as you say.

I have only seen min damage (same as max damage) on all mobs. The min/max dmg is 2800 for fuzz, crave, 3500 for nanofeast.

BUT, if you have one of the others running before the other, it will do more damage, I'm not sure how much more though. I know that if you use fuzz then feast, it will do more damage, but, thats the only noticable effect I've seen.

All other perk damage seems to be random, and not involve an AC check, if my memory serves.

@camar: I completely disagree. I have a 220 advy with full research done, QL 270ish symbs in, and full CC, and not 1 piece of beast armour on him (beast wasn't dropping BOC for the 4-5 months I spent farming pande, and after that affair, I completely gave up... it just broke my will for pande), and he performs JUST FINE, without boc+hypocrisy+alpha's.

He's not ranged, either, btw.

nano feast is -3500 .. -4800.

with respect to perks, AC takes effect in PVM but not in PVP. the low dd shade perks always hit min in pvm but not in pvp.

[JustinSane4]

Your argument is that your 220 Adv in full combined is fine with slightly sub-optimal symbs? I wonder if the same would be true for a 220 MP or similarly less favored profession. In any case, there will still be a vast disparity between the haves (those who got their farming largely done with the difficulty as it is now) and the have nots (those who didn't). And ironically, the only ones realistically capable of farming endgame gear after such a change will be those that already have it.