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Thread: Friday with Means - February 25th, 2011 - The dust is settling

  1. #101
    gotta admit i come on the site every friday with my fingers crossed that i'll see some really great news about the engine/balancing/anything infact.

    As far as all these trolls go, its just clear that everyone is really passionate about the game, but people have different ways of showing it.
    Yeah i'm one of the unsubscribed, but I do still think fondly of the game, and the second something entices me back, ill be there.
    Lots of valid points are made by the community, increase xp gains across the board, make it easier to enjoy the top end content rather than slogging in missions. side switching over 200. Instance as much as possible to get rid of the pyramid scheming bots.

    Although i will hand it to Means, and the rest of the dev team, they do inform when they can, they're not lying, why would they? All they're trying to do is say "look we're working on it" it's not as if they sit around playing angry birds. Sit tight!

  2. #102
    Alright lets not kid each other..

    For how long are we going to be impressed with the new engine when it gets here? I mean yeah, we'll stare at the pretty water, we'll run through the grass for a bit, and then all the same ol' problems of AO will come back in full force. Frankly, I think Means is an intelligent man and understands this: you guys are acting like the new engine is the second coming of Jesus, when in reality it'll just be another good new thing like alien dailies.

    So I personally applaud the team for working on the nifty little 'other things' alluded to by means in his concluding paragraph. We need other things besides an awesome new engine too.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwop View Post
    Wind has done quite a lot for the AO community over the years. Even if you don't always agree with him, he does deserve a level of respect. I like to think that everyone in the AO community does, actually, but times do seem to be changing.

    Optimist or Pessimist, your attitude, and the attitudes of others, are not going to change anything. So given the choice between happy or miserable, why choose to be miserable? If the game bothers you that much go play something that makes you happy.

    The rest of us will keep enjoying our time in AO.
    QFT.

    Lets count the ratio of constructive, positive threads to the ones that contain some complaint about Funcoms incompetence on "such and such" an issue.

    We all know damn well which has the larger number, by far, and that's the negative posts. We as a community, hell; as a human race, love misery. We love to bitch and moan and complain about things because it makes us feel as if we're somehow making the world better by pushing others into action for improvement.

    The problem is this makes us all come across as - well,. As opposed to someone as productive as Vhab, Xyphos, Docaholic, Wind etc we just sit around and lash the whip expecting others to do things for us and okay, ya, they're a company and their providing us a service. But that service is a game, not their undivided attention/loyalty/friendship/etc. Nor is it a free ticket to get whatever information out of them, or suggestion we have put into the product. We pay for it as is, if/when it changes we continue to make the choice of paying for it or not. If it has become no longer acceptable then it is our choice to leave.

    Yes we can, and I 100% encourage people to, suggest changes we feel will make things better - however - I think that they should be constructive and put out solely as a suggestion rather then a demand which is what this "give us info or we quit" stuff is.

    I know, I'm dreaming right?
    Last edited by Anarrina; Feb 27th, 2011 at 22:22:19. Reason: removed obscenities
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  4. #104
    Means and his team are busy working on getting Personal Furnaces to stack right?

    This is so so much more important (to me) than the new engine.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Stillkeeping View Post
    Alright lets not kid each other..

    For how long are we going to be impressed with the new engine when it gets here? I mean yeah, we'll stare at the pretty water, we'll run through the grass for a bit, and then all the same ol' problems of AO will come back in full force.
    It's not about the grass looking prettier. It's about the hope and belief that with better looking graphics fewer players will consider the game too old to give it a real try. We're simply hoping for more ppl in game.

    Sure AO has other problems but I don't think they are on the same magnitutde as the engine. The latest nvidia problems are critical. And while there is a good chance they will be solved it is a sign of things to come. Dx7 performance simply wont' be a priority forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stillkeeping View Post
    Frankly, I think Means is an intelligent man and understands this: you guys are acting like the new engine is the second coming of Jesus, when in reality it'll just be another good new thing like alien dailies.
    Dailies were designed to let ppl level in a game where teams are scarce ish.
    It was a bandaid for the symptoms of a small population and it was a good thing imo but it didn't bring any new (and probably very few old) players into the game. The engine could solve the problem instead of bandaiding it.
    No wonder we who want the game to live forever are looking forward to it alot!

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    It's about the hope and belief that with better looking graphics fewer players will consider the game too old to give it a real try. We're simply hoping for more ppl in game.
    The new graphics would've meant more players if this was a free game. As a paid mmorpg, gamers will simply compare it to others in that category, just like they do now and the graphics alone will not be enough to make them choose differently. Why? Because we're talking faces, sky, grass, water, not even a full graphical update, very far from a game engine with updated mechanics. Gamers may have hundreds of dollars to spend on games, but they don't have more than a few hours in a day to spend in games. Stillkeeping is right, the new engine is nothing more than just "another good thing".
    I am even more pessimistic, thinking AoC is almost unplayable on my computer (definitely unpayable for this reason, have to settle for that old ugly Rift, sigh) and I suspect most AO players have crappy computers.
    Last edited by kesh; Feb 27th, 2011 at 21:29:37.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    The new graphics would've meant more players if this was a free game. As a paid mmorpg, gamers will simply compare it to others in that category, just like they do now and the graphics alone will not be enough to make them choose differently. Why? Because we're talking faces, sky, grass, water, not even a full graphical update, not a game engine with updated mechanics. Gamers may have hundreds of dollars to spend on games, but they don't have more than a few hours in a day to spend in games. Stillkeeping is right, the new engine is nothing more than just "another good thing".
    I am even more pessimistic, thinking AoC is almost unplayable on my computer (definitely unpayable for this reason, have to settle for that old ugly Rift, sigh) and I suspect most AO players have crappy computers.
    Heh, you must have some seriously crappy hardware. AoC will run at near max everything with the current engine on midrange laptop hardware of 2 generations ago. New engine will just make it run faster, just turn off the effects if you can't handle it and it'll still look better than it does now. And really, modern effects do make quite a difference. Find some screenshots of the new engine being used in AoC.. quite a difference.
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  8. #108
    I'm excited for the engine because I expect to see many of my old friends reactivating their accounts when it is released and it also means fc will be able to focus their resources on new content and other game improvements

    Regarding kesh's post, there is the froob program. When I joined ao I saw it as a free game where you choose whether or not to pay for the extra content and expansions. There are far worse looking free mmo's around, even 2d ones that have people playing.. which is exactly why I am looking forward to the engines release and the ability to focus on the more important things like game content.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    It's not about the grass looking prettier. It's about the hope and belief that with better looking graphics fewer players will consider the game too old to give it a real try. We're simply hoping for more ppl in game.

    Sure AO has other problems but I don't think they are on the same magnitutde as the engine. The latest nvidia problems are critical. And while there is a good chance they will be solved it is a sign of things to come. Dx7 performance simply wont' be a priority forever.



    Dailies were designed to let ppl level in a game where teams are scarce ish.
    It was a bandaid for the symptoms of a small population and it was a good thing imo but it didn't bring any new (and probably very few old) players into the game. The engine could solve the problem instead of bandaiding it.
    No wonder we who want the game to live forever are looking forward to it alot!
    Noobius, I see a like-minded fellow in you! You are going to doubt this, but there are those who DO NOT want more people playing this game.

    Did I interest you? Look for my thread "how to make pvp funner" In the balance discussion for further clarification. More specifically, page 2, Hvyshadows makes some interesting statements with regards to what kind of population he'd like AO to have.


    I agree that what I've seen from the new engine, it will definitly serve as an attention magnet, which is awesome. The not-so-awesome part is the glaring problems that persist to this day which imo originated too long ago and could easily be corrected.

  10. #110
    looking forward for MP doc, can't wait!
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  11. #111
    Wonder Troll Powers Activate! Form of: Fanboi! To the forums! Same people all the time. Absolutely predictable in their worn out responses to every statement that issues forth from the Cult of FC collective headquarters.

    They have special knowledge, insight, and relationships (i.e. they stalk FC staff on IRC)! They knew it all along and can't wait to let us know the real deal! You guys should make a shirt and get a "bat" signal of some kind.

    The game is enjoyable. If the engine does anything for the game, I hope it improves performance first and foremost. The screenies I have seen do not appeal to me anyway.

  12. #112
    I really only hope that the new engine will make game run smoother on my laptop. Just for the sake of comparison I downloaded WoW and that was running very nice and smooth while looking ten times prettier on my old laptop. Looking prettier doesn't matter to me but running smoother and faster does! DB2, Pande, Tara, alien mothership.... not playable or close to while no problem at all in terms of graphics in WoW.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Haxi View Post
    They have special knowledge, insight, and relationships (i.e. they stalk FC staff on IRC)! They knew it all along and can't wait to let us know the real deal!
    Some of us have signed NDAs and actually have known for a good while about new content that is going to come out but have/are not legally able to tell. It's stated in every FWM that has professional documents that the Profs are going over it or went over it before hand. So if the profs are seeing the profession changes before the rest of the playerbase it makes sens that they would actually know more about what's going on behind closed doors before everyone else.
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  14. #114
    huh. after trying to read each post, i made it to the second page before my eyes started to glaze over. most of you suck, go play wow.
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  15. #115

    We need to go deeper

    People complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about engine.
    People complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about engine.
    People complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about engine.
    People complaining about people complaining about people complaining about engine.
    People complaining about people complaining about engine.
    People complaining about engine.

  16. #116
    Inception leet!!
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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    The new graphics would've meant more players if this was a free game. As a paid mmorpg, gamers will simply compare it to others in that category, just like they do now and the graphics alone will not be enough to make them choose differently. Why? Because we're talking faces, sky, grass, water, not even a full graphical update, very far from a game engine with updated mechanics.
    I think noone will claim to be able to know exactly how many new players the new engine would attract. Or I should say how many fewer it would deter. But it's quite safe to assume that if it's done properly, it should run much smoother than it does today on pretty much any setup. And that just can't be a bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    Gamers may have hundreds of dollars to spend on games, but they don't have more than a few hours in a day to spend in games.
    Really? I personally passed 1100 days played a while ago, over the last 6 years. I know alot of ppl who play much more than I do too.

    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    Stillkeeping is right, the new engine is nothing more than just "another good thing".
    I am even more pessimistic, thinking AoC is almost unplayable on my computer (definitely unpayable for this reason, have to settle for that old ugly Rift, sigh) and I suspect most AO players have crappy computers.
    What proof could you possibly have of that? I have no idea myself and neither do you. But if I'd have to guess I'd guess that quite a few in the AO playerbase are tech geeks like myself. And therefore have monster systems. I know that's true for quite a few ppl I know as well.
    Last edited by Noobius76; Feb 28th, 2011 at 09:13:10.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh
    Stillkeeping is right, the new engine is nothing more than just "another good thing".
    I am even more pessimistic, thinking AoC is almost unplayable on my computer (definitely unpayable for this reason, have to settle for that old ugly Rift, sigh) and I suspect most AO players have crappy computers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius
    What proof could you possibly have?
    Noobius, this is the deal in anarchy.

    Credits are too hard to make.

    Unlike other mmo's where you can become a crafter profession and sell stuff that other people actually need/buy, Anarchy offers no such alternative at low levels.

    A person rolling a brand new character, unless an ma, needs millions of credits for a decent weapon in order to be able to kill stuff. Then he needs a few more mil for armor for a completed toon.

    Right now, there is simply no way to get this amount of credits for new players. Old timers dont see this problem as transferring 10 or 20 mil is no big deal for anyone, no matter how tight credits are on a main. That 10 mil is the difference between being able to play this game and not being able to.

    In other games, you get gear from quests, dungeons done in groups, etc. etc. Gear is accessible. Here, perenniums are (high-level) player-made, alien armor is player-made, symbiants are high-level player farmed, and implants, for the most part, have to be player-made. Someone who doesn't have a boatload of high level orgmates/friends/buddies with him from the minute he starts playing is at basically an unovercomable disadvantage.

    When you know your character needs X weapon and X armor set and X symbiants, and you know there is no way in hell you can get them yourself (or make do with something inferior for a bit), let me tell you, it severly dampens your enthusiasm about the game. Particularly with all the competition that is out there today.

    This is why a new engine will only, in reality, make the suffering look pretty for those new people trying out the game. In my analysis, someone will not masochistically stay and endure the painful exeprience that AO is for newbs just because of an up-to-date graphics engine.

  19. #119
    I don't have a monster system, but AO runs fine on this.

    Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT x2, SLI bridged
    Intel Duo core 3.0 Ghz whatever that means

    Several members of GN have stated that they would like to return to AO once the new engine goes live. Surely there are others as well.

    EDIT: I agree with Still that part of the rebalance should include a look at the new player experience. Make low level weapons and armour sold in the shop terminals affordable, either by reducing their value or increasing the credits earned from missions, and/or looting mobs.

    The Profession Implants terminals were a terrific idea. Maybe we could replace the existing weapon and armour terminals with Profession Weapons and Armour Terminals that sell individual pieces of the same QL of a given type to make a full set. Say, for example, have the Agent/Fixer Terminal in the Basic Store sell QL 25 pieces of Leather Armour, QL 50 Leather Armour, and also a QL 25 and 50 Gripo for the Agents and QL 25 and 50 Mausser Particle Streamer for the Fixers.

    The Advanced Store could sell Sid's Leather Armour at QL 75 and 100, and maybe replace the Gripo (which ends at QL 50) with a QL 75 and 100 Tsakachumi for the Agents, and a QL 75 and 100 Mausser for the Fixers.

    The Superiour Store would have these at QL 125. Maybe replace the Sid's Leather Armour with basic Steel Ribbed.

    Of course, there would still be much better options available to players, but they wouldn't feel totally lost and confused by the massive amount of worthless crap in the shops. Does anyone remember what a mess the implant and cluster terminals used to be at launch? That issue was resolved with the Profession Implants Terminals, and a reorganization of the cluster terminals. The same fix needs to be applied to weapons and armour.
    Last edited by Gwop; Feb 28th, 2011 at 11:42:00. Reason: ninja post

  20. #120
    @Stillkeeping: You dont need millions to start the game. Its a misconception of current vet twink mentality.

    When I started the game, I got creds from subway junk, mission junk, totw loot and survive till lvl 60, when someone gave me 1m to lvl 100 impls and a med suit (omg!) I did my own impls (be mp halped a lot) I farmed my own symbs. I did loads of creds farming scheol catas selling embryos (hellyeah). So someone gave reanimator cloak1!!! I bought my own cacodemon nano with my own 1million, I rolled my own belamorte...

    Hell yeah, I stayed for a month in lvl 36 due totw trains, but what?! that was fun! The problem is ppl dont wanna farm and dont wanna slowlvl.

    And, to finish: Do you know what I hate more in other mmos? All those silly quests to get armor and weapon that is crap but make you feel uber cause its the only thing you can really get alone.
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