Concerns over Parry

[Argotach]

Just to clear up some confusion that seems to be going on in this thread:

We forgot to mention that Parry/Riposte will work based off of the IP spent in their respective skills and will NOT be tied to a "weapons special" in the same sense that Burst/Fling Shot/ect. ect. are. The only requirement to use Parry or Riposte will be that you have a melee weapon (and yes, the MA fists weapons will count) equipped - Whether or not this weapon has "Parry" listed as a special attack will be a moot point, as this is an entirely new system and not tied to the older attempts at making Parry/Riposte work.

So long as you're using a melee weapon, you're good to go with the new attacks. =)

[Otansaanpas]

Just to clear up some confusion that seems to be going on in this thread:

dated october 2009
that is nice starting point, but im sure parry isnt at its final form yet.

[Xtremtech]

Hehe... they may get all the way to implementing it and have to give up on it at the last minute too... like the last time FC tried a Parry/Riposte implementation.

But for now - if we're to have a half-way reasonable discussion about it, it has to be on the basis of what they've published, doesn't it?

X

[Gatester]

Honestly I do not want enforcers to have it, even using a weapon for it simply because I do not like the thought of evasive or skillful enforcers. I am sure there are multitudes of things FC could introduce for enforcers instead that would fill in any necessity.

I also have a problem with the possibility of certain support professions having the ability to use parry and riposte. Imagine, that a profession is in need of a better defensive toolset, but also has the ability to use those specials. It then becomes an issue that prevents those professions from obtaining a better toolset because they have an option which could become defensively overpowered.

MA's, Keepers, Shades are a default to receive the special (even if two of those have plenty of defense/survival), but here is my thought on adventurers. Adventurers could have access to a parry/riposte like ability while wielding either melee OR ranged weapons, but they would be forced to be unmorphed to do so. It makes no sense for a wolf to parry and riposte afterall, and I feel it can be justified to be an option for both ranged and melee advy.

[Weltall]

MA's, Keepers, Shades are a default to receive the special (even if two of those have plenty of defense/survival), but here is my thought on adventurers. Adventurers could have access to a parry/riposte like ability while wielding either melee OR ranged weapons, but they would be forced to be unmorphed to do so. It makes no sense for a wolf to parry and riposte afterall, and I feel it can be justified to be an option for both ranged and melee advy.

Why should ranged adv have it? They already possess the huge advantage of being ranged. There should be at least some incentive to be melee.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

ya I have to agree. I just googled define: parry, and in most cases it involves using a SWORD, or ARM/HAND to DEFLECT the full force of an attack.

Seems to me that MA's might need a wrist or weapon item that would enable parry (since blocking/deflecting an attack with just armoured hand/fist just doesn't seem good.

Also, deflecting an incoming object seems possible with something like a rifle, that has a LONG barrel, but, doing it with a pistol would likely create such vibration/shock in the pistol that you wouldn't be able to hold on to it.

swords, axes, scimitars, poles, all good for me, nunchak? not really. Rapier ok. Even a Bow, but crossbow would likely not work as it would likely get damaged.

Seems like there could be some weapons that that should/shouldn't have parry skills, and/or if they do function less well during a parry.

To me, if you used your rifle to parry a blow, you might ruin the barrel. If you didn't, you'd likely have to have quite sufficient skill to ward the blow off harmlessly (yourself and weapon) but obviously the weapon wouldn't be usable for a couple seconds during the maneouver.

scimitar, on the other hand seems ideal, also a large sword such as exact excal, or even an kyr' 112/881 or whatever.

Hard to say, really which weapons should or shouldn't get it.

[Kintaii]

We're still looking at implementing the changes we discussed regarding Parry & Riposte, and still in the same basic way we mentioned before. We might end up locking the two specials to specific melee weapons (of which fists would most likely be included), but with the depth of the itemization changes we're working toward if we *do* go down that route we'll ensure that the appropriate weapons have the Parry & Riposte specials enabled. =)

[McKnuckleSamwich]

We're still looking at implementing the changes we discussed regarding Parry & Riposte, and still in the same basic way we mentioned before. We might end up locking the two specials to specific melee weapons (of which fists would most likely be included), but with the depth of the itemization changes we're working toward if we *do* go down that route we'll ensure that the appropriate weapons have the Parry & Riposte specials enabled. =)

fists definitly *should* be included, but, based on a standardized definition, it's hard to imagine being able to "ward a blow" using fists...

unless thats just what a "evaded" hit would be?

I guess, a really good martial artist might be able to shed some light on this.

For me, using my hands to "ward" a blow reminds me of this guy who tried to catch a falling kitchen knife and sliced his hand so bad he needed stitches.

Honestly, for a "parried" hit, I don't want 15 hours of rezz sickness... lol

[Waahash]

I'm an MA and I punch bullets to death.

Sounds cool.

[wyldebeast]

fists definitly *should* be included, but, based on a standardized definition, it's hard to imagine being able to "ward a blow" using fists...

unless thats just what a "evaded" hit would be?

I guess, a really good martial artist might be able to shed some light on this.

For me, using my hands to "ward" a blow reminds me of this guy who tried to catch a falling kitchen knife and sliced his hand so bad he needed stitches.

Honestly, for a "parried" hit, I don't want 15 hours of rezz sickness... lol

You don't have to parry the pointy end of a melee weapon. As a MA you could step close and parry at the hilt or the hand holding the weapon. You could also block the side of an edged weapon. Add to this, that MAs have AC buffs, that "Turns the body of the caster rock-hard", so this could account for their ability to parry off attacks "normal" martial arts practioners cannot, such as ranged and powered sci-fi weapon attacks.

[Gatester]

Why should ranged adv have it? They already possess the huge advantage of being ranged. There should be at least some incentive to be melee.

I am not saying ranged advy should have parry and riposte, I am saying we should wait and see before denying them access to a similar type of special. It is bad to say, in the case of adventurers, that parry/riposte should equal the benefit of a ranged attacking option.

[Gridpain]

You re saying I can dodge bullets ?

no... but you can parry them

[Gunfytr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeHrq_Fs1vk

Who says u cant parry with a pistol?

[Waahash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeHrq_Fs1vk

Who says u cant parry with a pistol?

This should require IP'ing the new Gun-Kata skill.

[Weltall]

I am not saying ranged advy should have parry and riposte, I am saying we should wait and see before denying them access to a similar type of special. It is bad to say, in the case of adventurers, that parry/riposte should equal the benefit of a ranged attacking option.

Well that could be said about any prof...

[Gatester]

Well that could be said about any prof...

Well...yeah I like to keep an open mind when the changes are so large.