8,000 evades... (NR thread)

[Mordo]

Means said they found interesting things in old systems while working on rebalance and I bet NR is one of them.

[drakio]

I think that the UBT landing phenomenon is one of those deep AO coding mysteries, much like the capped initiatives that was recently discovered..

Wut? lol

still talking about this?

There's nothing broke in nr, having 8k nr dosen't made you immune to nanos, versus a caster with 2k nanoskills u'll have a probability of 25% that it will lands.
And ofc a spammable nano will lands better than a non spammable one, and UBT spammability ftw.

Just this is ... tested... 2billions of forum threads on this.... and you still discussing.... gz.

Also remember that AAD applies differently on NR in respect of other evades (i will start another fresh thread on this...).

Bye

[drakio]

Since we still can discuss about rebalanse and things that should be reworked, I will take a little time to point major broken mechanism called NanoResist. This game is based on nanoprograms and it seems that nanoprogram classes have more power/adventages then any. Counterpart to that is that player can skill or even train his character into nanoresist.

Evades are working perfectly in favor of evading classes. Every evades from lvl 130 (by one button) is twice powerfull and we know that hiting such target (speaking of twinks vs twinks) is rather impossible. Tested it thousands of times and differance like 300-400 in AMS vs DefCheck makes hiting target like 1/10-12 (thats at tl 4 and 5 ofc). So, makeing character with 8000 evades would render it impossible to hit, or chances to score a hit would be like 1/97 (since we have setup 3% hit build in game or something like this).

So, as I speak of 8,000 evades I clearly don't see perkline in any proffesion toolset, which would add such ammount of defensive skill in evades/duck/dodge. Thats a fact. But we have NotumRepulsor line... And now I figured out, that devs from FC knows theer is something wrong with NR mechanism. Otherwise, they wouldnt put such powerfull tool... But its not powerfull at all. Something is wrong.

At tl2 (back in 49 BS range) I made NR char with over 920 NR selfed (Enf with rage, NM). I could counter most of roots/drains. But from tl3 it seems to not work at all (NR, that is). Same enf with NR perked, buffed NR, with skill at 1900 is drainable easly (1-2 tries), rootable, ect. Tested over 200 Nanoatacks and it looks lik 60% stuff lands on 2nd try, 15-20% on first. Went further and with some enf at lvl 150 we trained NR5, which made our skill at over 7k NR. And effect was, we were still drained easly (I was drained on 3rd try) and UBTed (I manage to counter few roots).

NR perked should protect any player from any Nano attacks/hostile action, and trade-off is less ar/speed/dmg ect. I belive that was the point. But its not that way at this moment.

So, either there must be something very wrong in NR skill check, or its supposed to be, that every Nano Class (Trader, Doc, NT, Crat) has adventage by design.

At this moment NR is serious flaw in game design and imho, it should be adresed first, before any changes made to proffesions itself.

The fact that you got drained with your enf having 1900 NR in 1-2 tries (average 1.5 times) by a pobably pre drained 150ish trader, states that just NR works correctly.

A 150 trader,not predrained, has an average 1090 TS/PM, in this situation their Divest Skills (Nanite Enhanced) that saves at 90%, will lands 1090/(1900*0.90) = 0,637 = ~ 64% of the times, a little more than 1 over 2 tries.

If predrained 1510/(1900*0.90) =0,88 = 88%!

Honestly NR seems to be working perfectly.

Regarding your supposed supremacy of Trader, Doc, NT, Crat (u forgot MP! they are the true OPed profession, expecially tl5 ones!!), over the poor enfos, this should be true just if enfos weren't unrootable, without a +800 nr/800 runspeed, and AAO wasen't counted 2 times on the ai perks. In other words if enfos weren't enfos.

Bye

[Ninewood]

There's nothing broke in nr, having 8k nr dosen't made you immune to nanos, versus a caster with 2k nanoskills u'll have a probability of 25% that it will lands.
And ofc a spammable nano will lands better than a non spammable one, and UBT spammability ftw.

which game are you talking about?

i'm just curious since you're in the anarchy online forums here, and usually the way it's done is play first, post later. but you know. it's a free country and whatnot. also you seem to have skipped on math classes a lot, but who could blame ya

[Tsuniko]

drakio you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

[drakio]

which game are you talking about?

i'm just curious since you're in the anarchy online forums here, and usually the way it's done is play first, post later. but you know. it's a free country and whatnot. also you seem to have skipped on math classes a lot, but who could blame ya

Got an 200 nt with 1760 nr, docs land ubt on me ~70-80% of the times, considering the average nanoskills they have nothing seems broke.

So before trolling like you are doing:

1) learn to use forums, thousand of threads discussing about UBT and nano spammability.

2) learn math

3) learn to play in full def.

bye noobs.

[Notcrattey]

I remember when I was NR8, I think it took at least 20+ tries before IU landed once.

[Obtena]

Lol

funny that still u didn't give any number, ....

Throwing numbers around doesn't make you look like an authority on the subject or even that you have a clue. Take for example you in your first post. Landing rates are not determined by dividing Nanoskill AR of the caster by the NR skill of the target. That's a rather stupid approach to implementing a check and furthermore, it's incorrect. A few people have actually quantified it quite accurately. Sorry I don't have the link, but I think that won't matter to you anyways, so I won't bother to search for it. Finally, you just pulled that 25% landing rate out of thin air. No wonder you are not being taken seriously.

And yes, if you were looking at the point of the thread, if you have 8K NR and it's 4 times larger than any nanoskill AR someone can get, maybe it should work like evades. I don't see people with 2K AR hitting people with very high evades and the OP of the thread is suggesting that NR should work in a similar way.

[Le-Quack]

I dont know if some nanos like ubt for example has a bugg.. becose ubt seems to land rather easy on my 220 alt with nr 1. 2700 ish nr.. ubt always lands on first try more or less, and if lucky i can rest 2-3 before it lands.. but after that its over. also have to note that with the 2700 ish nr, the player also has 1300 ish aad.

So may some nanos like ubt be buggeD?
this is UBT:

Defense skills

Nano resist

100 %

may it scale wrong and the description lies? maybe its not 100% nr Resist, like can it be more like 50%? becose that could make more sense since that freaking nano lands all the time!

[mcnurja]

stop pvp:ing with endgame doctors if you cant handle them. problem solved

[Le-Quack]

stop pvp:ing with endgame doctors if you cant handle them. problem solved

sorry but that made no sense. i know it did for you, but nope.. sorry i didnt get that reply

[Mamman]

NR is good enough to make many casters complain about it being too strong, and it's bad enough to make many non-casters complain about how it's useless.

At the end of the day, it's a heavy IP-investment that a huge majority of PVPers still find worth it to take and that speaks volumes about NR being a pretty good skill.

If it's broken or not is a pointless discussion as no one knows the exact way it's intended to work. There surely is a few weird features with it though, like the slew of nanos that work perfectly on RK but are useless on same level stuff in SL. I find it likely that some of those quirks carry over to pvp as well.

I'd also like to state that if a nano lands half the time on average the guy on the recieving end will say it almost always land and the caster will say it lands very rarely, even more so if the nano is particularly crippling when it lands. Bring some actual numbers and statistics if you want to have a discussion about this.

[Kuegen]

NR is good enough to make many casters complain about it being too strong, and it's bad enough to make many non-casters complain about how it's useless.

At the end of the day, it's a heavy IP-investment that a huge majority of PVPers still find worth it to take and that speaks volumes about NR being a pretty good skill.

If it's broken or not is a pointless discussion as no one knows the exact way it's intended to work. There surely is a few weird features with it though, like the slew of nanos that work perfectly on RK but are useless on same level stuff in SL. I find it likely that some of those quirks carry over to pvp as well.

I'd also like to state that if a nano lands half the time on average the guy on the recieving end will say it almost always land and the caster will say it lands very rarely, even more so if the nano is particularly crippling when it lands. Bring some actual numbers and statistics if you want to have a discussion about this.

y'all got pwnt.

wtb evade version of NR so i can have 20k NR and evades, would be trollzy. BS capper anyone?

[Raelil]

Good point. IMO, the NR check should be replaced by nano blockers, just like FC's proposal for how parry will work. Probably reasonable for the short duration hostile nanos being implemented in PVP.

ding ding ding! Definately a great idea that should be implemented. Parry just for Nano users. Perhaps a skill line called: Mind over Matter, basicly something everyone can invest points in just like weapon skills, nano skills, parry etc etc. Tho most usable for NT's MP's and other specific nano users, which adds a procentage chance to negate a nano attack, and perhaps for speficifed classes, a deflection of nano chance.

Obviously same could be made for melee toons etc.

kids should stop whining at this very second and think that NT's never will get nerfed and theyre OP as hell so better stop asking for any changes or they actually nerf you and then the real crying starts

stop pvp:ing with endgame doctors if you cant handle them. problem solved

Excuse me, but havnt you joined the wrong forum ? The WoW forum's is at the end of the hall to the left, it seem's you ended up in a place where your comments bare no meaning, except to make yourself look silly.

[Shareida]

Wtb 55% check nano that lowers 3k def by casting 3 times :/

You are in luck. You only have to push ONE button, and your opponent magically has 1500 lesser defense. For a whole 15 seconds. All you have to do is to roll a trox.

[Juzzif]

I see a lot of flawed analogies between AR/DEF ratin and Nano skills/Nano resist...

In the AR versus Def scenario, if you have 1 less AR than he has Def you do not land PERIOD.

With Nano skills versus Nano resist you don't have the same mechanics at play at all.. This is percentage based, whatever you have in Nano skills VS the Nano resist% on the nano casted+Nano resist taken into consideration...

Don't put them in the same category, it never has been the same. It's a whole other game.. There is no randomness at play with AR vs Evades and perks. Auto hits would be a different matter though, but this also based on a very different RNG than NS - NR..

[Sferyl]

In the AR versus Def scenario, if you have 1 less AR than he has Def you do not land PERIOD.

Wrong. If both are about the same, the chance to hit is roughly 50%. If you don't believe that, go test it. Note that the agg/def-setting influences this, too.

With Nano skills versus Nano resist you don't have the same mechanics at play at all.

In my own twisted world of imagination how AO works I actually do think it's working similar, if not even the same. The problem with NR is, that the result is perceived differently: Once you are hit, it's all bad.

If the chance of getting hit via weapons is lets say 25%, many players will say like "I evade most hits!", yet a chance of 25% of getting hit by a nano is like "omg the NR stuff is not working!"

[Obtena]

They don't work the same and unless your willing to test and prove it (people have done that already), then your just making assumptions. It's not just a matter of people having a perception issue.

[Escritores]

NR is definitely broken at tl3, can't really say for other tls...

I have around 2800 NR at tl 3... And I get hit alot by incoming nukes, blinds etc, also Zap Nano and Nano Shakes needs a serious overhaul too at this TL to be actually usefull, maybe make them based on NR skill... You sacrifice all nano casting abilities to perk NR you should be rewarded somehow for doing so instead of having a broken "Resist"...

[Shareida]

Happened that I cannot perk someone with a 5% def check perk while having 3k AR.

/thread