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Thread: Get rid of AR template over 1k for profs

  1. #21
    Removing templates is not an option. Even simple switching from 1/6 to 1/3 template at 3k AR setting would be close to doubling the weapon damage.

    Unfortunately in case of Traders, improvement to their template would overpower them at low ranges to the level of Hulk in a kindergarten, so you're out of luck.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by -Barg- View Post
    Newsflash: Traders would not get 100% AR past 1k when no other profession has it, so again, you'd still be undesirable. And you won't compare to professions like shades, engineers, crats, etc., who all have damage dealing toolsets in addition to their weapon damage.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Removing templates is not an option. Even simple switching from 1/6 to 1/3 template at 3k AR setting would be close to doubling the weapon damage.
    and adjusting damage multiplier gain from AR and the way armor works wouldnt compensate this at all?
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
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  4. #24
    At that point you might as well just throw out the broken system we have and implement a better one.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  5. #25
    Pretty much. Any system that sorts professions by arbitrarily selected tiers, and then swings hidden nerfbat at everyone below top tiers, and does that each time there is an expansion or content update, just needs a complete rework.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Unfortunately in case of Traders, improvement to their template would overpower them at low ranges to the level of Hulk in a kindergarten, so you're out of luck.
    The template is only above 1k AR. So it wouldn't overpower them at low ranges, more like medium ranges. Even then, if there were level-locks on nanite drains, it wouldn't be that much of an issue.

  7. #27
    Yeah i meant low as in, not 220. It would mostly impact TL5 and TL4.

    But anyway, at those ranges the whole mechanic does its job and is still kind of neccessary.

    Its just at tl7 where it becomes absurd.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    if there were level-locks on nanite drains,
    It would be a terrible solution. Level-locks are all but universally panned in this game.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorathon View Post
    It would be a terrible solution. Level-locks are all but universally panned in this game.
    Like it or not, level locking is an easy and effective way to limit the power of static buffs/debuffs.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorathon View Post
    It would be a terrible solution. Level-locks are all but universally panned in this game.
    I have a 150 trader, and even I see that being able to drain an opponent at that level for about 50% of their AR isn't exactly balanced.

  11. #31
    thread below for locking drains.

    I knew the responce i would get when i posted those links to the dd output with and without template. Xan of greed has no specials, it crits high however. With 3.4k AR i get a similar crit to the 1.3k AR one on my trader.
    I can get 8k crits with an RK weapon already so 10k for a 300 weapon isn't that far fetched. Remember it does not have any specials except fling and traders dont have any real dd perks or denfece.

    As i said before work out a 30% difference from lowest DD prof to highest DD prof. Make it by skill/working on your char if you can get 100 more AR then everyone else to make a difference. Remove/rework templates not to negate effort put in. Rework weapons so profs prefer to use but not bottlenecked into using a specific weapon.
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  12. #32
    AR over 1K was nerfed just before SL was released - probably because FC realized everyone's AR was going to go way over 1K and they weren't ready to rebalance all the weapons and armor and stuff... so they just nerfed it. Traders got it the worst, 1/6th effective, most were 1/3rd. When the rebalance is done, the AR nerf should be dropped. It's about time.
    Last edited by If6Was9; May 5th, 2012 at 08:15:26.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorathon View Post
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by If6Was9 View Post
    AR over 1K was nerfed just before SL was released - probably because FC realized everyone's AR was going to go way over 1K and they weren't ready rebalance all the weapons and armor and stuff... so they just nerfed it. Traders got it the worst, 1/6th effective, most were 1/3rd. When the rebalance is done, the AR nerf should be dropped. It's about time.
    Exactly why i posted here, rebalance should include a rethink of this. Might not be totally removed but the 1/6 1/4 1/3 as AR gets higher really causes incosistancies between profs. Damage output from some profs is 3 - 4 times others.
    BarginDealer The Trader
    Moretea The Enforcer
    Bahba The Adventurer
    Lesstea The Shade

    General Knights of Ka

  14. #34
    Would just be easier to calculate damage, which is a plus.
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  15. #35
    As much as i hate to say it, level locking one nano and simply adjusting the templates are the way to go.

    The odds of them reworking whole damage calculation are incredibly slim, unless you are fine with waiting until 2034.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by -Barg- View Post
    thread below for locking drains.
    And that's the problem with this entire Balance sub-forum. These things don't exist in a vacuum, where you look at only 1 aspect of a profession's toolset.

  17. #37
    I'm not arguing with any of the basic points I guess... but wouldn't removing the templates make things worse for most professions that aren't weapon specialists? If you got rid of them completely, then weapon specialists damage would go off the charts, but non-specialists weapon damage wouldn't increase by as much.

    I'm pretty sure that the 1K+ templates were introduced, because Shadowlands was in the works and the new skills budgets would make the difference between specialists and non-specialists too great. If they'd kept the same linear progression, then the specialists damage would have wildly exceeded the non-specialists.

    So they put in a curve... but in doing so recognised that if the curves were the same for the different professions... then specialist professions would lose too much - in that they'd lose the advantage of being a weapon specialist.

    So they made the curves better for the specialists and less good for the non-specialists.

    Just off the top of my head stuff though... it may be that I'm missing the point. I'm pretty sure that this was how the discussions went at the time though....

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  18. #38
    Well, no. As a class with top tier divider you typically already have *both* high AR advantage as well as divider advantage.

    I cba running math with specific examples but there's now way removing the templates can make things worse then they already are. But then its been already mentioned how removing caps is not much of an option.

    And i dont know, it was my understanding that the reason for introducing this mechanic was completely opposite.

    I.e. because AO's unique , open character development system, non-weapon specialist would have unintended advantage by twinking on atypical weapons and operating them at somewhat similar efficiency as the specialist, while still having their other toolset like healing or pets.

    Jame Blaster would be great example of that. At level when you can equip it, the damage is absolutely off the charts, you can put it on Doctor and enjoy near-soldiery damage until post1k divider and max mbs kick in.

    Of course char development at endgame is practically closed nowadays. As a non-weapon specialist you basically have to use Xan weapon of your profession. Atypical modern weapons are sometimes still possible to equip. But they require the combination of profession specific sl perks, ai perks, research, and specialist ip template to be operated effectively. So much that they might just as well be level locked.
    Last edited by IHaveHugeNick; May 27th, 2012 at 18:36:09.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    thx for these exemples...

    obvisouly, 9k crits / 3.6k reg on 10k AC is completly OP.

    So you just proved that FC should NOT get rid of templates of ver 1 k.
    But MA's should be allowed? Oh wait they can even with the post 1k AR template.


    How about adding a ton of add damage to the trader tool set instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    it's written in the bible.
    Matthew 23:13 "and the trader hath casteth bulk trader at the young age of 14. and it was good. and so he hath an extra 260 comp lit and he hath equippeth better ncu's. and it was good too.
    A Producer's point of view

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Shareida View Post
    But MA's should be allowed? Oh wait they can even with the post 1k AR template.


    How about adding a ton of add damage to the trader tool set instead.
    If the post 1k AR template for martial arts fist produces enough excess damage to make it a point of conjecture, why then is a non-MA setup the highest damage producing setup for everyone profession asside from MA itself? The AR template itself is not a good way to balance damage, perhaps a static diminishing returns system for all classes would be fine. Attack rating does affect your critical rate as well so it is not that AR builds are ever bad for damage dealing on any profession.

    I believe using add damage as you suggested would be a better method, or the critical rate.

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