Can any profession...

[Djiax]

Let's say agents as an example. Aimed Shot makes agents OP in some situations. Is AS an agent tool or a general tool? It is a general tool. AS is OP.

Mongo Rage makes an enforcer OP in some situations. Is MR an enforcer tool or a general tool? It is a general tool. MR is OP.

After i read this post, I perked MR on my trox NT for the lulz, and equipped a Troa'Ler; disappointed I was, seems like AS & MR needs a serious boost.

Rage makes enforcers OP in some situations. Is rage an enforcer tool or a general tool? It is an enforcer tool. Enforcers are OP.

Single tool doesn t make a profession OP. A toolset as a whole, does.




In the end MR has high enough synergies with enfo's toolset to consider it an enfo tool. Also because most people roll trox, it just happens MR IS part of the toolset 95% of the time.

So all in all, that was some pointless differenciation in my opinion.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

as is the extra little boost to AS in advies toolsets, plus naturally occuring pistol AR.... and then add the troa'ler, and you got yourself not an OP pistol, not an OP mechanic, and not an OP prof, but, put em all together, and ranged advies, are CURRENTLY OP.

[Dysfunction]

But really lets highlight the worst part which is that 1hb/he perk alphas are exploiting.


Yet no one is being banned?

I've seen permanent bans for far far less.

Fc made it so, and it's too much work to adjust making 1 perk line void out the other, so we have to deal with it until rebalance, which is fine and dandy for my 200 twink , but I do see the strife in perking both lines and how broken it is

[MassDebater]

Afaik one perk line locks out the other. Unless you queue them all at once.

Meaning every enforcer queuing perks to get round the intended restriction is an exploiter no better than any else.

[Gatester]

After i read this post, I perked MR on my trox NT for the lulz, and equipped a Troa'Ler; disappointed I was, seems like AS & MR needs a serious boost.

Single tool doesn t make a profession OP. A toolset as a whole, does.

In the end MR has high enough synergies with enfo's toolset to consider it an enfo tool. Also because most people roll trox, it just happens MR IS part of the toolset 95% of the time.

So all in all, that was some pointless differenciation in my opinion.

It was just an example of a way of thinking that might help someone accept their professions is OP. However, rage makes enforcers OP in any situation in which they run away, and this works against all but 1 profession, I do believe rage makes enforcers more OP than anything else. MR at least has a large cooldown, unlike professions with two 11 or 8 second high damage specials or triple reflect piercing nukes that are boosted by team damage add and raid damage add buffs if I am not mistaken.

As for the MR synergy, I think we narrowed it down to about 3 or 4 professions which would not alpha evaders into a oblivion with it. Does not matter how much more dangerous one profession's perks are if most professions produce the same result, DEATH.


NT is offensively OP enough without AS and MR too An atrox pistol crat might show much better results.

[Wyoming]

I don't mind the idea behind the split-AR thing. I mean, the first guy to do it was brave and stuff. But... the COPIES... URGH.

[Sromp]

I remember DJ's Zastaba and Resonance Blast versus my Caterwaul and heals.
Ahhhhh those were the days.


On topic:
Yes, MR itself is broken too. However, most profs have clear weaknesses and counters.

[Obtena]

^^ If the previous direction the devs were taking with balancing is any indication, enfos will have more than their share of weakness and counters. Based on the fact that's all we have to assess the future game state, anyone of intelligence would wonder why threads like this still exist if that's true.

[sultryvoltron]

^^ If the previous direction the devs were taking with balancing is any indication, enfos will have more than their share of weakness and counters. Based on the fact that's all we have to assess the future game state, anyone of intelligence would wonder why threads like this still exist if that's true.

Game Director and Design Lead from that era of balance no longer work at FC.

If there is any real indication on what the future of AO balance is, it's that none of those previous things really matter.

[Obtena]

There are lots of metagame concepts that are going to move forward from that era. The impact to professions will be similar, even if the exact details are not.

[sultryvoltron]

There are lots of metagame concepts that are going to move forward from that era. The impact to professions will be similar, even if the exact details are not.

Opinion based on no actual evidence.

[Sromp]

The previous direction got us to this thread.
The current direction keeps us going in this thread.

Stay on topic.


On topic: Dys gtfo and reroll!

[Shaguar]

3k AR for 4 ai perks is retarded. Enfs 5s recharge on perks is stupid, 40 % checks are moronic when the class is reaching 3.7k ar anyway. 80 % check on pistol perks another stupidity.

I just wish ppls would run out of NANO !!!!!!!

[Byste]

As a fixer, I have survived enforcer alphas - it involves spamming Greater Preservation Matrix with large nanopool and low nanocost, and having a free movement ready for stuns. Having a pocket NT for pnh+ior is amaaazing. Perhaps this strategy only works with having a high HP fixer though...

Alternatively you can try and wipe the mongo rage with Program Override - but you basically only have one shot at this and it's not compatible with spamming GPM since the cooldown is so long, in which case be ready to RUN. Also enforcer nanoresist is generally too high.

After surviving the alpha, you can stop the enf from running with stun perk and spamming roots. It's easiest to kill enf with rhat'ata swapped in instead of craphander, since raw damage kills an enf better than aimed shot, and every hit you can land helps since roots get countered at an unfortunate rate.

[Dumonde]

I think there are several individual aspects which combine into one major problem.

1) The perk alpha available by the 1he/1hb sploit is insanely powerful, and when combined with specials/regulars becomes unreal. The fast recharge on it adds to the power.
Result: Anything perkable that relies on passive defense (hp/reflects/etc) is in trouble. That's fine; shades have a lot of damage too.

2) The variety of stuns and init debuffs available, combined with 7s fear not breaking, make it difficult to use active defense.
Result: Anything perkable that relies on active defense (heals/perks/etc) is in trouble. That's fine; crats debuff better.

3) AAO from challenger and procs not only help landing regular perks, but also give AI perks very high AR.
Result: Only pure evade classes aren't perkable. That's fine; NTs can hit everyone after some CB.

4) Innate root/snare/stun resist combined with rage NR and rage itself make CCing an enfo difficult if not impossible. The runspeed on Rage almost negates Tranquilizer, the highest perk-based snare.
Result: The enfo can leave if his alpha fails, wait for its (fast) recharge, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's fine; fixers are harder to stop.

5) High HP, Bio Shielding, and passive healing make it almost impossible to alpha an enfo.
Result: Can't alpha the enfo. That's fine; can't alpha solja/kippur/engi generally.

HOWEVER
Final product:
Fast cycle huge alpha with stuns/debuffs/fear on a high-AR class who can't be alphaed or stopped.
MR just extends this to pure evade classes imo, and makes it obvious how broken it is.

Well done Srompüh. <3

I did about 50 duels on my Doc the last days vs. some Enforcer. It is possible to survive this devastating alpha, thats a fact. But a doc needs to have a perfect timing and open eyes, you can relatively forget to put an effort into killing the enforcer. Over time, if my doc survives any attempt of alpha, the enfo will die since he cant heal the burst/as and dmg perks. So, it is possible.

But...

These 50 duels ended... not good for me. I would never call me a decent pvp player but I am more then average. More then 75% of all players. And I analysed everything the enforcer where doing. From my experiences, the highest amount of losses where caused by SA and Dimach - the alpha itself is doable. But in the end, one of these specials (or both) came out to be the lethal blow(s). Thank god that fear are not accessable in duels, otherwise my ration would be 0/50. But thats the way the real open pvp looks alike when we encounter an enforcer in a free field. xSeriously, Firing 17 dmg perks including stuns/snares/ini debuffs/low def-checks but high dmg and fast recharge is purely retarded. But Funcom already stated to me that this is not an Exploit. Thats why I can state it here. No exploit, so every1 can talk about it without restrictions.

Just like a few ppl here said correctly - it is not 1 of these called OP-points that makes enforcer that extreme. Not MR, not fear, not high def, not the exploitish 1he/1hb perk queuing, not the stuns; it is the overall combination of everything previously mentioned. Just taking away MR would nerf not only enforcer and that wouldnt solve the problem itself, it would nerf all other profs. MR is a huge gain in possibilities for (for example) my doc to gank other profs - since a docs AR is pure crap, even in fullset css and pure AR items. "But you could spam MALP"... Orly... I wont limit my profession to using only 2-3 buttons, thats why my NT is not interesting currently. And tbh, a well timed MR is challenging a bit, even if it not alphas your target - it forces your oponent to got into defense, doesnt matter which profession it is. As for me, a Doc, MR is a gain in players experience and no, I am using MR much more less then anyone could call it OP.

B

PS: Killing an Enf as an NT ? Rooting and spamming Nemesis? Ha, I almost lol´d.

[Contra]

T
PS: Killing an Enf as an NT ? Rooting and spamming Nemesis? Ha, I almost lol´d.

a good NT can toe to toe any enfo and win.

[Obtena]

Nt toe to toe with an enfo. Sure, In a duel. In real PVP, is a different question.

[Contra]

True that. In a duel, an NT standing toe to toe with an enfo should win, granted he's got all defensive tools available, among NBS. In open pvp it takes FOREVER to kill an enfo as NT. When I face enfs on my NT on the BS or Borealis I just pop NS2, heal up, root him in place and run, or just hold him there forever with Nemesis+SL root

[MassDebater]

Whats with RK2 and always talking about duels?

[Dumonde]

Nt toe to toe with an enfo. Sure, In a duel. In real PVP, is a different question.

That.

But even in a duel - CB isnt a 100% hit. 1-2 counters and even the worlds best NT is alphad in no time.

True that. In a duel, an NT standing toe to toe with an enfo should win, granted he's got all defensive tools available, among NBS. In open pvp it takes FOREVER to kill an enfo as NT. When I face enfs on my NT on the BS or Borealis I just pop NS2, heal up, root him in place and run, or just hold him there forever with Nemesis+SL root

Yah, thats the point. We are able to atleast keep him standing rooted somewhere. Impressive toolset vs. an unmentionable profession. But even in duels, NBS must be ready ? Seriously, a tool which got a cooldown of 30 minutes (and leaves NTs defence stripped for that time, when you are in offensive focus) while the complete (!) toolset of an enforcer needs max. 5 minutes, is pure crap. Unbalanced crap.