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Thread: Team Composition - (off topic posts from Monthly Dev Update)

  1. #21
    yes perhaps im influenced by the fact when i started in 07 most people knew their toolset cause the options for easy levels werent as common as they are now, doing hecks meant contributing to the team or being booted for somone else off lft, now filling a teams an accomplishment which is why im not so picky on who fills it perhaps

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Otansaanpas View Post
    so you choose your team mates aswell and pick the ones available that benefits you and your team most? welcome to horrible people-club!
    Horrible or not there are some PLAYERS I would not take in a team.

    Examples for Ado+ ...
    If you are a sol and don't have SL team reflect, you can't be in my team.

    If you are a crat and you can't calm yellow mobs, you can't be in my team.

    If you are an enfo and you don't know what gird for punishment is, you can't be in my team.

    If you are a doc and think it's more important to DoT boss than UBT adds, you can't be in my team.

    If you are trad without any umbral wrangles, you can not be in my team.

    If you are a keep and you don't have any auras running, you can't be in my team.

    If you are advy and you don't have any morphs others, you can't be in my team.

    If you are an agent and can't fp doc or crat, you can't be in my team.

    If you are 200+ and have not done AT LEAST 1 of the xan quests (sheol/ado/pen depending on prof which is more important) you can not be in my team.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    If you are 200+ and have not done AT LEAST 1 of the xan quests (sheol/ado/pen depending on prof which is more important) you can not be in my team.
    Rofl, how you managed to team anybody before the XP/SK reward nerf is beyond me since nobody did those pre 215.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  4. #24
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Byste's Avatar
    From where this conversation has been going, I figured it might be helpful to provide a quick synopsis of how to get around the Fantastic Four mindset by substituting the roles that people have decided to favor them for.

    Fantastic Four substitutions.

    Enf -- can be subbed by many professions honestly, they only shine when a boss has very high AR and damage or if there's a lot of adds. Fixer/shade/MA evade tank, doctor/advy CH-tanking (also evade tanking for the advy), soldier AMS/TMS tanking (the best substitution since they also have taunt nanos for adds). An enforcer/soldier is extremely handy though for bosses that just have really high AR and damage and/or many adds which evaders struggle with, such as Anansi Left/Right hands, Pande, Xark/Razor, Drones in the DB quest. The need for an enf or soldier to tank these things is diminished by having the best heals, i.e. doctor.

    Doc -- harder to substitute, but depending on the amount of healing you need and if it's a single heal or team heal. Fixer (long and team-short hot), Shade (caress), MP, Trader, MA, and Advy all can sub for a doctor. Fixer makes the worst substitution and Advy makes the best. Fixer however can be a good substitution if they're also the tank since the hot-procs kick in for extra healing and they can spam long-hot for more heals. Docs also provide Init debuffs, which can only be properly substituted by a Crat or MP, if I recall correctly. Some other professions have selective init debuffs but they're just not nearly so useful.

    Soldier -- Soldiers serve three purposes in that they can tank, provide team reflects, and are raise team dd. DD can be boosted by many professions to a lesser degree, so it's not worth enumerating the substitutions there. Tanking is not done by a soldier in a fantastic-four scenario. Therefore the main reason a soldier is part of a fantastic four team is for the reflects, which frankly is perfectly substituted by an engineer... And engis also bring DVP and snares to the table for crowd control. The top engi reflect is available starting level 185 I think and is only 4% lower reflect than that provided by a 220 soldier with pre-nullity sphere. Massively underrated, engineers are... Except in pvp of course Unfortunately there are no other really viable substitutions to providing reflects, but there is always that 13% reflect graft that can even be used in the Shadowlands, provided you don't zone.

    Bureaucrat -- Crats are the hardest to substitute since they bring so many things to a team. Firstly they bring XP buffing, which now is perfectly substituted by an Advy. They give auras that massively raise a team's offense and defense... I honestly don't think any profession can substitute this, but keepers can offer this from one of their auras, soldiers can buff your AAO by a measly 44, you can make a quick trip to Alappaa and get Eye of the Predator buff (75 AAO/AAD), not to mention DB1/2 and 12man will give AAO/AAD buffage. Crats also provide many forms of crowd control including calms, mezz, charm, and snare/root. Calms can be done by traders, NTs, MPs, and Advys. Mezz (LMN/JLMN) can't be done by any other profession. Charms can't really be done by anyone else -- technically traders could, but it's the dumbest and most useless nanoline traders have and more often than not is a very bad idea to cast. With Carlita/Carlo most crats don't use charms anymore, so I suppose it's a minor point, but I still find charming be to very useful in places like Albtraum or Pande. Snares/roots can be done by many professions, such as Fixer, Engi, Trader, NT, Agent, and many more I'm forgetting about probably. Finally, Crats also have initiative and damage debuffs. Only doctors and MPs can really substitute this. MPs suck at it, focusing more on the damage debuffing, but they still can do it, and unfortunately docs are another member of the Fantastic Four, making it really hard to run a team without Doc or Crat. Traders can also do damage debuffing, but again this isn't really what a crat focuses on.

    I think this synopsis makes it pretty clear that there are many ways to build a functional team. I think it's also clear that some professions are really left out on ways to contribute in ways that are already covered by the Fantastic Four -- chiefly, MP and shade. Fortunately a shade also brings good DD to a team, and MPs have their NSD and Mochams, but both of these are easily overlooked since NSD is hardly necessary, Mochams can be given as an OSB for 8 hours, and many profs can do DD and make these two professions the least useful to a team.

    I think this synopsis also makes it pretty clear that crats are STUPIDLY overly useful to a team. I mean, it's nice that FC finally gave another profession XP buffing equivalent to a crat (though even advys aren't really equivalent to crats since they don't have the directorship/insurance perklines), but crats really are the best at way too many things -- Init debuffing, Shackles single snare, calming, mezzing (the ONLY profession!?), AAO/AAD auras and they even have pets and fantastic dd to boot. You could even take Workplace Depression and give it to an MP, and I'd still take crat over MP any day, and that's pretty sad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jijie2 View Post
    have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword ?

  5. #25
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Byste's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Rofl, how you managed to team anybody before the XP/SK reward nerf is beyond me since nobody did those pre 215.
    This is completely wrong for two reasons -- 1, the SK isn't really nerfed. 2, I think nearly everyone does these quests to at least some extent before 215, especially the Ado/Pen questlines. Spec 3 and 4 are invaluable to everyone, for starters. Tier armor rewards get very few people excited, sure, but the Penumbra questline also gives Codex Divello for twinking and the Alappaa nano (not to mention alappaa pads) that just about everyone wants before 215, and the Ado brain is actually pretty good for a few professions, not to mention the Ring of Divine Teardrops and 160 Yuttos NCU.

    Scheol questline is often shunned until 215 though, I will totally give you that. Unless someone wants the Ring of Computing, or if the nano reward is actually really good, such as for NT or MP, or if someone is making a pre-215 twink.
    Clan for life

    Great orgs:
    -Defenders of Rubi Ka (PvM)
    -Devil Inside (PvP)
    -Equilibrium


    Quote Originally Posted by jijie2 View Post
    have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword ?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Byste View Post
    This is completely wrong for two reasons -- 1, the SK isn't really nerfed. 2, I think nearly everyone does these quests to at least some extent before 215, especially the Ado/Pen questlines. Spec 3 and 4 are invaluable to everyone, for starters. Tier armor rewards get very few people excited, sure, but the Penumbra questline also gives Codex Divello for twinking and the Alappaa nano (not to mention alappaa pads) that just about everyone wants before 215, and the Ado brain is actually pretty good for a few professions, not to mention the Ring of Divine Teardrops and 160 Yuttos NCU.

    Scheol questline is often shunned until 215 though, I will totally give you that. Unless someone wants the Ring of Computing, or if the nano reward is actually really good, such as for NT or MP, or if someone is making a pre-215 twink.
    1. Yes it is, it no longer scales to your level.
    2. Ado Brain is a long, cumbersome and sometimes, not needed questline. Pen quest you can't even complete pre-200 since you need to enter Alappaa and without a team of 5 other orgmates to take you through there and carry your squishy ass, you'll have a whale of a time getting anywhere.

    Spec 3 & 4 are obtainable through other means.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Rofl, how you managed to team anybody before the XP/SK reward nerf is beyond me since nobody did those pre 215.
    Obviously you could not join one of my teams.

    FYI- My 150 MA twink- both Ado brain AND Pen quest done, 160 for my Enfo, Crat, and Keep Ado brain, 180 Pen quests nanos. For a proper toon of those professions Pen quest IS a needed quest. Ado brain is usefull for any toon 160+ as it's compairable to top end brain symb, and for some profs it's just as good or better than beta brain.

    So while you are sitting around in med suit with xp pistols worried about the sk after 210, I prefer actual players who know there profs and tools throughout their leveling, not just use cookie cutter endgame setup with little to no experience using it.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Obviously you could not join one of my teams.

    FYI- My 150 MA twink- both Ado brain AND Pen quest done, 160 for my Enfo, Crat, and Keep Ado brain, 180 Pen quests nanos. For a proper toon of those professions Pen quest IS a needed quest. Ado brain is usefull for any toon 160+ as it's compairable to top end brain symb, and for some profs it's just as good or better than beta brain.

    So while you are sitting around in med suit with xp pistols worried about the sk after 210, I prefer actual players who know there profs and tools throughout their leveling, not just use cookie cutter endgame setup with little to no experience using it.
    Nice projection bro. I was referring to the fact that the majority never bothered and yet were still capable of playing the profession well and well enough to have fast Inf Hards. Maybe RK1 bred a lower class of player or something, I dunno, but not once did I have any problems in an Inf mish with someone who skipped Xan quests on RK2.

    But by all means, carry on with your superiority complex about who you think should be deemed worthy to team with you, I'm sure you're such a pro that everyone knows you are unbeatable on an MP and thus the best player ingame etc etc
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    1. Yes it is, it no longer scales to your level.
    Are you sure this is the case? And when? As far as i know they only nerfed the sk/rewards for the garden/sanc quests. The pf specific quests(ie. Scheol, ado, pen, inf questlines) still gave daily rewards commensurate to your level. Just a few months before merge i did scheol quest on couple of 218s to push them toward 220 and got substantial rewards from it, quite a few dailies worth. Think i was close to dinging 220 just from the rewards from that quest.

    So unless its changed in last couple months, i think you're mistaken
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    But by all means, carry on with your superiority complex about who you think should be deemed worthy to team with you
    I think the point was I prefer a good player regardless of prof. The amount of effort someone places in making sure their toon is in good working order says a lot about the player. I would happily take a great engi over avg soldier for any encounter. Or superior shade vs horrible enfo. Bad crat I would sub excellent trader or NT. 12man is really nice to have a boss calm crat, but with good enfo it can be done without a crat and sub in extra doc for safety.

    So call it what you want but I don't want to team with sub-par players that don't care about their toon performance being optimal through out their leveling process.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    Are you sure this is the case? And when? As far as i know they only nerfed the sk/rewards for the garden/sanc quests. The pf specific quests(ie. Scheol, ado, pen, inf questlines) still gave daily rewards commensurate to your level. Just a few months before merge i did scheol quest on couple of 218s to push them toward 220 and got substantial rewards from it, quite a few dailies worth. Think i was close to dinging 220 just from the rewards from that quest.

    So unless its changed in last couple months, i think you're mistaken
    All the Xan quests changed alongside the key quests in terms of XP/SK unless you are within a set level boundary.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    All the Xan quests changed alongside the key quests in terms of XP/SK unless you are within a set level boundary.
    Ummmm, no they didn't. Key quest rewards were nerfed unless within set level boundary(over a year ago, if not 2 or more) but the other sl zone specific quests weren't. Like i said, i just got the benefits of the un-nerfed scheol quest rewards on a 218 char just a few months ago. Most completed steps of that quest resulted in full daily reward for a 218(and then 219 after)
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    Ummmm, no they didn't. Key quest rewards were nerfed unless within set level boundary(over a year ago, if not 2 or more) but the other sl zone specific quests weren't. Like i said, i just got the benefits of the un-nerfed scheol quest rewards on a 218 char just a few months ago. Most completed steps of that quest resulted in full daily reward for a 218(and then 219 after)
    My Trader got barely any XP when he did the quests outside of the range, hence why I said it.

    Also: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=597188
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  14. #34
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Byste's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    My Trader got barely any XP when he did the quests outside of the range, hence why I said it.

    Also: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=597188
    I thought you quit forever ago?

    Anyway just the other day a 220 friend ran through the scheol quests and got 3.5 LE10s out of it, so I'm calling bull**** on sk nerf for the SL non-key quests.
    Clan for life

    Great orgs:
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    -Devil Inside (PvP)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jijie2 View Post
    have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword ?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    My Trader got barely any XP when he did the quests outside of the range, hence why I said it.

    Also: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=597188
    Have you actually been ingame recently to test this? I'm not sure what you were doing on your trader to get very little xp for those quests unless you were just doing key quests.

    Also that thread you referred to seems to just be a lot of people reacting to what they thought was a change without anyone actually trying to see if there was any effect. No wonder FC ignored the feedback if it was complaining about something that wasnt actually true. There was another thread posted at the same time(post patch) where i had actually pointed out that the normal sl quests rewards hadnt been affected at all. http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=596968

    Since then, in the past 6 months, I've levelled an enf, doc, sol to 220 keeping most of the sl zone quests to be done 215+ to get massive amounts of sk as quest rewards. And i know others who've done the same so its not like I've got some exploit on my account

    When i get home from work later, i can test this with a 220 advy who hasn't done the scheol quest and confirm this properly as of current state

    EDIT: I just did the start of the scheol quest, and just for first few steps, got a few daily rewards(for a 220) for each completion so it definitely has not been nerfed, not for non-key quests.... So that's at least 3 times I've personally tested this and found this assertion that non-key SL quest rewards have been nerfed to be nonsense.

    1) once right after the patch that supposedly nerfed it a year ago,
    2) recently throughout the last 6 months I used it to help level 3 toons 215+ to 220, and
    3) again tonight, I've just tested it again.

    I have no idea what game you're playing, Raggy, but its not Anarchy Online....
    Last edited by cybertron; Mar 21st, 2013 at 12:05:18.
    RK2 - Pimpmyride 220 Engi!

  16. #36
    on my adv i get a worthless brain from ado, and a pit lizard scale buff from pen. trololol? not gonna waste my time and xp doing those when i can just do those at tl7 to cut down on the number of inf mishes i have to do.

    scheol quest i dont do out of principle. f that quest. whoever made it deserves to spend an eternity in hell doing that quest over and over again while being chased by a ranged atrox pistol advy.

  17. #37
    so team composition. What was the last time you had fun and what team did you use?

    Gauntlet, Fixer, Agent, Advy, Advy, Advy, Fixer. A team made of people who nobody else wanted. It was epic, I believe we got to 4th floor, mybe even won? I just remember spming hots, kiting trying to alpha adds...

    Do I remember times we used doc+crat? Honestly no. I have done gauntlet 100 times probably, only memorable ones was when it was hard. Poor tank, poor healing or no init debuffs.

    In my mind a quick nerf to docs enfs and crats would make every round memorable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  18. #38
    No-ones forcing you to use docs enfs or crats, lol

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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Byste View Post
    I thought you quit forever ago?

    Anyway just the other day a 220 friend ran through the scheol quests and got 3.5 LE10s out of it, so I'm calling bull**** on sk nerf for the SL non-key quests.
    I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by cybertron View Post
    Have you actually been ingame recently to test this? I'm not sure what you were doing on your trader to get very little xp for those quests unless you were just doing key quests.

    Also that thread you referred to seems to just be a lot of people reacting to what they thought was a change without anyone actually trying to see if there was any effect. No wonder FC ignored the feedback if it was complaining about something that wasnt actually true. There was another thread posted at the same time(post patch) where i had actually pointed out that the normal sl quests rewards hadnt been affected at all. http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=596968

    Since then, in the past 6 months, I've levelled an enf, doc, sol to 220 keeping most of the sl zone quests to be done 215+ to get massive amounts of sk as quest rewards. And i know others who've done the same so its not like I've got some exploit on my account

    When i get home from work later, i can test this with a 220 advy who hasn't done the scheol quest and confirm this properly as of current state

    EDIT: I just did the start of the scheol quest, and just for first few steps, got a few daily rewards(for a 220) for each completion so it definitely has not been nerfed, not for non-key quests.... So that's at least 3 times I've personally tested this and found this assertion that non-key SL quest rewards have been nerfed to be nonsense.

    1) once right after the patch that supposedly nerfed it a year ago,
    2) recently throughout the last 6 months I used it to help level 3 toons 215+ to 220, and
    3) again tonight, I've just tested it again.

    I have no idea what game you're playing, Raggy, but its not Anarchy Online....
    Then something has changed since last year when I was levelling my Trader since I went and did the Scheol Xan quest at 185 and got maybe half a level out of all of it.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  20. #40
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Byste's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    on my adv i get a worthless brain from ado, and a pit lizard scale buff from pen. trololol? not gonna waste my time and xp doing those when i can just do those at tl7 to cut down on the number of inf mishes i have to do.

    scheol quest i dont do out of principle. f that quest. whoever made it deserves to spend an eternity in hell doing that quest over and over again while being chased by a ranged atrox pistol advy.
    I quite agree that some prof rewards for Scheol, Ado brain and Alappaa are pretty crappy. The only prof I'm actually really glad I did the ado brain on was my Doctor. Most Alappaa rewards are good I believe but for example if you only play pvm then the fixer reward is useless and skippable, etc. The scheol nanos are often a waste of time for anyone who isn't a twink because there's usually something better out there for higher levels or it's ultimately inconsequential -- engineer miniaturization? It can be nice but really has no effect.

    But these quests are still at least worthwhile pursuing partially... For new players, doing the scheol quest at least part of the way I would say is actually quite rewarding. You learn how PBs work and you get a free novictum refiner tool. Some experienced players really need to do this quest and pay attention to it, I find it pretty pathetic when 220s don't understand PBs. The Adonis quest is definitely worth doing up through Spec 3 since it's the most efficient way I know to get Spec3, and the twinking ring is nice to earn at least twice (they're tradeable so you can get two for twinking), and 160 Yuttos NCU is certainly valuable. The Penumbra quest again has good rewards such as efficient Spec 4 (if you can find a 220 to waltz in and smash Tupolainen/whatever in the Pipe), and Codex Divello for twinking.
    Clan for life

    Great orgs:
    -Defenders of Rubi Ka (PvM)
    -Devil Inside (PvP)
    -Equilibrium


    Quote Originally Posted by jijie2 View Post
    have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword ?

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