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Thread: Why nerf?

  1. #1

    Why nerf?

    Why do devs always seem to think that the solution to whining players is to nerf? It never ends, it only gets worse. Even if you started with a perfectly balanced game, someone would still whine about some imagined superiority of another class/race/gender/weapon/hairball.

    Look at D&D, for instance. They had a great game until they started listening to players whining about how arcane casters are "OP". (What these whining players fail to understand in this case is that arcane casters have a low survivability early-game in exchange for more power end-game.) Then they came out with 4th edition - the worst excuse for a tabletop game I have ever had the misfortune to even consider playing. In response, a group of unsatisfied players developed Pathfinder - much like 3rd edition, but with some great additions. These additions balanced each class very well, without the need to remove anything that was in 3rd edition D&D.

    The moral: nerfing hurts the game far more than it hurts the players because it hurts players.

    Another moral: in WotC vs Pathfinder, a US court set the precedent that a game system cannot be copyrighted; the same fate can befall ANY game that follows the same pattern.

    I do not want to see AO turn out like D&D. There's plenty of space to fill things out for all profs and the majority of players just want to see some cool new toys to liven things up. Whiners either want attention (new content) or better rewards for less work.
    Last edited by brokennex; May 21st, 2013 at 09:07:14.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by brokennex View Post
    arcane casters have a low survivability early-game in exchange for more power end-game.
    that is a horrible design for any mmo that focuses on endgame.

    much like agents in AO. one-shotting all mobs up to borgs is not a good reason why their dps should suck at endgame.
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  3. #3
    what is this i dont even

  4. #4
    I agree, we need less nerf and more op items introduced

    O'wait

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  5. #5
    After 7 years of playing an enforcer, I can assure you, it needs to be nerfed. Every profession has tools that need to be nerfed, even keepers and MPs.

  6. #6

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    After 7 years of playing an enforcer, I can assure you, it needs to be nerfed. Every profession has tools that need to be nerfed, even keepers and MPs.

    i've only one lv220 toon in my 8yrs of on and off playing...and i've always been "nerf" i dont even know what "op" is?

    is it "Opifex" cause that's the toon i'm playing ^_=. seriously i feel "nerf" already
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    even keepers and MPs.
    What are the Keeper tool(s) you would want to see nerfed ?

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    What are the Keeper tool(s) you would want to see nerfed ?
    Please consider this in a very broad spectrum of mass overhauls and nerfs with all professions occuring simultaneously.

    The strength of the 2he perks would need to be reduced a bit, mostly SnD. Keepers need improvements as well, but the 2he perks would be unbalanced if other professions were nerfed in ways that keepers could reliably perk evaders without being atrox. Which means I believe keepers should be perking evaders as they lack effective dimach/SA options and hotswapping is supposedly going away too.

    Beyond that, it would be all improvements as far as I am concerned.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Otansaanpas View Post
    that is a horrible design for any mmo that focuses on endgame.

    much like agents in AO. one-shotting all mobs up to borgs is not a good reason why their dps should suck at endgame.
    I agree, it would be a bad design in an MMO. My point is that the devs ruined their own game by listening to players whining about the end-game power of arcane casters. Their response was to make every class more or less the same (along with trying to introduce MMO elements into a PnP game).

    Point is, yielding to whiners ruins games. I used a pen and paper game to illustrate this fact, because it is an example I know well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    After 7 years of playing an enforcer, I can assure you, it needs to be nerfed. Every profession has tools that need to be nerfed, even keepers and MPs.
    What sense does nerfing every prof make? You're talking about bringing down the overall sense of power the players feel, the sense of reward for all the work they put in to get to max level and to be well equipped.

    That said, I don't think that nerfing should never be done. I just don't believe it should be the go-to move for devs when people start talking about the "superiority" of another prof. There is always the solution of adding things to people's toolsets (not over-powered, as this only shifts the problem) or making some tools a little more effective, rather than taking them away or making them less effective.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by brokennex View Post
    Why do devs always seem to think that the solution to whining players is to nerf?
    Probably because they don't fully realize the outcome of the power creep they keep introducing into game until it's been fully explored by player base? So you can call it a nerf I call it rebalancing.

    Like buying a teenager a new car, until they rack up 10-15 speeding tickets/violations you might not realize you have to "nerf" access to it and take their keys.
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  11. #11
    nerf tools not professions... Evades, AS, fix those and job is nearly done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Georgesmith View Post
    nerf tools not professions... Evades, AS, fix those and job is nearly done.
    The 2 are not so seperate, nerf evades you will nerf fixers/keepers, nerf AS you will nerf Agents.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by brokennex View Post
    What sense does nerfing every prof make?
    Because the only reason some professions are not overpowered is because of the more overpowered tools of other professions. FC practically needs to start from scratch to have a chance at balancing this game, even then they lack the resources to do so realistically. At best, we might see the most obvious things get fixed.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Please consider this in a very broad spectrum of mass overhauls and nerfs with all professions occuring simultaneously.

    The strength of the 2he perks would need to be reduced a bit, mostly SnD. Keepers need improvements as well, but the 2he perks would be unbalanced if other professions were nerfed in ways that keepers could reliably perk evaders without being atrox. Which means I believe keepers should be perking evaders as they lack effective dimach/SA options and hotswapping is supposedly going away too.

    Beyond that, it would be all improvements as far as I am concerned.
    SnD used to be overpowered, but even if profs were nerfed, I think it wouldn't be OP anymore. The main reason it was OP was being able to hit evaders and cause everyone went low HP back then. Now higher HP is more feasible in PvP and it's easier to get higher HP overall, it's not as OP as it was in 07ish. In conjunction with Mongo Rage, I'd agree though.

  15. #15
    That's sort of why I like the perk documentation version. 40 second recharge, but only 2 hits instead of 4.

  16. #16
    At least PvP caps aren't 40% anymore!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    what is this i dont even
    That's what I said.
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