Fixer Team Meep at Towers

[Lazy]

The issue is rk2 clans having never owned towers on their server piggybacking rk1 clans success and finding out owning a field isn't all sunshine and roses like they thought. Just saying.

All the arguements in this thread remind me of old grannies from some small town in america demanding a ban on cooking knives because someone got shanked down the road lol

[Contra]

Actually, rk2 clans owned more towers and had more constant side XP over the years. Clans also brought omnis to 0% more times(before this meeping trend).
Lazy, I'm not in it for breaking the fixer toolset. I really couldn't {care} about that, but when you deal with a team of 6 that abuse this mechanic you need to ask the people in charge to take measures. And they did. Michi said if you do it repeatedly, it's harassment. So, if you don't like the proposed changes and start yapping about the nerf hammer, then by all means...continue to abuse the mechanic. I'm willing to bet that if you do it every day on 3-4 tower sites, you won't have an open account by the end of the week.

Tower wars were about lag fest, AS fest, assist wars and tactic. This is nowhere near PvP and it has to change.
Thanks

[Wakizaka]

The issue is rk2 clans having never owned towers on their server piggybacking rk1 clans success

Wait, what ?

But then again, I have never seen you at a single TL7 Off/Def since merge, so not like you would know what's happening...

[Lazy]

Too busy levelling my monk

[Armus]

I think meeping at wars is just retarded. If someone were to make a video of what the massive battles that FC talks about, to show what wars are REALLY like 90% of the time.. Where one force constantly chases the other one and they just meep before there is any actual fighting happening at all. It's laughable stuff.

Now.. I can actually live with it like that.. But what really destroys the experience is when it goes from chasing/meeping/chasing/meepingchasing/meeping etc to chasing/meeping. waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttt ttiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg ggggggggggggggggggggggggggg.chasing/meepingwaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttt tttttttttiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

Etc etc.

Now.. this is just what I think. But.. I am rather certain that I am one of the ppl in game who is prepared to sacrifice the most time at towerwars.. And even I think this sort of tactic is just lame beyond belief. It's not evenremotely fun, there is no fighting whatsoever, just lameness..

This is not about wearing your enemy down, it's about making them hate the game and quitting. It's harassment.

[Vispa]

It's always lame and laughable when the opposing side does something you don't like. You're willing to sacrifice time for defending yet you're not willing to go to a site for 10 seconds to press q and make someone go poof? Such hard work.

Funny you mention this now by the way, considering EQ griefers sure didn't make a fuss about it when Eddiemeduza and a few others did it for 1-2 months right before the rk1 clan victory pre-merge. (And yes even you were there a few times, Mr. Valkas)

[Gatester]

Omni still bringing up the tower syncing QQ as if it is actually some sort of argument?

Rather than griefing how about making an actual tower attack group like Toyhazard is trying to do, take some sites, and defend them. If you lose them then you lose them, but keep this in mind;

The MOMENT a clan org attempts to sync their tower sites again, petition them for abuse of mechanics. This nonsense about "oh, well you do annoying things too" is a pathetic argument with no relation to the problem at hand. It does not matter which side is meep griefing and which side is tower syncing, they are both poor practices that should be petitioned until fixed via patch changes to the mechanics themselves. Stop being childish about it and work toward the solution. Punish behavior that deserves it rather than using it as an excuse to do the same things yourselves.

[Gatester]

And just as a side question, but how does fixers being a fast and nimble escape profession justify them making their entire team equally fast and nimble? The key part being "equally" fast and nimble. It has always bugged me when a profession consists of team supportive tools nearly equivalent to the benefits they receive from their own toolset. I do not mind any of the tools fixers have when it concerns their self only capabilities, but their team buffing seems excessive. Support should not function in that manner in my opinion and should be a partial increase in strength instead.

Crats could buff less AAD and AAO than they self-buff.
Engineers could have weaker team blockers than their self-only blockers.
Doctors could heal themselves more than they can heal others (makes it easier to balance doctors in PVE and PVP).

I can go on with many professions, but just consider how soldier team reflects work, does that not seem much more balanced? Enforcers are not buffing team health by 30k, and traders boost skills by up to 156 or so instead of 500. It's just more sensible that way.

[Vispa]

The MOMENT a clan org attempts to sync their tower sites again, petition them for abuse of mechanics. This nonsense about "oh, well you do annoying things too" is a pathetic argument with no relation to the problem at hand. It does not matter which side is meep griefing and which side is tower syncing, they are both poor practices that should be petitioned until fixed via patch changes to the mechanics themselves. Stop being childish about it and work toward the solution. Punish behavior that deserves it rather than using it as an excuse to do the same things yourselves.

Thing being, meep griefing isn't as gamebreaking nor is it as "harassing" as people make it out to be. A huge part of the population can't deal with adjusting to situations. There is plenty of ways to stop the fixer ( Which have already been mentioned plenty of times). Yet only thing coming to the mind is "OMG SO ANNOYING LEAVE THEM ALONE PETITION."

But for the sake of agreement, tower site hot times are rather long, being one of the reasons meep griefing seems like such a crime. Lower duration, change the hour cycle.

Comparing the "practices" of a fixer using their toolset and a faction syncing their sites is pretty off from each other, which should be kind of clear to see. A faction attacking the same faction? ( And this includes making other faction toons to do it, something Aion did right, can't roll more than one faction on an account, catch up FC)

There are many, many things that can make up a list of broken things in this game. While fixer meep ( Hi toolset, why you not cause any balance issues in the other 13 classes? Oh wait.) can be annoying, it's one of the least/lowest things that should be priority in regards to getting looked into, personally.

[Contra]

Omni still bringing up the tower syncing QQ as if it is actually some sort of argument?

Rather than griefing how about making an actual tower attack group like Toyhazard is trying to do, take some sites, and defend them. If you lose them then you lose them, but keep this in mind;

The MOMENT a clan org attempts to sync their tower sites again, petition them for abuse of mechanics. This nonsense about "oh, well you do annoying things too" is a pathetic argument with no relation to the problem at hand. It does not matter which side is meep griefing and which side is tower syncing, they are both poor practices that should be petitioned until fixed via patch changes to the mechanics themselves. Stop being childish about it and work toward the solution. Punish behavior that deserves it rather than using it as an excuse to do the same things yourselves.

/thread

Thing being, meep griefing isn't as gamebreaking nor is it as "harassing" as people make it out to be. A huge part of the population can't deal with adjusting to situations.

Actually, it is game breaking and the entire population shouldn't be forced to "adjust" to every dude that's abusing game mechanics, no matter what side he's on. Are these people actually doing tower wars? NO. So why should we play like them and not play like it's supposed to? Where are the real wars??? If you go on youtube, you'll find several clips of tower wars. Keep one of those in mind and next time you go to a tower war...start comparing.

[Adva]

Omni still bringing up the tower syncing QQ as if it is actually some sort of argument?

Rather than griefing how about making an actual tower attack group like Toyhazard is trying to do, take some sites, and defend them. If you lose them then you lose them, but keep this in mind;

The MOMENT a clan org attempts to sync their tower sites again, petition them for abuse of mechanics. This nonsense about "oh, well you do annoying things too" is a pathetic argument with no relation to the problem at hand. It does not matter which side is meep griefing and which side is tower syncing, they are both poor practices that should be petitioned until fixed via patch changes to the mechanics themselves. Stop being childish about it and work toward the solution. Punish behavior that deserves it rather than using it as an excuse to do the same things yourselves.

Hey! You know that'd be just a SWELL idea if, listen close because here's the kicker, me and others in my time zone had the ability to attack high level towers. But thanks to syncing we don't. Other than that one big hurdle your plan is pretty genius, wonder why nobody else had thought of that.

Oh oh, guess what? I JUST remembered, they HAVE been petitioned before and guess what else, NOTHING has been done about it. Notta, zip, zero, even though clans OPENLY admit to syncing timers on these very forums. But it's OK, I guess the people who grief and take down towers, you know the "right" way, will just have to deal with being warned and/or banned. And those of us who don't live in EU prime time will just have to deal not having access to a part of the game we pay for. It's funny too, after Para actually TOOK a site people were still warned for griefing. Seriously?

I'll be just as "childish" as I wanna be, thank you very much. I'm not the one hiding behind some veiled excuse to keep towers in one time zone as being "good for the game," when in reality it's just an excuse to not have to defend your sites.

[Contra]

Save it for another thread, Adva. This is about fixers and their abuse of game mechanics. You are welcome to report tower syncing to GMs via /petition OR you can make another thread about it. While you're reporting, make sure to also include Paradise, The Pain Dealers, Dark Front, Infamous and other omni orgs since, DOH, they also have been doing it since NW release. This is an issue that BOTH sides do, so stop trying to point fingers at others and buy a mirror.
Also, regardless if Paradise took down a site, it's how they did it that actually matters. If they did it like Artificers used to do it, then they should've been banned, not warned.

[Adva]

Save it for another thread, Adva. This is about fixers and their abuse of game mechanics.

I've made my case for it and I'll make it again. Fixers team meeping from towers is a legitimate tactic. The higher ups from FC have stated the guidelines for using and abusing the game mechanic. Whether they were passed along to the lower level peons or not is up for debate, since even those falling within the recommended guidelines are still being petitioned and warned. Whew, now that that's out of the way.

You are welcome to report tower syncing to GMs via /petition OR you can make another thread about it.

D'aw, they're so cute when they're mad. I was just replying to a point somebody else brought up. If you had read what I posted, it has been petitioned numerous times and even though openly admitting to it, nothing has been done. If I sat here openly claiming I was abusing a game mechanic, you think I wouldn't get a ban? No, I'd have a forced vacation I'm sure.

While you're reporting, make sure to also include Paradise, The Pain Dealers, Dark Front, Infamous and other omni orgs since, DOH, they also have been doing it since NW release. This is an issue that BOTH sides do, so stop trying to point fingers at others and buy a mirror.

As long as I've been a member of Paradise, I've never seen one mention of intentionally moving timers around. Ever. If we had in fact moved timers, I'd have never had to stay on till 2am or later defending all different sites and ranges. As for the other orgs, I can't speak of them since I've never been in them. Nice try though.

Also, regardless if Paradise took down a site, it's how they did it that actually matters. If they did it like Artificers used to do it, then they should've been banned, not warned.

Just how many ways are there to take a site? Get there, kill towers and/or go straight for CT, kill CT, plant a CT, hold it till it closes then /profit? Don't see how killing a CT could be "bannable," but meh, guess anything is possible.

Now, run along child. The adults are speaking.

[Contra]

Now, run along child. The adults are speaking.

Wanted to give you a reply, but this is more appropriate: http://i.imgur.com/Ph6Ei.gif

[Adva]

Wanted to give you a reply, but this is more appropriate: http://i.imgur.com/Ph6Ei.gif

It's OK, I'd be pretty speechless too if I couldn't refute anything in an argument I was getting beat in.

[Contra]

Oh you sure made it. To you, fixers meeping from a fight along with an entire raidforce is "cool". To us, players and GMs, is not and it's bannable.
What argument did you beat me in? First, you were talking about a completely different issue(wich means you're trolling), second you were saying you don't know about Paradise and other org's tactics(wich means you're clueless). I know more about your organization and your side then you and I've never been in Paradise nor have I ever been omni, lol.
Also, the GIF I posted earlyer does't mean I didn't have a reply. It meant you posted something entirely different then the subject of conversation and you weren't worthy of a straight answer. Now, as you said, run along child and let the adults talk.

PS: loved the grammar!

[wonderland]

Hey guys, why don't we just petition when we see something bad happen?

Oh wait, 8h long queue times, by the time they respond the tower site was planted and 75%. If you see someone duplicating items, 3500 runspeed, flying while attacking, and one shotting Artillery Commanders at the same time, you couldn't expect them to get banned because a GM would never get to the petition before they stopped.

[Vispa]

/thread


Actually, it is game breaking and the entire population shouldn't be forced to "adjust" to every dude that's abusing game mechanics, no matter what side he's on. Are these people actually doing tower wars? NO. So why should we play like them and not play like it's supposed to? Where are the real wars??? If you go on youtube, you'll find several clips of tower wars. Keep one of those in mind and next time you go to a tower war...start comparing.

How is going to a site repeatedly to press q on a guy so he bails the hell out game breaking? Sorry to burst your bubble, but all of us have been through it, not just you and your precious faction. And not all of us see it as bad as you make it seem to be.

Are they actually doing tower wars? Yes siree they are indeed, they are Qing a site, hence, tower attack.

So moving sites to specific timezone where a faction wants to put them and side bots with assist is the WAY tower wars should be? Lol. As for the petition thing, yeah, what Wonderland said. So remind me again, if people shouldn't be "forced" into adjusting to how class's toolsets are, why should a side be forced to "adjust" to tower syncing into only certain hours of the day?

Before complaining of a little piece of a class's toolset, worry about bigger things that are much more annoying and actually HARD to deal with (And no, going into grid, into site, and pressing q isn't one of them)

[Adva]

Oh you sure made it. To you, fixers meeping from a fight along with an entire raidforce is "cool". To us, players and GMs, is not and it's bannable.

I never said it was "cool," what I did say was that it is a legitimate tactic that even FC deems OK as long as you don't abuse it. Is it really that hard to understand? If you still don't get it I can type up two different scenarios that should pretty easily show the difference between the two types of griefing.

What argument did you beat me in? First, you were talking about a completely different issue(wich means you're trolling),

Firstly, any argument you have that all fixers meeping from tower sites should be banned, and definitely any argument you have that tower syncing is "good for the game.". And no, trolling was more when I called you a child or said how you're cute when you're mad. I was merely responding to another post that brought up syncing in this thread then you decided to jump in, and here we are.

second you were saying you don't know about Paradise and other org's tactics(wich means you're clueless). I know more about your organization and your side then you and I've never been in Paradise nor have I ever been omni, lol.

Secondly, I said I didn't know about DF or other omni orgs. I've been in Para long enough and done enough towers with them to know that we have never intentionally shifted timers. Ever. So if you "think" you know more about Para than me, I'm gonna call BS. I don't claim to know what goes on in clan orgs, but it's really not hard to see how the syncing is taking place, especially when you look at all the data. I can't speak for other orgs but I do know what goes on in Para so please quit trying to twist my words or put words in my mouth.

Also, the GIF I posted earlyer does't mean I didn't have a reply. It meant you posted something entirely different then the subject of conversation and you weren't worthy of a straight answer. Now, as you said, run along child and let the adults talk.

That gif, to me, looked like somebody who was trying to respond to a comment but gave up. I guess we see it differently. I can go back and quote, again, what I responded to if you'd like. They brought up syncing and I merely responded to their post, not the other way around.

PS: loved the grammar!

I may be wrong, but I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic with this one. If so, I'm sorry my grammar wasn't up to your standards and when I'm not on my phone at work, I'll edit this post accordingly. If not, disregard this part.

[Gatester]

Vispa, I personally am not comparing the severity of meep griefing to tower syncing, in-fact I consider the tower syncing a FAR worse abuse of the mechanics. This thread is not about that issue, but I would agree that the syncing of tower sites to avoid losing the site is a worse issue and should result in the destruction of that site by a GM. Saying that meep griefing is not too bad as far as harassing goes, however, is not something you can claim because harassment is determined by the perception of the one experiencing it.

You can have a few players harasssing 100's of players in the same time-frame with no intent to actually PVP but simply disrupt their activities by forcing players to respond to the attack and immediately leaving the area. If stopping the fixer was even remotely plausible in most cases, as no one is really brain dead enough to not know how to meep before they even get attacked in these cases, then it would not be an issue. As you also mentioned, the long tower cycle times are a large part of this problem. Were the sites open for an hour and a half rather than the four to five hours the sites can be attacked, then it would be less problematic for players to be disrupted for the majority of their game time.


I will make one last point about the tower syncing. When both omni and clan have done it in the past, omni and clan have both taken tower sites that were synced in the past. Saying you cannot take those sites is not true, although it is far more difficult it only forces you to put forth more effort to take them. That effort is excessive, and should not be required, but I would rather see the point made being that it is too hard rather than impossible.

If anyone see's a clan org attack clan org message (or the same with omni) followed by a clan victory and shortly followed by another clan victory from the original org, all of this should be recorded and sent along with a petition. It may not always work at first, but remember that petitioning meep griefing did not cause bans or even warnings at first either. Make the case for it, continue to petition it, petition it en masse with as many as you can, and hopefully we can get these things changed.