Fixer Team Meep at Towers

[Mamman]

Hi, I wanna derail the thread more by making these suggestions about towers.

1. Increase all towers HP substantially.
2. Give them an open/closed cycle that adds up to something else than 24 hours to make them naturally change what time they go hot.
3. Make towersites still act as 75% areas for anyone who is not within the LCAs level range to low level PVP becomes viable.
4. Introduce guardian conductor of SB+OS and Massive banning turrets

Good to see you're keeping things interesting DW

PS: I remember Inner Circle being good when it came to taking sites during dead hours, they had a lot of people who happened to be in the Romuland+12 Timezone

[SistemError]

Right now on this new server "Rubi-Ka" clans are OP by numbers, omni are not, clans have all TL7 tower sites, omni is trying to get them back but they are overwhelmed by clans and the only option for them is guerrilla war tactics.Clans get upset because they want to kill omnis but fixers meep them too fast so clans decided to petition FC to modify the game.But why stop here, why not change the whole game to favor one and only one faction?
Is their choice to fight like this not because they are cowards but because they are outnumbered and perhaps less organized.
You cant change a game tools just because the other side dont want to fight with you for the reasons that we all know

[Gatester]

Right now on this new server "Rubi-Ka" clans are OP by numbers, omni are not, clans have all TL7 tower sites, omni is trying to get them back but they are overwhelmed by clans and the only option for them is guerrilla war tactics.Clans get upset because they want to kill omnis but fixers meep them too fast so clans decided to petition FC to modify the game.But why stop here, why not change the whole game to favor one and only one faction?
Is their choice to fight like this not because they are cowards but because they are outnumbered and perhaps less organized.
You cant change a game tools just because the other side dont want to fight with you for the reasons that we all know

This would be a good point and all if it was accurate. You think omni intend to take those sites with a single team? You think omni intend to take those sites when they sit in the grid to watch defenders zone and meep before players even "load" into the zone?

Omni are not using guerrilla tactics, they are leaving flaming bags of brown stuff on player's porches. It gets old, both sides have done it for too long, and the few players who use team meeping as a legitimate tactic are not exceptions validating it's use. If there were not so many short-sighted individuals then we could probably see that a tower war overhaul would eliminate the benefit of such tactics and make it reasonable for any group to initiate an effective attack.

[Editted by Haquihana - masked profanity removed.}

EDIT:

Replaced the edited word with "brown stuff"...would the "c" term for it have been better? Hard to tell when you get a warning for something like this.

{Venachar: 'Crap' is acceptable in most contexts, yes}

[viktory22]

Not to ruin this post gatester but a single team took mort3 a few days ago, also a single team took pw2 multiple times so your post is already invalid. Yes we took those sites got the contracts we needed and boom support brain alpha in.

Towers are meant to change hands stop clinging onto them petitioning and whining because its not in your favor when beast is about to happen and people hit your site. Towers are not permanent and its beginning to look like people want them to be. Which if we stay on this path of tower syncing, banning it will be.

On a side note how is it harassment to hit a tower since per EULA harassment is player to player? Since as far as I know player vs tower is pvm.

And if you say well that player owns the tower then they are the only ones who can petition? But if the tower crumbles its not. Very foggy on the rules

[Gatester]

My comment is not invalid, you are referring to different situations and issues. Of course a 220 tower site can be taken by a single team over a 4 hour period if no defenders are available to show up, that is not the problem. This is a problem with a low population and ridiculously long open times on tower sites.

Attacking tower sites with the sole intent of disrupting another faction or org is harassment, this is not something you can argue as it is a definition of the term in the statement. A small group taking advantage of a low population time to take a tower site is still at risk of being attacked, so it is a group of players trying to win a tower site through tactical means, not a group attempting to annoy others. I will say it again, but players who use meeping as a legitimate tactic are not exceptions to the argument. You cannot pick out 1 proper time it was done and say it suddenly justifies the 1000's of times players have abused their toolsets to entirely avoid PVP in PVP based encounters which force other players to participate.


The problem is not players thinking tower sites should be permanent fixtures...I seriously doubt anyone believes this...the problem is players who feel they should never die after initiating a PVP event with an inferior PVP group. If towers should be destroyed at tower sites then players should also be killed at those tower sites, there should be no "easy" ways to just instantly quit and go somewhere else to initiate more PVP attacks just to avoid the actual PVP itself. Let me try a different approach to this by asking a question instead, and I might even be convinced to change my opinion depending on the responses.


Why should the players who initiate PVP events be allowed to completely avoid PVP? Why should players be allowed to participate in PVP events if they have no intention of PVPing?

[Amerok]

Not only are Fixers the fastest profession in the game, they also make everyone else faster. While the meep can be said to unbalance the conflict, it is just as possible for these same individuals to literally hit and run, not just the fixer, the entire team. Speeder chases across the fields of Mort, only on foot, this would be more interesting in some cases, but not always. How many people make race car/speeder noises the first time they get their run speed high enough that you are faster than any yalm?

Still there is a certain amount of time it takes for someone to cross all of Rubi-Ka and the Shadowlands. Again, Fixers do it faster. That first time you ninja in and trash someone's tower only to grid out before they arrive. That feels good, coming from a background where I play a good deal of Shadowrun and Eclipse Phase, that feels even better. Stick it to the Man. The Clans didn't used to be the Man... well, you build a big enough empire, you control the world, and one day, Omni-Tek won't hold the world like it once did. The balance of the conflict has shifted over the years. There isn't really a need to change the team meep, perhaps the only real thing that would need to be changed. Extend the duration of crippled by the grid, make it awesome, make it feel good, but it's gonna be a drag trying to pull the strings of code that were and could some day be you again back together.

[Armus]

Not to ruin this post gatester but a single team took mort3 a few days ago, also a single team took pw2 multiple times so your post is already invalid. Yes we took those sites got the contracts we needed and boom support brain alpha in.

Thanks for admitting that the population is already small enough for single teams to take highbie fields "under the radar". Imagine the same fields being hot when the population is a quarter of what it is now. I can tell you if you can't. It would mean that ppl would constantly log on and realize their towers got killed at 5 am when noone was awake.

Can it get any lamer than that?

[Obtena]

^^ You make it sounds like that's a bad thing ... IMO that's how NW should work. Taking a tower site under the radar with one team is commendable, not lame. Maybe the lame part here is that the org owned a site they couldn't defend .... or that no one in their faction cared enough to even scout out the attack, realize it was a small TEAM and call for defenders .... or they planted at a time they though was untouchable. I mean, how long would it have taken for a single team to wipe that site?

Anyways, PVP and towersite areas should disable warping capabilities. The whole NW part of the game needs to be re-written frankly.

[Bonghigs]

Thanks for admitting that the population is already small enough for single teams to take highbie fields "under the radar". Imagine the same fields being hot when the population is a quarter of what it is now. I can tell you if you can't. It would mean that ppl would constantly log on and realize their towers got killed at 5 am when noone was awake.

Can it get any lamer than that?

Yes, it could get as lame as for an organization to use arguable tactics to effectively sync timers so that pvp can rarely (if ever) happen, effectively guaranteeing themselves the field.

Taking a field by playing smart and going under the radar: tactics
Keeping a field by boarderline-exploiting game mechanics so it only opens when you want it to: lame

^^ You make it sounds like that's a bad thing ... IMO that's how NW should work. Taking a tower site under the radar with one team is commendable, not lame. Maybe the lame part here is that the org owned a site they couldn't defend .... or that no one in their faction cared enough to even scout out the attack, realize it was a small TEAM and call for defenders .... or they planted at a time they though was untouchable. I mean, how long would it have taken for a single team to wipe that site?

Anyways, PVP and towersite areas should disable warping capabilities. The whole NW part of the game needs to be re-written frankly.

Don't agree with you often, but do here. Fields are meant to be won and lost, not held indefinitely. Some people seem to think they should own the fields indefinitely (and without significant defending/sacrifice for those gains) and that is the definition of lame imo.

[Lazy]

Yes, it could get as lame as for an organization to use arguable tactics to effectively sync timers so that pvp can rarely (if ever) happen, effectively guaranteeing themselves the field.

Taking a field by playing smart and going under the radar: tactics
Keeping a field by boarderline-exploiting game mechanics so it only opens when you want it to: lame




Don't agree with you often, but do here. Fields are meant to be won and lost, not held indefinitely. Some people seem to think they should own the fields indefinitely (and without significant defending/sacrifice for those gains) and that is the definition of lame imo.

i think what you meant to say was

"omnis taking fields: tactics
clans owning fields: lame"

[Armus]

^^ You make it sounds like that's a bad thing ... IMO that's how NW should work. Taking a tower site under the radar with one team is commendable, not lame. Maybe the lame part here is that the org owned a site they couldn't defend .... or that no one in their faction cared enough to even scout out the attack, realize it was a small TEAM and call for defenders .... or they planted at a time they though was untouchable. I mean, how long would it have taken for a single team to wipe that site?

Anyways, PVP and towersite areas should disable warping capabilities. The whole NW part of the game needs to be re-written frankly.

The lame part is that noone will be there to defend because noone will be online.

If you want NW to be pve in dead timezones then it will be great for you. But even now after merger, there isn't nearly enough pol in any other tz than euro prime to support any kind of major battles. It's just too dead.

[viktory22]

Thanks for admitting that the population is already small enough for single teams to take highbie fields "under the radar". Imagine the same fields being hot when the population is a quarter of what it is now. I can tell you if you can't. It would mean that ppl would constantly log on and realize their towers got killed at 5 am when noone was awake.

Can it get any lamer than that?

You make it seem like its under the radar. And yet when we took those sites we won pvp battles outnumbered and its funny you don't mention how you were there either..

This is just another attempt to bash and put down the opposing side without any fact behind it, not once did we take any of the sites without a pvp battle ensuing not once.


I'm also still confused why everything has to be 70 v 70 or bigger to be considered pvp. Battlestations and City pvp don't reach those numbers at all so why do towers have to be 70 v 70?
You want make towers more contested eliminate 25% of the fields at each level and fix the timers to begin with, instead of having plant orgs fill up 200 of the sites.

[Obtena]

The lame part is that noone will be there to defend because noone will be online.

Few things:

1. I doubt NO ONE was online to defend. I don't have proof but ... if faction A could muster a TEAM and take a field over .... hours? then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that in that time faction B MIGHT have someone online that could do anything to defend that site.

2. This goes to my point ... defending org placed right? They probably set there open timer to that stupid hour thinking no one would attack. The lame part isn't no one is online, the lame part is that they set their open time when no one was online. Bottom line ... if you want to keep a site, better place it when people can defend it.

3. You don't even need to place when no one is online to avoid attacks. As long as your site is open when everyone else's is, the chance yours is taken is a fraction of what it would be if it's the ONLY one open.

Problem here isn't population. It's more about NW mechanics. Even a super busy server is going to have non-busy times where things happen that are 'lame'.

[lainbr]

Bottom line ... if you want to keep a site, better place it when people can defend it.

But but but... The OP calls it "tower sync" and claims it should be a bannable exploit!

[viktory22]

But but but... The OP calls it "tower sync" and claims it should be a bannable exploit!

Kinda sad a professional is dropping this low, which is also funny because "tower sync" was already admitted in the last thread that got closed

The "tower sync" is not an exploit nor is it written anywhere it can't be done, but neither are other things that people abuse within the mechanics of the game. Tower syncing is just being called out since meeping was.

And as a professional wouldn't you want to see growth within AO?
Hence why people are asking for a whole remodeling of the NW problem

Few things:

1. I doubt NO ONE was online to defend. I don't have proof but ... if faction A could muster a TEAM and take a field over .... hours? then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that in that time faction B MIGHT have someone online that could do anything to defend that site.

2. This goes to my point ... defending org placed right? They probably set there open timer to that stupid hour thinking no one would attack. The lame part isn't no one is online, the lame part is that they set their open time when no one was online. Bottom line ... if you want to keep a site, better place it when people can defend it.

3. You don't even need to place when no one is online to avoid attacks. As long as your site is open when everyone else's is, the chance yours is taken is a fraction of what it would be if it's the ONLY one open.

Problem here isn't population. It's more about NW mechanics. Even a super busy server is going to have non-busy times where things happen that are 'lame'.

And no the tower was taken in Euro primetime - because the timers are on the same 24hr period, the only reason it was taken was because it went under the radar for a bit till CT then clan got wiped (they were led by Armus as well)

[Armus]

Yes, it could get as lame as for an organization to use arguable tactics to effectively sync timers so that pvp can rarely (if ever) happen, effectively guaranteeing themselves the field.

That might be argued if the fields were moved into dead timezones. But we (tnet) always moved them into the most active zone. Both for clan AND omni. So I am afraid that argument fails completely.

Taking a field by playing smart and going under the radar: tactics

There is nothing wrong with taking a field unnoticed whatsoever. Except that there is also no pvp involved, whatsoever. If that's what you think towers should be like, then I have nothing more to say on that issue.

Keeping a field by boarderline-exploiting game mechanics so it only opens when you want it to: lame

Actually, just because you say it's borderline xxx doesn't mean it is. And again, we keep them open when the most ammount of ppl on both sides are online. By a HUGE margin at that.

You only think it's lame because clan has a slight numerical advantage in those zones.

Don't agree with you often, but do here. Fields are meant to be won and lost, not held indefinitely. Some people seem to think they should own the fields indefinitely (and without significant defending/sacrifice for those gains) and that is the definition of lame imo.

Yes, having them taken at 4 am without defence would totally be so cool. It really would add flavour to the game. It so would make ppl wanna do towers.

[Armus]

Few things:

1. I doubt NO ONE was online to defend. I don't have proof but ... if faction A could muster a TEAM and take a field over .... hours? then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that in that time faction B MIGHT have someone online that could do anything to defend that site.

I think you overestimate how many are online at 5 am gmt. It's a ghost town in the vast majority of orgs.

2. This goes to my point ... defending org placed right? They probably set there open timer to that stupid hour thinking no one would attack. The lame part isn't no one is online, the lame part is that they set their open time when no one was online. Bottom line ... if you want to keep a site, better place it when people can defend it.

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about. But I can tell you that if you get ONE team of attackers now, there are probably less than 5 orgs on each side that could defend against that. At lower tl's you need even less. And this is at prime time. At Hawaii prime many orgs don't even have a single person awake. As it stands now, we can have the action happen when we have the most ppl online,but the suggestion in this thread is to have as much "action" when noone is online as during game prime time.

3. You don't even need to place when no one is online to avoid attacks. As long as your site is open when everyone else's is, the chance yours is taken is a fraction of what it would be if it's the ONLY one open.

Problem here isn't population. It's more about NW mechanics. Even a super busy server is going to have non-busy times where things happen that are 'lame'.

But AO isn't by any means super busy at any tz. So yeah, it is a population issue. And in AO it's very very pronounced. The difference in numbers between server prime and server low is 3:1. And if you look at stuff like tara attendance, lft list, s10 etc, you realize that a very big part of ppl during low tide are afk, so in reality it's closer to 4:1 or 5:1. So yeah, I think the population is the problem. If there were a decent population during at least US prime, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Armus]

You make it seem like its under the radar.

If there is attacks all over RK and we're chasing the attackers around it's exceedingly hard to know which field is taking damage if there is noone online to tell us what is happening. That is what I mean by under the radar.

And yet when we took those sites we won pvp battles outnumbered and its funny you don't mention how you were there either..

If you tell me which day and which fields we are talking about, I will tell you if I were there. Until then, save your insinuations.

This is just another attempt to bash and put down the opposing side without any fact behind it, not once did we take any of the sites without a pvp battle ensuing not once.

Speaking about fields being taken "under the radar" is hardly an accusation towards anyone. Could you explain why you feel it is?

I'm also still confused why everything has to be 70 v 70 or bigger to be considered pvp. Battlestations and City pvp don't reach those numbers at all so why do towers have to be 70 v 70?

I never said it would. But what the OP is suggesting would mean 10 vs 0. And that I don't like.

You want make towers more contested eliminate 25% of the fields at each level and fix the timers to begin with, instead of having plant orgs fill up 200 of the sites.

Actually I think way more sites should be eliminated, especially at lower levels. At tl7.. meh, no. I think the ammount is pretty well matched with server numbers right now. Might change soon though if there is no new engine or other updates in the near future.

[lainbr]

Kinda sad a professional is dropping this low, which is also funny because "tower sync" was already admitted in the last thread that got closed

The "tower sync" is not an exploit nor is it written anywhere it can't be done, but neither are other things that people abuse within the mechanics of the game. Tower syncing is just being called out since meeping was.

And as a professional wouldn't you want to see growth within AO?
Hence why people are asking for a whole remodeling of the NW problem

Sad you may be. But I'm kinda angry that people sugests hinder one profession tool useless because of NW flaws.
And the few susgestions towards NW mechanisms here focus on making the current 70 vs 70 wars into 5 vs 0 wars.

[Gatester]

Sad you may be. But I'm kinda angry that people sugests hinder one profession tool useless because of NW flaws.
And the few susgestions towards NW mechanisms here focus on making the current 70 vs 70 wars into 5 vs 0 wars.

Team instant Meep would not be useless with a delay, it would simply stop being an almost perfect defense against death and become a delayed defense against death. The anti-meep towers would force people to PVP at tower sites or run away until they are out of range of them and then instantly meep. Neither one ruins the tool.

You also have to ask why entire teams need to have the ability to be instantly evacuated to the grid. I cannot think of a reasonable answer to this question.


Also the wars are closer to 30 vs 25 now, unless you take away multi-loggers and then you are looking at about 3 teams vs 2 teams.