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Thread: Funcom , why do you penalize and nerf PVMers over PVPers issues... (NSD NERF)

  1. #1

    Talking Funcom , why do you penalize and nerf PVMers over PVPers issues... (NSD NERF)

    Ok , this has got to stop.

    Having had an MP for a few years now (Abyssgazer was born on Thu Feb 21 06:33:22 2002) , I have had occasion to use the "NSD" or Nano Shutdown nano.

    Of that usage, I would 70%+ would be on the last few bosses of the Inferno Clan Garden Key Quest to stop them from nuking Nubs who want Inf Key into Oblivion. Cos I can "keep the dragon mobs NSDed".

    Now. I don't PvP. And I realllllllllllly don't care if NSD is being used in PVP for some nefarious purpose. Because I PvM.

    Now after 12 years, you decide to completely obliterate the usefulness of NSD in PVM , which I have no doubt is in response to PvPer whining about it doing something awful in PVP.

    You have currently ingame a line of "PVP" nanos that only work on "player character" or whatever.

    Is it REALLY that hard to make NSD have whatever insane PVP nerf you want (vs player character) and not nerf it into oblivion in PVM because of PVP whining?

    I've played the game for almost 12 years now and I gotta say I am sick and tired of continual PVM nerfs because of PVP whining.

    Split the effects of nanos into PVP / PVM and feel free to nerf the living daylights out of the PVP side at will.

    Just don't wreck PVM stuffz AGAIN , because pvpers can't deal with it in PVP.
    Last edited by Deaconfrost; Jun 25th, 2013 at 21:00:26.
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  2. #2
    There is a PvP version of NSD. They're both getting durations nerfed. This is apparently vital to the balance of the game. Got to stop us horribly overpowered MPs from dominating everyone.

  3. #3
    Yay finally a nerf to the only thing mps are usefull for, maybe just remove the whole prof while you at it.....so my OP mp can finally get its deserved rest from its hard work...:'(
    Proud member of Vox Populi since 2005

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  4. #4
    /signed
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  5. #5
    When did NSD get changed? Or, is this part of the MP changes in the next patch? I don't recall seeing any announced changes to NSD.

    Aoine

  6. #6

  7. #7
    While I do agree that the change is for the worse, it is actually getting changed for PvM reasons. The reasoning is that FC will allow NSD, in the future, to affect more mobs as long as NSD cannot be chain casted and up 100% of the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercutting View Post
    Bs isn't where the real pvp happens, tis' where the pvmers' go to feel like they've pvped.
    [Zacyx]: i will perma bann u from MR

  8. #8
    Thank you, I found where NSD changes are discussed in the Balance forums ...

    This is a very bad change in my opinion, at least for PvM ... I do not see how a Professional advisor could agree with this change unless it is done at the same time as Quest Bosses are Nerfed to an equal degree.

    We depend on keeping NSD up and running continuously on the Inferno Key bosses as otherwise the nukes from the last 2 or 3 bosses would kill the whole "key" team.

    It is ridiculous to expect us to have 4 MP's in the support/key teams casting NSD in sequence in order to complete the Inferno Garden Key.

    Aoine

  9. #9
    lol qq.

    deal with it.

    The whole point of rebalancing is that you can't keep a specific buff/debuff up all the time.

    All offensive and defensive measures are regulated by CD's.

    Never played another MMO? Well, go test one out, you'll find that every action has a CD.

    if you "need" NSD up 24/7 on mobs for the inferno key, my bet is that you're trying to do inf key with too many 160's.

    Try it with a team of well equipped 210-220's.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    lol qq.

    deal with it.

    The whole point of rebalancing is that you can't keep a specific buff/debuff up all the time.

    All offensive and defensive measures are regulated by CD's.

    Never played another MMO? Well, go test one out, you'll find that every action has a CD.

    if you "need" NSD up 24/7 on mobs for the inferno key, my bet is that you're trying to do inf key with too many 160's.

    Try it with a team of well equipped 210-220's.
    Have you ever played another MMO? In other MMOs, most classes are balanced around a primary function (and balanced to begin with, not this stupid only 3 professions needed crap). What is the MP's primary function? Shutting down nanoskills. We are now getting that taken away, and a trader will be more effective. If there were actual tactics in AO's encounters, then it would make more sense. If we could actually see an enemy castbar, then I'd be perfectly fine with a reduced NSD duration. As it is, we simply guess which 15s are the "right" 15s to negate a nuke.

  11. #11
    The thing is, there is no pvp whining about NSD because it's balanced the way it is. 100% check with a 10 second recharge and 15s duration, and 160% check not instacast with 6 second recharge. The cast/recharge times coupled with appropriate NR checks and NSD removers for all the caster professions completely balance these nanos the way they are. FC just wants to nerf it because "all debuffs are being nerfed" in the rebalancing.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Have you ever played another MMO? In other MMOs, most classes are balanced around a primary function (and balanced to begin with, not this stupid only 3 professions needed crap). What is the MP's primary function? Shutting down nanoskills. We are now getting that taken away, and a trader will be more effective. If there were actual tactics in AO's encounters, then it would make more sense. If we could actually see an enemy castbar, then I'd be perfectly fine with a reduced NSD duration. As it is, we simply guess which 15s are the "right" 15s to negate a nuke.
    that's easy.

    NSD right after beast double nukes. That way you got time to heal up.

    at any other point, one single nuke isn't make or break.

    edit* I like the cast bar thing on enemies, that could be cool, but realistically that needs to be paired with a better defined enemy with a list of debuff/buffs each enemy has access too. Like it wouldn't make sense for a NT enemy to be casting TMS, and likewise you wouldn't want to see an MA enemy casting mongo. But, I'd be happy enough to see this change make it in game. If every person mob had the same endgame list of nanos that that profession shoud have (ie. imongo, best absorbs, DB ess, infernal/hellish rage or whatever, for enf mobs, and similar for all others) and monster mobs have an unknown but preset package of buffs/debuffs they could use, I think that would be very cool.
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Jun 25th, 2013 at 23:53:46.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    lol qq.

    deal with it.

    The whole point of rebalancing is that you can't keep a specific buff/debuff up all the time.

    All offensive and defensive measures are regulated by CD's.

    Never played another MMO? Well, go test one out, you'll find that every action has a CD.

    if you "need" NSD up 24/7 on mobs for the inferno key, my bet is that you're trying to do inf key with too many 160's.

    Try it with a team of well equipped 210-220's.
    I see, so you are saying no one needs an Inferno key until they are a "well equipped lvl 210 - 220" ...

    My experience with the Inferno Key quest is with at most one toon in the 160's on the "kill/key" team and the rest close to lvl 200, +/- 5 levels.

    Aoine

  14. #14
    I'm saying, just because a 195 toon can wear inf key, doesn't mean it should be handed to you without a solid fight.

    If you've got a team of 195-200's working at getting the key, you'd best have a bloody good team make up with a well built tank/doc/debuffers and DPS in order to make it happen.

    Usually when I do the key quest I have the kill team, a 220 enf to tank it, a 220 doc to heal, a 220 crat to DPS/debuff, a 220 MP to debuff/NSD, and a team of 160-220's as the kill team.

    My experience is, as I'm sure you will attest, that having more than 1 160 in the kill team can make a dangerous situation.

    My experience to date, suggests that if you aren't twinked up reasonably for DPS/AR at any level between 160-194 then you shouldn't be in the kill team unless the kill team is already well populated with stronger DPS.

    At level 195-200, if you "really" need the key, you ought to be able to hold your own and contribute significantly to the team, but you couldn't really be classified as foundation DPS.


    I don't think there's any reason to pull punches here, if there were no 220's in game, sure the first inf key wouldn't have been an easy fight, and furthermore if you had to collect all the pieces for the PB's, it sure as hell wouldn't have been a 160-200 team killing the mobs needed for the pieces of the patterns.

    So, from the perspective of real challenge, from beginning to end, including collecting the pieces, there's no possible way the key was meant to be acquired by a team of 195's. Therefore, I retract my original statement, and I suggest you have too many 195-200's in your team. And any 160's are going to be only detrimental.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    that's easy.

    NSD right after beast double nukes. That way you got time to heal up.
    NSD doesn't affect Beast. Which ties directly into this. We are getting rebalance changes to NSD, apparently without the changes making NSD affect more mobs.
    Last edited by Esssch; Jun 26th, 2013 at 01:36:57.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    NSD doesn't affect Beast. Which ties directly into this. We are getting rebalance changes to NSD, apparently without the changes making NSD affect more mobs.
    With this new change to NSD, that will eventually change. Which is why NSD was changed. We will eventually be able to land NSD on bosses like the Beast, but not 100% because that would be too powerful. The devs are going to allow NSD to affect more bosses as long as it isn't always up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undercutting View Post
    Bs isn't where the real pvp happens, tis' where the pvmers' go to feel like they've pvped.
    [Zacyx]: i will perma bann u from MR

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingengi View Post
    With this new change to NSD, that will eventually change. Which is why NSD was changed. We will eventually be able to land NSD on bosses like the Beast, but not 100% because that would be too powerful. The devs are going to allow NSD to affect more bosses as long as it isn't always up.
    "Eventually"

    k, I'm super excited for this change. I'm sure it'll all be worth it when that change does finally happen in another 5 years. Until then, it's a nerf, to the one profession that least needs a nerf.

  18. #18
    Re: McKnuckle & Liwa's conversation - I actually think a team in the level range Liwa mentions is closer to the intended level range. Most people I know bring 220s too, by which point you don't even need an MP for NSD. It's easy and monotonous. Wouldn't it be cool if we could continue to tackle it a lot sooner?

    The changes would push up the level range at which this content can be done. And to be honest I'm getting really tired of seeing us being nudged towards focusing on TL7. This is one of the few games where other level ranges can actually be played for fun.
    :E

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahndracorvid View Post
    Re: McKnuckle & Liwa's conversation - I actually think a team in the level range Liwa mentions is closer to the intended level range. Most people I know bring 220s too, by which point you don't even need an MP for NSD. It's easy and monotonous. Wouldn't it be cool if we could continue to tackle it a lot sooner?

    The changes would push up the level range at which this content can be done. And to be honest I'm getting really tired of seeing us being nudged towards focusing on TL7. This is one of the few games where other level ranges can actually be played for fun.
    Alright, I want to see a team of 200's farm the dynas to get the PBs too.
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    Idiots are just like slinkies. It makes you smile when you push them down a flight of stairs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Undercutting View Post
    Bs isn't where the real pvp happens, tis' where the pvmers' go to feel like they've pvped.
    [Zacyx]: i will perma bann u from MR

  20. #20
    Why wouldn't that be possible?
    :E

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