Monthly Development Update – 31st July, 2013

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Ohhh I loved master of orion.

So oldschool. I still have the CD for that game but it runs like crap on my computer. I think it was made for a 286 era system.

[Aiken]

Just to clarify, i'm saying to compare the PRICING of other games. Please don't put words into my mouth when the meaning was pretty clear already. You have a nasty habit of doing that on forums Psikie.

[Psikie]

Just to clarify I didn't put words into your mouth, when you stated "bullsh1t being spouted about meals" I took that as being directed toward me, as I was the initial poster that compared AO pricing to dinner and a movie. Which I was more than clear in stating that was MY reasoning and personal choice for paying for AO.

So that was my response to your quote. You think meals comparisons are BS I think other game pricing comparisons are BS.

[Armus]

Let's carry that example further.
It even works this way with a multinational corp like Coca-cola.

You are in brazil, you pay $0.80 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.
You are in USA, you pay $1.50 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.
You are in UK, you pay $2.50 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.
You are in Australia, you pay $4.50 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.

All made by the same multinational company, which negotiates global rates at a very competitive wholesale cost, and logistics are trivial ie- ALMOST like digital distribution of a video game over the internet.

If I cannot afford Coca-cola, I can do without, and drink water. I don't write to Coca-cola or local politician and tell them we are going on a ragequit bender because we don't like the cost. If I can afford it, then it is a choice. Consumer Choice.

For me, when I cannot afford something, it usually means that I am overspending or living beyond my means. That's when credit come into play, and then plebs have the mistaken illusion that they can afford the luxury of xyz, when they really can't, and then financial system and society breaks down as a consequence.

If you use an american cc you pay the "american" price for AO wherever you are on the globe, while the european gets the european price if he uses his european card. So your analogy is flawed.

As for the cost of distribution being "almost" like digital in different countries for a beverage like coke that is produced in different plants all over the world using different suppliers and under different conditions, different costs of labour and different costs of raw materials, enery, different regulations etc.. That's completely flawed too. The cost of uploading the ao client and having someone play is the same for FC whether they are in Germany or in Aus, pretty much no variables there, while a product such as coke has many variables.

FC is charging euros more simply because they can. There is no other reason behind it.

[Armus]

Hey, I'm in aus too.

And I can confirm the $4.50 cokes.

I can also confirm that the stroller/pram we bought a year ago was $400 more in Australia than US (we bought in USA and shipped over, saving us over $300).

I can also confirm that toothpaste is more expensive in Australia (roughly 50% more at least, and even upwards of 300% more in some cases, than most supermarkets/bulk chains in Canada/US).

I can also confirm that rent is roughly the same in Brisbane and Vancouver in the nicer neighborhoods of each city.

The last thing that drives me a bit nuts but I can also confirm is that the price of computers in Australia are about 50% to 150% the price of a similar machine in Canada/US.

I am convinced that pricing of all sorts of stuff is just different and there isn't much I can do about it.

But, what I can do is say hey fellow Aussie, want to hang in game? I got so few peeps to play with so I'm always looking for more... (see sig)

Grats, you established that Aus is an expensive country to live in. So how come AO is so cheap in Aus? Ah yes, because AO is not affected by the high cost of labour or the high cost of distribution or the relative small number of ppl living in a very large area.

So, again, why do we pay more? It's not because the cost of distribution is higher, it's not because the cost of labour that may affect the prices of other goods and services. So.. what exactly is the reason?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Grats, you established that Aus is an expensive country to live in. So how come AO is so cheap in Aus? Ah yes, because AO is not affected by the high cost of labour or the high cost of distribution or the relative small number of ppl living in a very large area.

So, again, why do we pay more? It's not because the cost of distribution is higher, it's not because the cost of labour that may affect the prices of other goods and services. So.. what exactly is the reason?

No idea!

But I think Mastura's explanation is as least somewhat descriptive.

I'm willing to bet the real answer is, though: because FC can do it, they do it.


I'll look around and see what the internet thinks the answer is, not the most reliable, but sometimes gives an idea.

[Psikie]

If you use an american cc you pay the "american" price for AO wherever you are on the globe, while the european gets the european price if he uses his european card. So your analogy is flawed.

Actually it is the address your card is registered to, not because the bank issued the card in America. Wells Fargo and Chase have banks around the globe and if I banked with them and moved my mailing address from US to Germany, then I would get charged Germany pricing. (when I was in the military and stationed in Germany I found this out the hard way)

[Esssch]

@Psikie, Esssch: Why do you keep repeating it's out choice not to pay? You think we don't know that? Why do you put us into position of being "bad" for pointing out the obvious? If you don't think this is an issue, fine. But maybe you should try to see futher than on tip of your nose. As already stated if subscribtion doesn't undergo some serious changes (among other things) then AO will keep losing more and more subscribers. It simply doesn't matter if it costs about the same as dinner in restaurant. Most ppl just don't care. And if it gets to the point where amount of subscribers is so low it's no longer sustainable it will be loss for everyone not just Europeans or those who refuse to pay.

Oh, I don't mind that it was brought up. The first time, many years ago. I do mind that it's been brought up twice a day since, though. Your words aren't working, talk with your wallet. There's a spot when you cancel your account to explain why. I'm sure if enough people canceled and cited that it costs more in Euros, changes would happen pretty quick.

Or I suppose you can keep posting here. It's always nice to vent, even if it won't get results.

[cybertron]

No idea!

But I think Mastura's explanation is as least somewhat descriptive.

I'm willing to bet the real answer is, though: because FC can do it, they do it.


I'll look around and see what the internet thinks the answer is, not the most reliable, but sometimes gives an idea.

Another aussie here. As far as i can tell, vendors charge however much the market will bear(eg. High price of luxury cars in australia. As long as everyone keeps paying those prices, the sellers won't drop the price). Same kinda thing applies here, FC will charge whatever if people continue to pay it

Also the currency which FC charges you with, i don't think is related to the card. When i moved back to australia from London, i was paying for my FC sub using my uk issued credit card and i was charged in USD. Ive also paid using paypal(which for me is still uk based) and that charged me in usd too. So if you want to get charged in usd, change your acc details so that your address is in US or somewhere else usd based, and just pay for it using whatever card/paypal you have. Its not like they need your correct physical mailing address to send you anything. That's if they haven't changed their billing system recently.

[Armus]

Oh, I don't mind that it was brought up. The first time, many years ago. I do mind that it's been brought up twice a day since, though. Your words aren't working, talk with your wallet. There's a spot when you cancel your account to explain why. I'm sure if enough people canceled and cited that it costs more in Euros, changes would happen pretty quick.

Or I suppose you can keep posting here. It's always nice to vent, even if it won't get results.

You do realize that yourself, along with everyone else who makes that same "stop paying if you're not happy" argument will also have to do the same in the future. In other words, if you wish to maintain any sort of intelkectual integrity and honesty, you can't make any complaint or any kind of suggestion. Instead you will be forced to take your own advice and stop paying/playing.

It seems quite apparent that you don't understand that a forum is a place where discussion is intended to happen.

[Mastura]

Possibly not this thread though, Armus. Game Suggestions maybe. Once again, I wish there was a forum for me to complain about high cost of luxury items like coca-cola and mercedez benz or even Lego, in Australia. Unfortunately, I live in the real world. Forums for stating complaints with regards to cost like you are saying, do not exist, for any other product. As someone said earlier, there is an option when you cancel to select 'costs too much' etc.

If we really wanted to have pro-consumer forum threads, why don't we set a long and arduous discussion with Armus and the rest of the kind folks on this unnecessary thread elsewhere and lets 'haggle the price of in-game armor such as Combined Commando' .. now that would be realistic at least.

Cheers

[Brampfine]

btw LEGO countdown 8 Hours left
http://www.funcom.com/


ps.
a 0,5 liter Coke cost here at MC 2,50€

[MachSchau]

btw LEGO countdown 8 Hours left
http://www.funcom.com/


ps.
a 0,5 liter Coke cost here at MC 2,50€

But I am not over 13....

[fakiiri]

Let's carry that example further.
It even works this way with a multinational corp like Coca-cola.

You are in brazil, you pay $0.80 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.
You are in USA, you pay $1.50 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.
You are in UK, you pay $2.50 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.
You are in Australia, you pay $4.50 for 1.25 litre bottle of Coca-cola.

All made by the same multinational company, which negotiates global rates at a very competitive wholesale cost, and logistics are trivial ie- ALMOST like digital distribution of a video game over the internet.

If I cannot afford Coca-cola, I can do without, and drink water. I don't write to Coca-cola or local politician and tell them we are going on a ragequit bender because we don't like the cost. If I can afford it, then it is a choice. Consumer Choice.

For me, when I cannot afford something, it usually means that I am overspending or living beyond my means. That's when credit come into play, and then plebs have the mistaken illusion that they can afford the luxury of xyz, when they really can't, and then financial system and society breaks down as a consequence.

Good job using product that is being TAXED differently as example.

Not to mention recycling costs for bottles..

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Good job using product that is being TAXED differently as example.

Not to mention recycling costs for bottles..

recycling for this type of thing is only in SA, as opposed to Australia in general. Aussies got some whack ass crap when it comes to the environment. If you want to know more, just google recycling in Australia. It's a horrible story. Coming from Canada, it almost made me cry I was so annoyed.

Even still, the difference in recycling costs is at most 10 cents. Hardly enough to make up the massively different margin.

Again, same with taxes. at most, you're looking at about a 20% difference in taxation.

The vast majority of difference comes from some sort of market analysis and base pricing regime where a standardized price sort of guarantees a minimum markup on a premium product to ensure X profit margin.

I can't confirm this, but I have a hunch it has to do with the cost of production, cost of logistics, import costs etc.

But, probably more to the point is that none of these things matter in the context of the distribution of digital rights, or subscription fees. All of the things I've just mentioned have a tangible value that cannot be ignored. Digital rights, on the other hand have none of those and therefore the argument doesn't make sense.

Frankly, the only thing I can see as being the determinant on price is corporate tax law, and, to a much lesser extent, marketing (if indeed any marketing budget was spent on this game in either of EU or not EU).

[Dumonde]

Cookiez anyone ?

[Wakizaka]

So how come AO is so cheap in Aus?

So.. what exactly is the reason?

FC set it up that UK was GBP, Eurozone was Euro, and the rest of the world payed USD, as it was convenient.

You'll notice it's different for TSW, where they set it so that the US pays USD, UK pays GBP, and everywhere else pays Euros. When I queried that with TSW staff, they just told me that that's how their billing regions were created and there is unfortunately nothing they could do about it. It's actually what stopped me from buying the Grandmaster Pack for TSW pre-launch, as the total difference between paying the USD & Euro price for me was about 750ZAR.

[Scotty]

I am sorry if my responses gave you the impression I think you or anyone is "bad" for complaining. That was not my intention. My statements are purely from a self perspective that the current cost of AO is acceptable to me because comparitively it costs me more money to go out 1 night as opposed to the cost of of 1 month worth of AO playing time.

Fairness is not something I can answer honestly because it is subjective to the individual. I think my current price is fair to me based on what I make and what I am willing to pay. If I made 200k per year I might feel that a $50.00 a month subscription price is fair for something I wanted or enjoyed doing.

Exactly, current cost of AO is acceptable from you perspective. There are certainly more people who think the same, it could be me as well. However that wouldn't change a thing - AO is overpriced compared to other products and that's what matters to general customer.

I pay $12.50 per week for 1 hour of squash.

Last week, I restrung my racket, cost me 52$

Two months ago, I bought new shoes, cost me $180

I bougth pink Ferrari last week for 300.000$. That must make AO pricing more ok... not. You also don't go to the shoes store and think "These shoes are too expensive because AO is cheaper". Simply put: compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

It even works this way with a multinational corp like Coca-cola.

It does not. Different kind of product, different set of rules. Cola is physical product that needs to be produced, transported, declared, distributed to vendors, different kind of taxes may apply as well. That all adds to the final cost of products (none of which AO has to deal with, appart from VAT) thus Cola is priced differently in different countries. It also competes against Pepsi and similar products, not against AO. If Pepsi is cheaper, Cola distributors or vendors will adjust the price.

[Esssch]

You do realize that yourself, along with everyone else who makes that same "stop paying if you're not happy" argument will also have to do the same in the future. In other words, if you wish to maintain any sort of intelkectual integrity and honesty, you can't make any complaint or any kind of suggestion. Instead you will be forced to take your own advice and stop paying/playing.

It seems quite apparent that you don't understand that a forum is a place where discussion is intended to happen.

Man, you're dense. The price difference has been brought up multiple times over the past several years. Nothing has changed. You have 2 options now: Keep paying and quit your whining, or show FC that you're serious and cancel your account.

As for your straw-man argument, I have canceled when I was no longer happy, then I came back when I wanted to play again. I sure didn't expect any actual changes from posting here. You've had 12 years to realize FC doesn't care about AO or it's players unless you talk with your wallet. It's time to nut up or shut up.

[ultion]

I don't know about dinner, movies, or the price of AO on the moon, but stop drinking Coke already. That crap is poison.