Monthly Development Update - 1st November 2013

[Gimpynoob]

Yea LOL, DOTA 2, Guild Wars 2, Path of exile they are all such a fail games.

And even if your logic is correct then AO should be free, cause AO atm is definition of fail game.

No updates, constant delays, dungeons and game mechanic outdated, player base of ehmm 1000 players ?

Don't get me wrong, for me there is no game like AO. I've been playing it for over 7 years now and it will always be my love. But today there are indie devs that do more for their games then FC for AO. Also P2P games with 15$ subs means u get bunch of content in patches, new items, dungeons, pvp mods etc and what do we get for paying 15$/Euro for AO? Servers running and "soon" every month?

DOTA2 is not an MMO and GW2 is not "free to play", dunno what path of exile is. And AO should not be F2P2W it should be fixed.

[Esssch]

DOTA2 is not an MMO and GW2 is not "free to play", dunno what path of exile is. And AO should not be F2P2W it should be fixed.

Path of Exile is a Diablo-clone. So really the only MMO in his list is Guild Wars 2, and as you said, it isn't free to play.

[doctorgore]

FC still can't comprehend what a combo sub is....
Here FC let me make it easy for you to understand.

The sub fee includes all access to AOC, AO and TSW. Charge $20-25.

[Boozee098]

DOTA2 is not an MMO and GW2 is not "free to play", dunno what path of exile is. And AO should not be F2P2W it should be fixed.

I agreed with most of what you wrote, but Path of Exile is definitely a valid exception to the rule.

It really does prove the point that is being made here about what your dollars will buy you elsewhere.

I would say a more fair statement would be "Up until 2013 Free-to-play was an indicator of a failed game". Because you are absolutely right, historically that has been how it is used.

Star Wars: TOR is really one of the best examples of that. The game came out and was immediately less successful that expected. After my free 30 days I cancelled my subscription. These cancellations became typical, and adopting the free-to-play model was a last ditch effort.

Path of exile is a very different case though. For starters, the game stayed in open beta for over 6 months, yet all features were available to all players. The only items available for purchase were and still are cosmetic.

Open betas are to resolve stability issues. PoE actually took the time to do that properly.

I'm going to call that an industry first.

What you should know is that the game was built by a small group of indie developers in New Zealand on a shoestring budget they accomplished by crowdfunding initial development resources through a kickstarter-esque campaign where they sold the rights to designing one unique item in the game for $1,000. (You are not given the item, and you work with a lead designer...balance is their call).

They raised over $300k with this initiative.

For example, the programmer who started Minecraft bought one of the $1,000 spots and designed a bow.

All the shop items are "skins" which you can apply to items and effects in game to change them cosmetically.

The lead guy behind the project, Chris Wilson, was ADAMANT about his hatred of pay-to-win and OPEN in his criticism of the features that caused Diablo 3 to be a failure.

PoE has been called the true successor to Diablo 2. Having played both PoE and D2 I can tell you that this is a pretty accurate statement.

I would also contend that PoE is in fact an MMORPG, and calling it otherwise is false.

Yes, it is true that certain areas are limited in how many players can be there at a given time. ( I believe in a PVP area it's 16 players, but that has scaled up to 64 in at least 1 instance )

In that regard, the instancing gives it less of an MMO feel certainly. How is that any different than the backyards in AO?

I recently asked a friend to try AO and we created characters to do the tutorial island. Sure enough we wound up in different instances. Does this make AO any less of an MMORPG? No.

- - - -

Here is the important thing, and the point I'm trying to get across.

I played Path of Exile for 6 months and it was a very good game.

During that time lag and bugs improved tremendously. Nerfs were VERY infrequent, and for the most part I saw gameplay improve drastically.

As it was a BETA I never paid a single dollar to play. Turns out, the game never cost 1 cent, and it never will. ( I belive the game is no longer in beta...I'm certain it's still free ).

This model was a gesture of good faith to players. The developers basically said "Hey here's this cool game, we hope you like it, and if you do, throw us 20 bucks".

The week before I left the game I bought $75 worth of tokens in the store. I used them on the random cosmetic stuff that was offered...largely i didn't use any of it...I'm not into that. I spent the $75 bucks because that's how much enjoyment I felt I got out of the game at that point.

Ironically, it works out nicely to $12.50 a month for the game. (more on that at the end)

The next week a crippling bug was introduced in a patch that caused my highest level character to die ( in this game you cannot die or you lose your character in "Hardcore" mode ) .

I had a screenshot of it happening, and it happened live on the stream of a very prominent gamer in the community. It was a well known issue.

They emergency patched the game within 15 minutes.

Unfortunately they did not restore my character, because that is not their policy.

I decided to take a break from the game and that ended up being permanent.

I later wrote a short recap of my experiences on reddit. Chris Wilson, the lead developer, replied to my thread and offered a meaningful statement. He restated their policy on character restoration, and then he offered his philisophical justification for why he set that policy.

THEN HE APOLOGIZED TO ME. He apologized for the bug that ultimately caused me to lose interest in playing. He accepted full credit for it, and he hoped that I would take his quick patching of the issue as a gesture of good will.

Sure enough I did.

And that's why I'm writing on another forum about a FREE game that has literally turned the entire industry on its head.

And here is what I have to say to you all.

AO COULD do the same thing, but they WON'T. I think from everything I've read here it is obvious that everyone knows that already.

From my perspective the forum is just kind of a "living funeral" for a game that could have been great, and had perhaps the player commitment to be great, but lacked development resources to do so.

And that is really sad when you figure what Chris Wilson and his team of 13 or so people did with $300,000 dollars. My rough estimate, and I'm not the expert, is that AO has to be making at least that every 1 - 3 months on subscriptions alone or it would simply be shuttered.

Sorry to come out all humdrum-and-glum on my first post, but frankly, I tried to re-kindle the romance I had with this game once long ago, and it was a miserable failure.

I played froob a few weeks, bought the $20 account upgrade, and logged in this morning to cancel my subscription before they charged my CC.

If Funcom ever really asked themselves...hey, is this really the best we can do?

Is that our legacy? Dudes coming back around for a quick throw like when they used to plug their Sega genesis back in for a week every couple of years and shuffle through some old cartridges?

I think if they asked themselves some hard hitting questions this game has the potential to really be great and leave a legacy for itself.

But for today, everything is just being phoned in.

Video game development is no different than postal workers in a sorting facility.

Some people REALLY like their job and they're good at it, even when the work sucks.

Some people just want to sort packages.

And some people just make excuses.

All I'm really saying is look at the work of developers like Chris Wilson who REALLY love what they do.

When was the last time the guy who started this thread replied to one of your posts?

[MyGift]

Long post but worth reading

+1 Boozee098

P.S.

@ Gimpynoob u never said MMO specific, therefor my statement stands.

[hokutonoken]

i prefer my bronto steaks to not be too "rarity"....more medium well done with a touch of pink in middle ^_=

[Mastablasta]

What I'd like to know is if the changes to the animation will carry over to the old engine and possibly offer performance increases?

[Teknologist]

Long post but worth reading

+1 Boozee098

P.S.

@ Gimpynoob u never said MMO specific, therefor my statement stands.

+1 Boozee098

[Traderjill]

Boozee098.. your post hit the nail on the head. But, like so many other posts that accurately portray the state of the game and call things like they are.. it'll get ignored. Wish you well in whatever games you play in the future. I actually went and installed Path of Exile after reading your post.. lost me in the first min after character creation because there's no game good enough to get me to deal with 'click the ground to move' at this point. In that instance, I am set in my ways regarding gaming

[Boozee098]

Thanks for the positive comments.

I should clarify, I started a couple Froob accounts.

I had rushed into upgrading and didn't realize I couldn't go back to a free account.

I just decided for my playtime / playstyle the free option would fit better right now.

I am still going to give the game a chance.

For what it's worth, and I doubt this is an uncommon sentiment here, the unique lore is really enthralling.

For all intents and purposes the quality of the game itself is incredible.

I take issue personally with the approach that has been taken by management.

In my job, if my department had the kind of turnover you guys have seen here in FC staff, it would be too difficult to ignore the simple fact that something was seriously wrong.

I don't doubt that FC by now has acknowledged that fact.

It's just sort of tragic that their "hit the ground running" response was to send out Joel Bylos (I am assuming the person posting this is the same Joel from TSW) and smooth things over with a monthly "from the devs" thread.

I really don't think PoE is half the game AO is...although it is sort of ironic that they are 2 of the remaining games where you have FULL FREEDOM to design every component of your character, AND that means if you mess something up....well, you get a messed up character.

But the depth, the math, the complexity. No game really parallels AO in that. Actually City of Heroes is another contender, but obviously it was shut down.

I was merely illustrating though that AO is a great game with bad dev support.

That mixture is terribly painful to watch.

For the most part, as a player, you just work around the bugs. You avoid the things you know are broken. You work with the things that do work.

And I don't even know that this is such a bad thing. Because it is a status quo in the game that has been manageable for a long time.

- - - -

There are 2 things about the above line that I want to point out though.

1) I think it is incumbent upon FC to ACKNOWLEDGE that is the sacrifice the players make in order to enjoy their game. Sacrifices necessary due to inherent flaws in the software.

2) I think it is essential that FC make it known that they are APOLOGETIC, and that means they are committed to taking action.


Here is the best example I can give.

In 2010 a player made a post about using the 2560 x 1440 native resolution of his monitor to play the game.

Back then this was an uncommon resolution. Today it is very common. I have 2 PCs that use this resolution. One of the monitors was actually only a $399 Korean model. For perspective, top end monitors run upwards of $1,700.

Here is Means' response:

Means
Past GD

Join Date: May 2004
Funcom employee

Interesting problem. The engine guys say it should be gone with the new engine. Catch you next time I guess

- - - -

Here's the thing. Means actually seems to be one of the "good guys" from everything I've read. And I believe it. I'm not citing this to bash anyone.

I'm just telling you that this violates both RULE ONE and RULE TWO that I listed above, and both are very important in customer service.

The failure to acknowledge the shortcomings of the game and the sacrifice players must make in order to play is subtle and easy to miss...but it's there.

"New engine will fix everything, don't worry". That is the equivalent of saying, "I refuse to acknowledge your current problem utilizing existing hardware with the current software many are paying for, because your concern will not be valid in the near future".

What near future?

It's 2 months until 2014 and I still can't use my 2560x1440 monitor to play this game.

And the reason is quite simple. The graphics rendering buffer was originally programmed with a limitation of 2048x2048 pixels.

The game will crash if you try to exceed that threshold.

Would it take time to fix it? Yes.

Should we keep pretending it is completely impossible? If it were my company, no.

And let me tell you why.

I don't know how many people here know about Final Fantasy XI ... it is an older game. In fact, I'd wager it came out within 6 months of AO.

It is also a pretty underrated title, and experienced the same issues with a completely overheated launch followed quickly by a drastic dropoff in subscribership.

The stories are both similar. When you develop a AAA title you never expect to spend the majority of its lifetime just trying to fight back to a fraction of the subscribers you had a launch.

But that is life.

So when Mr. Matsui became the producer of the game in 2013 (going off memory) he had a tall order to fill.

I have played this game on and off about 6 years. There were always little things that bothered me that no one seemed to care about.

Let me give you a relevant AO example. You ever watch the damage numbers in AO pop off the mobs?

You ever wonder why they look so damn blurry? Well FFXI had the same thing going. Also player names and guild titles. Same thing.

One day after a patch I logged into FFXI and names were crystal clear. A couple of weeks later I logged in and so were the numbers.

As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Matsui just took all the little stuff that bothered people, and he made it a 1 month project for different members of his team.

And it took a while, but slowly the changes started to roll in. And one day you woke up and you were playing a much better game.

The first step of this is RULE ONE...acknowledging the flaws in your product, and then addressing them one at a time.

- - - -

But the important part is not just what Matsui did in regards to rule one. It's rule two.

And this is what I want to stress.

He came out and apologized. In fact, that guy has apologized for more things than anyone I've ever seen.

His job is to basically bend over and allow people to whip him.

And he is constantly maligned in the forums.

He is a disliked individual.

But the important thing is that he has borne that yolk. And he has slowly made that game better.

And he has returned subscribership.

This is an example of a BAD game. Really a HORRIBLE failure by critical standards.

But what a halfway decent dev team can accomplish.

Every promise Matsui has made he has delivered on.

And it took at most 6 months - 1 year in order to do it.

- - - -

I will leave you all with this for today:

Here is a fun fact. The Atrox is a very popular choice in AO.

But this obviously wasn't always the case.

At launch I played an Atrox enforcer. It was pretty fun, and beast.

But something always bothered me. In the "Thin" and "Medium" atrox models there is a GIANT GREEN TRIANGLE inside the head.

It is much easier to see when the model is transparent, and the "Heavy" model doesn't have it.

But flip through some faces in the character creator and you'll see that weird LIME GREEN polygon.

I checked to see if it was still there my first day back (this time around).

It's still there.

It still reminds me that glitches from the very first day of the beta are still here in the final.

And my point is, that's probably a 1 day project.

4 hours even. Get it done before lunch.

I promise you that the day the servers shut down on this game that polygon will still be there.

Because what the players of this game are owed is an apology.

And instead what they get is an excuse.

[Traderjill]

1) i think it is incumbent upon fc to acknowledge that is the sacrifice the players make in order to enjoy their game. Sacrifices necessary due to inherent flaws in the software.

2) i think it is essential that fc make it known that they are apologetic, and that means they are committed to taking action.

bingo bingo bingo! In an earlier post I mentioned how put off I was by the changes they made to beast reflects. This may seem like a small thing to be annoyed by but it really ruined my game experience. I always loved doing Pande, and even when I didn't need anything from the zone.. had fun running raids with people/for people.. it was just a zone I liked to play in and one of the ways I felt I could help the community.

I came back, beast was just obnoxious to kill 80% of the time due to the reflect shield. There was no mention anywhere of any change.. no acknowledgement that the problem was even recognized/existed. While saying "i'm sorry" doesn't fix everything, it goes a long way in promoting a human connection between devs and players. I remember getting annoyed over something in game and writing a long angry rant about Funcom's failure to communicate. Michi came to the thread and offered his sincerest apologies and even though my complaint was legit.. I actually felt bad about being so harsh. That's what happens when a company communicates.. you calm down the anger/frustration/annoyance and your players will be more likely to tolerate and endure situations knowing that you're legitimately apologetic AND working to resolve the issue.

This is the only game I play where there isn't a known bugs list someplace. I'm not talking about 'known exploits' but just a running bugs list so people aren't banging their head against a wall when something isn't working.

[Kauh]

{quoted post removed}

+1000 Boozee098

Great read and understanding of what is going on here. I only hope some developers can respond to this -- but probably will not.

[Thecrow91]

Yikes!
Edit: Quit copying WoW. If we all wanted to play WoW, we would be doing so...I highly doubt by copying other games you'll be able to do anything better than they already have...How about sticking to the things that made AO unique & stop diluting our wonderful game as you have been doing so for the last few years with these 'changes for the new players'.
Subscription rates & player activity over these last few years should show even you guys how effective things have been....

"What's that?
The whole in-game store, copying Blizzard to make AO more like WoW, and failing to keep promises isn't working for you?
Don't worry, we will put some development time into modeling a new phasefront for you to spend real money on.

[Reacon]

Thanks for the positive comments.

I should clarify, I started a couple Froob accounts.

I had rushed into upgrading and didn't realize I couldn't go back to a free account.

I just decided for my playtime / playstyle the free option would fit better right now.

...

...

...

Hey man, you really need to learn how paragraphs work. However, I threw Funcom a fiver just to come on here and tell you how much I agree with what your brick wall of a post states. I'd also like to take it in a different direction now that I'm here.


I played for three years back in the day, and many months more with occasional returns. I remember the very first announcement when Funcom had begun development on the Ogre engine, and how thrilled I was when the first teaser, "Still Alive," was released to the public. Waiting in suspense every week for Means to bring us new heads, maybe screenshots if we were lucky. I've read every thread in the Community Corner since the advent of Friday With Means.

And something about me still desperately wants to see my childhood come back to life, for every month I check back to see when I'll have to rouse my friends to embark on an adventure. But instead I am disappointed with progress so slow that it threatens to leave the game a far cry from its original vision, and there will be no returning of the glory days. Merely a few new players for a few more years.

There is a lot I disagree with, but I would like to touch on the serious issue of veteran servicing and how it is essentially an unwitting acceptance of defeat. By shifting focus from new to old players, you can only decline in population, albeit slowly. This is deeper than simply fixing the NPE (which, might I remind you all, is a mess because vets thought it was too long).

Many old MMO's past their prime suffer from veteran servicing (easy example: WoW). Diluting their original game to make it easier for veteran players to breeze through it to endgame. This tactic is reliable for maintaining longevity and keeping players, but let's face it: Most play video games for a system of challenge and reward, delayed gratification. If we destroy the distraction of challenge and leave only a game of patience, then what we're left with is boredom. And boredom is absolutely not what you want to showcase to potentially paying consumers. The perception is skewed by the vocal veterans lobbying to make the levelling content easier, since they have long since become bored with levelling anyway.

Two easily picked cherries: cities becoming instanced and the global market becoming an Auction House. By making aliumz and equipment more accessible, we end up cutting out a major part of the novelty and progression. The novelty of having persistent cities, and the progression within the social system to an organisation that owns a city. The GMS was a novelty for the first dozen times and an encumbrance for the rest, but that brings us to a conclusion that puts it in the category of "necessary evil."

If we dilute the GMS, player owned cities, and get rid of Notum Wars, what are we left with? We are left with little reason to explore Rubi Ka and immerse ourselves with the sense of player agency conveyed by the persistent battle. And AO therefore becomes uninspired.

What would Anarchy Online be if it was no longer unique? We would be left with nothing to set AO apart from the sea of games mechanically superior but lacking in vision, and AO would become mediocre.


I hope that was a pretty coherent and concise summary of my thoughts on the direction AO is moving to.

[Leetlover]

{removed by Anarrina: exact quote of entire post in excessive font size}

I agree.

[Leetlover]

By making aliumz and equipment more accessible, we end up cutting out a major part of the novelty and progression.

imo, power should be accessiable easier for newcomers so we can do teamplay. I think many play mmo games (instead of singleplayergames) to play with others. Killing a thousand hacker uri's alone isn't my idea of MMO-fun.

So I party agree.

Aliens should probably only be accessiable via teamplay on a lockdown.

[Mastura]

TL;DR
Cool story(ies) bro
Too many pitchforks; bla bla bla

Too many assumptions are made by player base assuming FC or dev staff do this or have that. It's mostly all hearsay and rumour. In AO, the pitchforks are high maintenance.

[Anarrina]

While we appreciate all of the enthusiasm for Boozee's posts, it is completely unnecessary to repeatedly quote the entire post - especially since it is quite lengthy. Please confine your quoting to sections you are specifically responding to, or state you agree without quoting the entire post, especially not with excessive font sizes. Thanks.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think the reason they are quoting his post in rly big font is because they are hoping the devs will see it.

Sort of like:

hmm if I smash their whole forums with a giant awesome idea, maybe they'll figure out how awesome it is and make the awesome idea because they just got hit with the giant awesome idea in the eye.

[Mastura]

BTW *not* specifically directed at you Noobas, or anyone else for that matter
Any resemblance to real life people is purely coincidental and unintentional, bla bla.

Heh.. what exactly was the idea? I think I missed it. I hear a lot of whining, a lot of cool stories, and the sound of many pitchforks making 'woosh' noises as they flail wildly in the air; ->some<- succinct criticisms, mostly from the experienced posters that actually know waht they are unhappy with, but I don't think I saw in the last dozen posts a giant awesome idea, let alone an awesome idea, let alone an 'idea' as in a specific suggestion. Possibly because the Game Suggestions forum is over there ...

<------------------

If the awesome idea is an apology, then here you go, from one player to another, "sorry" on behalf of FC (virtual hug), hope that will make you feel warm and fuzzy soon and we can move on. However, I'm not on some altruistic crusade against gamer injustice and will not be joining the angry town mob anytime soon. Besides, I've seen all sorts of FC staff apologise many many times already in the last decade.

I'm generally happy with the efforts of FC and everything AO, and appreciate their wisdom and experience, the pace, the challenges, the evolution; everything - otherwise I wouldn't still be here. I think if they need money to bump up the output of a team there may be reasons why they aren't doing so, but we are not privy to those reasons nor should we speculate or make it up.

I think a lot of players (as I said before few posts ago and TJ asked me what I meant) actually owe FC and the great team/s over the years an apology, an apology for whining miserably all the time, an apology for doing naughty stuff in the game that was unintended, an apology for constantly demanding they get heard in the forums, every time they post.

If the awesome idea is that they read our suggestions on the suggestions forum, perhaps we should contribute ways on how we would like them to acknowledge they've viewed them. Admittedly you cannot expect FC to personally respond to every single post, as that would also be a huge waste of resources.

There are other more constructive suggestions and/or criticisms I've seen specifically aimed at addressing this like adding a 'like/dislike' counter/button on posts so staff can see the more important ones, likewise, maybe a blue 'eye' icon with a counter on posts to show how many FC staff have seen it for the attention-seekers, dunno...

Also I encourage players to participate on the test server, and submit bug reports and feedback in those said forums, as they will get looked at sooner or later. I say, drop those pitchforks and pick up the shovel.

It's easy.

P.S. the colour-coded item rarity hint is great. Here is one example of where I saw it suggested by Windgaerd no less (the guy who founded AO Universe) although he called it 'Salvage', and wanted it to be based on value (which would make it subjective to markets) and FC's implementation is far more user-friendly. http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=602042