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Thread: Doctors

  1. #1

    Doctors

    So ubt has been capped at 3s cast time, malpractice requires atleast one dot to be running(and only does the same damage as before if 3 dots are running on target) and has been capped at 3s cast time...


    Do I get to kill anyone now? Assuming everything lands first time(lol), I get ubt, 3 dots casted, and i'm at 22ish seconds of malp time left. with a 4s lockout on the nuke line, I'm looking at maybe 3 malps before I have to recast dots. I understand some people thought docs were unkillable, but our kill power was pretty bad already unless we were mr/AS monkeys. Why wasn't heal efficiency nerfed to make pvm harder and make docs less immortal? Why nerf my ability to kill a shade, or a soldier, or an enforcer? Assuming i survive those alphas at that point anyways...

  2. #2
    Ya, seriously Funcom.

    Doctors are the most dangerous killer profession. Absolutely. Our dealt damage is on top of all statistics, even Shade+Enf+Sold together can not reach us.

    Nerfing the most worst damage-dealing profession is just retarded. Almost everything from every profession could be nerfed (and would make sense in a way), but not reducing the doctors ability to kill someone. This is not making any sense.
    ..:: 220|30|70|e|::.. Dumonde
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    ..:: 220|30|70|e|::.. Zidane
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    .. :: Punk :: ..

  3. #3
    UBT has a 2.5s cast cap.

    Malpractice has a 2s cast cap. It can now be used against monsters. It does a little less nuke damage with one DoT running than the first nuke in its old incarnation. It does quite a bit more nuke damage if you have all three DoT's running, than if you had cast the nuke enough times with the old version to get max damage. (average of 4500 for the new nuke vs average of 3545 for the old nuke)
    New version has a nuke damage per second of 750 (due to the 2s capped cast time and 4s cooldown), while the old version had a nuke damage per second of 2085, assuming you could instacast it at the time and were never healing. The new version lets you sneak in a few heals here and there without reducing its dps much.

    It looks to me like there has been a decision that nukes should be nukes and DoTs should be DoTs. Malpractice was always a cross between the two, and to be quite honest, it was OP.

    There's also a new DoT line A nano, called Sophisticated Viral Agent, which does 1037 damage every 2 seconds for 30 seconds. The previous top DoT in this line did 837 damage per tick. That's a boost of 100 dps over 30 seconds.

    PS: Do remember that during rebalance, there will be losses and gains.
    Last edited by Demoder; Aug 12th, 2014 at 10:13:22.
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  4. #4
    While I agree, that it theoretically looks like we got a dmg boost, the reality will look a lot different.

    First you gotta UBT. Then you have 30 sec, to land 3 DoTs, which isn't a given. As Teeko already said, that leaves us with approx 22 secs where we can nuke. Best case scenario.

    Worst case (and more realistic) scenario: DoT's land on 2nd or 3rd time. You can't even get them in before UBT is about to run out. And don't forget you have to heal yourself every once in a while, which kills another 5s. And all that just to use Malp. Smh. I will probably just deal with "One-DoT-Malp-Dmg".
    Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    While I agree, that it theoretically looks like we got a dmg boost, the reality will look a lot different.

    First you gotta UBT. Then you have 30 sec, to land 3 DoTs, which isn't a given. As Teeko already said, that leaves us with approx 22 secs where we can nuke. Best case scenario.

    Worst case (and more realistic) scenario: DoT's land on 2nd or 3rd time. You can't even get them in before UBT is about to run out. And don't forget you have to heal yourself every once in a while, which kills another 5s. And all that just to use Malp. Smh. I will probably just deal with "One-DoT-Malp-Dmg".
    You could use iCH to instantly heal yourself with a 2s recharge every 20 seconds. And this new malpractice actually DOES give you a significant damage boost in PvM.
    Last edited by Demoder; Aug 12th, 2014 at 10:29:42.
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  6. #6
    I'm not talking about pvm though. I'm talking about while i'm tanking a shade or enf and I'm barely staying alive between stuns, I can't even do any damage when I'm able to. I'm too busy trying to get UBT to land, or get dots to land so I can attempt malp. I just want some pvp kill power. I was happy with my pvm damage. and if your only healing yourself once every 20 seconds with ICH, whoever your fighting is doing it wrong. I'm healing myself probably every 10 or so, sometimes spamming BI, with 26k HP on a nanomage, and utilizing my absorb in emergencys.

    Malpractice was a good size nuke that gave me some kill power in that time I wasn't spamming heals. I also liked trying to balance the healing and nuking the old malpractice forced you to do. Giving me a nuke in PVM doesn't really get my DD up in pvm, I'm too busy healing, ubt'ing, trying to land dots.

    In conclusion, I'm just looking for some insta casting, and that stupid malpractice mechanic looked at. take it back to where it was before, and remove the dot and make it just a nuke. I'll be super happy. As it stands now, my doc is eyeing those wisdoms in his bank and seriously considering it. Atleast I'll be back to looking damn good, right?

  7. #7
    Oh, and I also completely understand losses and gains. Like I said, take away my ridiculously OP 150+% healing efficency so my BI doesn't do 15k+heals with the 3k short hp buff on it(or remove that, could care less). Just don't take away my slim ability to kill someone. I work hard for that kill, and it took me 3 AMS cycles to kill a soldier on test today lol. If they don't kill me during first one, they should be dead. But in that 40s of downtime, I didn't have the ability to get dots or malp enough to kill them, even with peh'wer/troa'ler and spamming AS on top of dots/malp...

    And I apologize for the original cap times I claimed at 3s, I roughly timed it while playing ingame. Just was an estimate more than anything, couldn't figure out how to tell the actual cap.
    Last edited by Teeko; Aug 12th, 2014 at 10:57:49.

  8. #8
    Granted these nerfs are unnecessary (having played a NT for some time I know how much capped cast times blow in pvp) but complaining how you can't kill with a profession called DOCTOR who's primary role is HEALING is pretty ridiculous.

    Here's a good idea, lets merge all profs into one since almost everyone in this game expects their favored profs to be a jack of all trades.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    While I agree, that it theoretically looks like we got a dmg boost, the reality will look a lot different.

    First you gotta UBT. Then you have 30 sec, to land 3 DoTs, which isn't a given. As Teeko already said, that leaves us with approx 22 secs where we can nuke. Best case scenario.

    Worst case (and more realistic) scenario: DoT's land on 2nd or 3rd time. You can't even get them in before UBT is about to run out. And don't forget you have to heal yourself every once in a while, which kills another 5s. And all that just to use Malp. Smh. I will probably just deal with "One-DoT-Malp-Dmg".
    Nah, the loss of an instant-UBT isnt in fact THAT harsh as it may look at first glance. As long as our both UBT-procs remain as they are, we are init-debuffing the s.h.i.t. out of our oponents. Since heavy oponents like Enforcer and Soldiers (if played by decent players) are uneffected by UBT anyway, I can not see a huge loss.

    But, making the operational damage harder to cast, reduces our effectivity there - thats my point. Our dot deals more damage now? Vs. who? Raging Enforcer? Cleansing Fixer? AMS Soldier? Other Docs with (now) a DOT removal nano?

    Impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Granted these nerfs are unnecessary (having played a NT for some time I know how much capped cast times blow in pvp) but complaining how you can't kill with a profession called DOCTOR who's primary role is HEALING is pretty ridiculous.

    Here's a good idea, lets merge all profs into one since almost everyone in this game expects their favored profs to be a jack of all trades.
    Disagreed.

    This long-lasting discusison about a Doctors ultra passive intended role is boring. Much more boring then it is ridiculous for you Paf.

    The truth is, that, in a sense of BALANCING, all given classes/professions in a game should be more or less even. I only know AO where this situation is different. In all other games, every heal profession can kill others in pvp - and tbh, the perform pretty well. Not unkillable, not godlike, but yeah, they can kill. It is maybe your way of thinking about a Doctor, but, a Doctor can be an evil part too. Ment to harm and inflict poison and damage to others. If AOs basic idea of a Doctor would be to be ONLY and primarily a HEALING character, they wouldnt be able to inflict harm, poison and damage - or am I mistaken?

    I personally chose this road years ago and I am not a friend of beeing pushed into this "you are a doc, you are only a healer!" role.

    It is a fact that Docs always were able to kill in PvP. Even with a big luv of damage in PvP, we would be killable by most other professions. Not a jack of all trades. Not a god. Not THE one and only profession. We would be just competetive.

    Greetings,
    Dumonde
    Last edited by Dumonde; Aug 12th, 2014 at 12:12:16.
    ..:: 220|30|70|e|::.. Dumonde
    ..:: 220|30|70|e|::.. Rank1
    ..:: 220|30|70|e|::.. Maxwell
    ..:: 220|30|70|e|::.. Zidane
    ..:: 220|28|66|e|::.. Isaak
    ..:: 215|20|56|e|::.. Rumb0
    ..:: 215|15|29|e|::.. Tiesto-1
    ..:: 212|17|46|e|::.. Pulsedriver
    ..:: 210|08|09|e|::.. Unseen


    .. :: Punk :: ..

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Granted these nerfs are unnecessary (having played a NT for some time I know how much capped cast times blow in pvp) but complaining how you can't kill with a profession called DOCTOR who's primary role is HEALING is pretty ridiculous.

    Here's a good idea, lets merge all profs into one since almost everyone in this game expects their favored profs to be a jack of all trades.
    So you're saying basically every prof is allowed to have a chance in PvP, but not docs? Docs should stick to PvM and make sure everyone gets their PvP stuff and then log off?
    Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumonde View Post
    Nah, the loss of an instant-UBT isnt in fact THAT harsh as it may look at first glance. As long as our both UBT-procs remain as they are, we are init-debuffing the s.h.i.t. out of our oponents. Since heavy oponents like Enforcer and Soldiers (if played by decent players) are uneffected by UBT anyway, I can not see a huge loss.
    Guess you're right. I'm just used to give it a try every now and then anyways, since UBT is insta, but I'll just stop it then. ^.^
    Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumonde View Post
    In all other games, every heal profession can kill others in pvp - and tbh, the perform pretty well.
    What all other games ? In WoW for example, a game the AO crew is copying abilites from shamelessly, healers are harmless in terms of damage. In DAoC healers don't have any damage either, unless they spec for it nerfing their heals significantly.
    Healing isn't a passive role, it's just a different role in which you are actively keeping your team alive while other actual damage dealing professions do damage. Not being able to do damage =/= passive role.

    Yes it's a fact that doctors were always able to kill in pvp, if their target was afk or doesn't know how to move. It's also a fact that advies are insanely overpowered, enfs can alpha almost anything without trying while being immune to cc, fixers disappear when you attack them, NTs get disabled for 1 minute by a single common debuff, soldiers are immortal for 2 full minutes against 12/14 professions etc. Fact doesn't mean common sense and even though I disagree with much of what funcom is doing with their idea of rebalance, including the capped cast times like I already said, the argument that docs can't kill is all but selfishness really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    So you're saying basically every prof is allowed to have a chance in PvP, but not docs? Docs should stick to PvM and make sure everyone gets their PvP stuff and then log off?
    As far as I know heals work fine in pvp. Not only fine, they work at 100% capacity while all damage done in pvp is halved and reduced even more by reflect buffs. In fact they're so overpowered certain professions have 0 chance at killing a doc. I think it's only fair that docs have a very low chance of killing them back, don't you agree ?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumonde View Post
    [..] The truth is, that, in a sense of BALANCING, all given classes/professions in a game should be more or less even. I only know AO where this situation is different. In all other games, every heal profession can kill others in pvp - and tbh, the perform pretty well. Not unkillable, not godlike, but yeah, they can kill. It is maybe your way of thinking about a Doctor, but, a Doctor can be an evil part too. Ment to harm and inflict poison and damage to others. If AOs basic idea of a Doctor would be to be ONLY and primarily a HEALING character, they wouldnt be able to inflict harm, poison and damage - or am I mistaken?
    Seconded. If that was the intent docs would have gotten some NT cyberdeck like "weapon" with all significant heals requiring that item plus DoT and Nukes considerably nerfed in PvP.
    As it seems that this is not the case, the changes done to Malpractice should be reconsidered to get things balanced. What should be nerfed somewhat in PvP is healing.
    --

    I think the changes to UBT are for the better in terms of balancing.
    Last edited by Misat0; Aug 12th, 2014 at 12:46:41.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    As far as I know heals work fine in pvp. Not only fine, they work at 100% capacity while all damage done in pvp is halved and reduced even more by reflect buffs. In fact they're so overpowered certain professions have 0 chance at killing a doc. I think it's only fair that docs have a very low chance of killing them back, don't you agree ?
    so you say docs shouldnt be able to kill anyone and only be able to heal and survive? yeah would be the best to take duels and solo pvp from docs. i mean there is so many team pvp going on atm it wouldnt change much anyway...
    and docs are overpowered? i think they are rather balanced atm and they will get nerfed alot while others who are already OP get no nerf and even more love.

  15. #15
    Yes, docs should heal and not kill, that's the purpose of healing classes. The fact that you can slap on a weapon doesn't automatically make you a killer. A profession that cannot die 1v1 in a timeframe between now and forever is the very definition of overpowered, yes. There's not much pvp going on at all, a tiny bit of city pvp and that's it and docs never really shined at that either.
    Last edited by Pafpuf; Aug 12th, 2014 at 16:06:25.

  16. #16
    a advy can survive vs a nt forever too... oh noes they are OP. engi can survive vs a agent forever too... another OP prof it seems. the only difference is that they already got far more dmg than docs have even before nerfing it.
    docs can survive vs a few profs forever but gets instant alphaed from some others too. thats how it works for almost every prof...

  17. #17
    you guys will learn how to be a support prof now, like it was intended (not wtfpwn everyone and everything)
    hf
    Genele: ofc I come back to u difs. U used to look as hot as me

  18. #18
    You mean like all the other support profs who cant kill anything?
    Last edited by Hassler; Aug 12th, 2014 at 17:55:29.

  19. #19
    Who can also die, some very easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hassler View Post
    a advy can survive vs a nt forever too... oh noes they are OP.
    It's pretty common knowledge that advs are at the top of the OP foodchain, where are you going with this? Wouldn't you rather see advs toned down or would you rather keep using "advs are op too" and other similar analogies to maintain the gigantic gaps in profession balance ? No profession should be 100% immortal against another.
    Last edited by Pafpuf; Aug 12th, 2014 at 18:39:52.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Pafpuf View Post
    Yes, docs should heal and not kill, that's the purpose of healing classes. The fact that you can slap on a weapon doesn't automatically make you a killer. A profession that cannot die 1v1 in a timeframe between now and forever is the very definition of overpowered, yes. There's not much pvp going on at all, a tiny bit of city pvp and that's it and docs never really shined at that either.
    That makes at much sense as taking away defense from "killer professions" would... Which is not a lot... of sense that is.

    Doctors are meant to both heal AND harm... always have been. That other games are very narrow minded and stereotypical in their profession roles, does not mean that AO should be that way as well... Only serves to make it all more boring.
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