Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 90

Thread: Shade is a Joke atm?

  1. #61
    I think it's fair to say that Shades are one of the top DD's in game right now, and I don't think there's any planned/forced usurp of that position with 18.7.

    That said, I'm not convinced raw DPS is going to be the main attraction anymore with 18.7.

    In 18.6 with a crat+enf+doc+keeper in team, you can just cruise through most encounters, with big badass boss hits only getting through 1 every 30ish seconds or so if the doc spams fling/normal's to light up procs while crat keeps his debuffs up and keeper didn't forget to buff prior to starting content. In this scenario, DPS is the next highest utility. Spam dmg and end the content fast so we can get back to whatever it was we wanted to do.

    But post 18.7 I think there's going to be a real need for people to be reconsidering the value of damage mitigation.

    Consider:

    Enf has 25-30% less HP right off the top.
    Total crat debuffs are about 800 inits less than 18.7
    Many Doc's may opt for silverback instead of lust/tro setups which may result in reduced proc chances

    That means a lot more damage getting through the holes in Ward - and that's IF you can get a keeper.

    What that means is that there may be a greater degree of focus on requisite damage mitigation strategies and healing in opposition to raw DPS.

    While shade has strong raw DPS, they also have some utility on damage mitigation. The question is, what else will be needed?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    But post 18.7 I think there's going to be a real need for people to be reconsidering the value of damage mitigation.

    Consider:

    Enf has 25-30% less HP right off the top.
    Total crat debuffs are about 800 inits less than 18.7
    This is why I believe MPs and Traders and the like will become more desirable and hence why I believe JustinSane4 is wrong in that he claims "omg only shadez is needed most opus".
    The Devs are trying to move away from init debuffs being king - by stacking them all in one line so you don't have so much init debuffs the boss never has a chance to hit. So, in order to make the mobs easier to kill, you need more variety of debuffs. Damage output reducing debuffs, other - stacking, smaller - init debuffs, mitigation buffs, etc etc. These will become more important and hence the profs that have them will too.

    (And more healing/heal reactivity etc etc will become useful with the reduction in enf max HP and more frequent damage on the tank is always nice)
    Bainzyy - Level 220/30 Shade
    PvP-ing - RP-ing - PvMing

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Bainzy View Post
    This is why I believe MPs and Traders and the like will become more desirable and hence why I believe JustinSane4 is wrong in that he claims "omg only shadez is needed most opus".
    The Devs are trying to move away from init debuffs being king - by stacking them all in one line so you don't have so much init debuffs the boss never has a chance to hit. So, in order to make the mobs easier to kill, you need more variety of debuffs. Damage output reducing debuffs, other - stacking, smaller - init debuffs, mitigation buffs, etc etc. These will become more important and hence the profs that have them will too.

    (And more healing/heal reactivity etc etc will become useful with the reduction in enf max HP and more frequent damage on the tank is always nice)
    I ran through a damage mitigation discussion some time ago on here, but basically I think you're correct.

    moving away from init debuffing is key to utilisation of other classes.

    There are MANY different methods to mitigate damage, it's kind of weird how most of us are so tied to init debuffing as being the primary method.

    init debuffing on it's own is like reducing damage by maybe 30-40% max Add watch ward to that and you mitigate 90%+

    So few people think about the conceptual benefit of reducing frequency of hits and pairing that with a high frequency blocker. The math makes perfect sense but the demand for keeper's is so low still, it's mind boggling to me.

    But what's worse is the dependency.

    Like, why not evade-tank?
    why not AAO debuff and pair with a MP for -dmg and AC's?

    Like, engi+trader+MP can reduce damage by a huge margin. -1210AAO+ -300 AAO + dazzle = -1700 AAO which effectively drops a mob weapon size by about 1/3, then add 24% reflects and 5000AC's and -900 add dmg and you've gone from a 9k regular to 3500ish regulars not to mention giving the tank about the same effective defence as ES+DOF running full time.

    Anyway I just hope the init debuff is de-intensified so we see some broader scope damage mitigation... even if it is forced on us.

  4. #64
    I think the main issue with other forms of damage mitigation is that the numbers in this game are honestly really poorly balanced. Monsters generally have two levels of attack rating, "low enough to never hit you", and "high enough to never miss". Same with evades, NR, AC, pretty much any numbers. Attack speed isn't governed by checking our stats vs the NPC's, so it's much more reliably debuffed. At least part of this issue is a result of players' stats constantly fluctuating over the years, the level of evades, AR, nano skills and whatnot we're capable of is always shifting and that makes it tough to balance content. If pretty much any of these numbers worked, traders would be invaluable to any team, but as it is most people seem to think of them simply as second-rate DPS.

    It would likely be a huge project to make evades, weapon skills and armor truly relevant in encounters, hopefully Michi is up for the task after we get some of the prof changes out of the way. It would be a really nice step forward for the game and make a bunch of professions suddenly become highly valued.

  5. #65
    I cant believe the new patchnotes
    why more damage
    why more heal
    why more debuff
    why more evades

    in cant understand this
    Last edited by Haudenlucas; Apr 18th, 2015 at 19:05:00.

  6. #66
    Lucas its pretty clear that they are not willing to take the Risk of scareing off paying Customers who rolled a Shade just to be "Übar" for the Sake of Balance ...
    MA 4 Life ... No matter how hard you try, you can't put us down.
    -----
    I dislike Multiboxes , Makros , Programmable Keyboards , Multiple Actions to 1Key-Binds << all of them simply do not fit my Idea of Gaming-Skills/Competition-Ethics .
    -----
    Dear Developers for Future scaling of Items & Nanorequiments please consider that :
    -there are Players below 220
    -there are Players without Towers
    -there are Players without full Org-Benefits
    -there are free Players

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    Shade:

    Acrobat 4 - 190 static, average of 615 from DoF/Limber [(200+800) * (40/65) = 615], total 805
    Careful in Battle 10 - 300 static, 150 average from evasive stance [(30/200) * 1000 = 150], total 450
    Shadow 10 - 100 static, total 100
    SP 10 - 150 static, 120 from vitality, 15 from vigor, 52 from spirit, 22 from essence, total 359
    SR 10 - 30 static
    Improved Prowler - 140
    Trickle from Agility in buffs/nanos - 28
    Winding Serpent - 25
    Triple Wall - 30

    Shade Total: 1,967

    As to the debuffs being better: Again, I was speaking of test live, where it's -1,400 on a 100% proc. But to compare MP and Shade pvm debuffs on test live:

    So on one side you are putting shade evades and on other side you are not using Totemic Rites for DD and heal. And i thought people are crying also about shades DD. So this is nice point that shade has to simply choose if want to be PVM with damage and heal or PVP with evades. Also shade (if not opi) have to think if spirits will be with AAO or with AAD. Not like with symbiant where you have both.
    Last edited by Yama; Apr 19th, 2015 at 08:43:25.
    -o--oOo--o--
    Yama*007
    -o--oOo--o--

  8. #68
    what about soliders? support class ? And you bring doc for damage right?:. thought so.. Dont nurf shades. they are fine..but please up other classes to match there game role .
    Last edited by ByLogic; Apr 19th, 2015 at 12:05:16.

  9. #69
    Shade damage is ok. Very high, but ok.
    Shade survivability is completely unbalanced.

  10. #70
    Why is this being necro'd? I think just about everything has been discussed somewhere in here. Lets not have cyclical arguments - read through the thread first...
    Last edited by Bainzy; Apr 21st, 2015 at 04:20:07. Reason: typo
    Bainzyy - Level 220/30 Shade
    PvP-ing - RP-ing - PvMing

  11. #71
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Haudenlucas View Post
    I cant believe the new patchnotes
    why more damage
    I cant find any more dmg in those patch notes. Please dont tell me you mean 15 more dmg from offhand medi-blade. Thats like 300 damage per minute more. Is it really worth posting on forums?
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  12. #72
    On top of that Ciex, its a whole 300dpm more for a loss of 15AAO and 15AAD (and 250 HP!) what a cruel cruel change! This will surely cripple all the other professions.

    /s
    Bainzyy - Level 220/30 Shade
    PvP-ing - RP-ing - PvMing

  13. #73
    well then Think deeply. Now you can proper triple whield with XIRA + Punchknife without loosing the high crit modifers you had to take if you use spike. that is reallly good buff to the dmg. And if you dont like it you can still go dual IHMB and in both hands are dmg increase + Anyway your sharpobject buffs allowes you to reach 1.8 k for tear of oedipus i think. i dont see why you asked that question ciex

  14. #74
    Mediblade, ia nice change, also backstab is 20s now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    Mediblade, ia nice change, also backstab is 20s now.
    It always has been if memory serves me correctly.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Jintra View Post
    Shade damage is ok. Very high, but ok.
    Shade survivability is completely unbalanced.
    this. a thousand times this.

  17. #77
    Shades are meant to be one target beasts.

    My reckoning? Make it so that they can't heal unless the target is attacking someone else.

  18. #78
    Well since shade was complete joke since SL release i think its time for them to get some love

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Opscuro View Post
    Well since shade was complete joke since SL release i think its time for them to get some love
    i suppose you mean love from behind, right? shadestyle.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Xootch View Post
    i suppose you mean love from behind, right? shadestyle.
    Shade on shade is unholy. Or extra holy. I'm not even certain anymore!

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •