Idea for breed-balance

[Cyberleet]

Imo, the game is too cookie-cutter and there is very little skill-diference between breeds.

So here are some ideas:

PS/
Perking one of the two AI-perklines will make you unable to perk the other.

AI-perks


1: Champion of nanocombat - Nanomage only (remove nanofeast and make BC have less damage but better debuff)
2: New AI-perkline that gives add damage - Nanomage only (move absorb-remover perk here)

1: Champion of heavy/light artillery/Infantry - Opifex only (remove fuss and ff, add blind here)
2: New AI-perkline that gives aad - Opifex only (add 'limber' or 'wit' to it, remove opening from the game)

1: Mongo Rage - Atrox only (move MR from atrox primary to here and remove Body Tackle from the game)
2: New AI-perkline that gives HP - Atrox only (move 'heal' from 'first aid' here with a little more healingpower)

1: A perkline with weaponskills (not as good as champion) for solitus (move the perk 'sphere' here)
2: A perkline with nanoskills (not as good as champion) for solitus (add a perk that debuffs nanoresist)

SL

Enhance Health - Solitus and Atrox only (move 'surrival' here)
Enhance Nano (buffs nanopool) - Solitus and Mage only (move 'regain nano' here)
Enhance Agility - Solitus And Opifex - It buffs aad/aao/runspeed (move the rootresist-perk here)

..................................



So thats my idea.

This way there is no perk-actions from the twinking-perks and less generic ai-damageperks.

Since the game evolves much around generic ai-perks (combined with special-attacks) in pvp and the outcome of that is too similar to FPS-combat (instead of turnbased-combat) I suggest to remove lots of the ai-damageperks. Bring back professions to the game.



Edit:
Decrease requirements on DB and APF-nanos.

[Oliveerz]

No. Making a line like CoNC unavailable for example a atrox is devastating. The nanoskills given in that line is very much needed.

[Cyberleet]

Making a line like CoNC unavailable for example a atrox is devastating.

Thats the idea, kinda.

With this suggestion the APF and DB-nanos should have their requirements decreased tho.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I like the concept.

I think there could be a bit more of the X beats Y, Y beats Z, Z beats X thing though with better off/def definition. Also, I think it's nice to have one line with perma buffs and the other line with temp boosts.

i.e.

Off Atrox gets MR (1500AR for 10s/90s)
Def Atrox gets My own fortress 3% reflect, 1500hp perma

off nano gets nano resist debuffer -1500NR for 30s/90s
def nano gets passive 5% nano damage and 5% heal eff perma

off opi gets 200AAO 200add dmg for 30s/90s
def opi gets 100AAD, 200RS perma

off soli gets -800 AAD perk (easy check like AR vs 1% EC/DR) 10s/90s
def soli gets 500HP/500nano 2% heal eff/heal react perma

[Cyberleet]

also let mr be accessible from level 50 and then grow stronger with each perk you train

[McKnuckleSamwich]

now you're talking.

[Pafpuf]

I like the idea.

I like the concept.

I think there could be a bit more of the X beats Y, Y beats Z, Z beats X thing though with better off/def definition. Also, I think it's nice to have one line with perma buffs and the other line with temp boosts.

i.e.

Off Atrox gets MR (1500AR for 10s/90s)
Def Atrox gets My own fortress 3% reflect, 1500hp perma

off nano gets nano resist debuffer -1500NR for 30s/90s
def nano gets passive 5% nano damage and 5% heal eff perma

off opi gets 200AAO 200add dmg for 30s/90s
def opi gets 100AAD, 200RS perma

off soli gets -800 AAD perk (easy check like AR vs 1% EC/DR) 10s/90s
def soli gets 500HP/500nano 2% heal eff/heal react perma

Such opi hate runspeed and 100 aad vs 1500 aao/-800 aad debuffs.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

such lies. having perma 100AAD is significant for borderline perkable players.

similarly, having 200 AAO with 1/3 uptime is also significant. The benefit is obvious - MR lasts 10s, which, if you're good is all you need, but if you're a soldier, for example, then it pays in spades to have a longer duration AAO boost due to long charging perk debuffs.

I'm not saying it's balanced though.

wait a sec. what do opi's have now? Isn't this a bit better than what they currently have?

[Pafpuf]

That's the problem, it's a borderline defensive buff while the offensive ones will breach through many defensive borders. With AO pvp being reduced to atrox dominated borealis alpha wars for the past several years what do you think adding 500 hp or 100 aad will do compared to reducing MR cooldown by a full minute? It would make sense if the value was lower(+800 for example), doesn't make sense for an offensive perk with such high value to have a 90 second cooldown when the only thing close to countering it with squishy evade profs (deceptive stance/evasive stance) has a 9 minute downtime. DoF isn't a counter to MR, hasn't been for a long time. Your suggestion isn't all bad though, opi would be very desirable for pvm dd and better in certain duels but the 100 AAD you claim is significant is actually very situational whereas a 1500 AAO buff will often end a fight in 1-4 seconds with the push of a button. You're right it's not balanced, the huge differences in value can't be justified with small differences in uptime.

Yes it's better than what opis have now but the way I see it it's like giving cake to the fat kid and bread to the hungry skinny kid next to him.

[Cyberleet]

a 1500 AAO buff will often end a fight in 1-4 seconds with the push of a button.

Has to be a counter to high evades too. The dot from this is laughable tho.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Ahh don't take my suggestion too seriously.

I meant to emphasize that I thought it would be a good idea to have perma boosts on one line vs temp boosts on the other.

It could be as simple as:

atrox = max boost/shortest duration
soli = medium boost/short duration
opi = less boost/longer duration
nano= a different kind of boost entirely

[Cyberleet]

nano= a different kind of boost entirely

sorb!

[DigitalBath]

The idea for breed balance is not a bad one at heart, but I feel the implementations discussed here are misguided and wouldn't really balance anything at all.

I play all 4 breeds in pvm and pvp, as do many others.. and there's basically two things I can see being done at this stage to "balance" it:

1 - Make Mongo Rage a lot less appealing. - This has the issue of making evade professions OP. (not breeds! as that seems to be what's wrong with OP's idea). An Atrox shade/adv/fixer will evade your non-MR'd stuff too!
2 - Give equally "powerful" attack/defense options to other breeds on the equivalent perkline. - This would be hell to design and balance as Atrox get 1500 AR atm. To provide equal defensive benefit wouldn't make much sense as it's basically the same as removing MR (or worse, creating a "react to my MR with your Defensive MR or DIE!" mechanic). To provide equal offensive benefit would make these perklines mandatory for most pvp players, which makes for even more cookie-cutter builds.

It's a catch 22 and I frankly can't come up with a solution that doesn't involve redoing way too much stuff, which instantly makes it less viable and prone to further accidental unbalancing. Maybe a proper game designer can think this through, though.

[drainbamage]

This thread should be titled "Idea for breed imbalance"

also it sucks

[Louderer789]

So why did you dig it up?

Anyway the only breed remaining to be balanced is opifex really, still with nothing compelling. Great, they can debuff opponent 150 AAD at TL7, ...except soli can buff themselves 150 AAO (better because it doesn't have a defcheck) or trox can buff themselves 500-1500 AAO. And defensively is even worse. And MR should be changed to +500 with no debuff.

Still waiting for opi to get some +500 AAD 15s breedperk or 50% heal item that can be used every 5 minutes or something to make people want to roll one ;p

[Chewy1]

No. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.

[Painolympics]

No. This is stupid. And you should feel bad. Perks can ne used to make up for what you lack in breed ability. Conc for nm...who naturally have high nanoskill is fking retarded. This shouldnt make me mad, but its like every proposed liberal law or sanction. Its just stupid. So stupid. Stop being stupid.

[Ophiuchus]

If one breed is vastly superior for a profession overall, then your game design has failed.

Have breed differences make them better at some aspects of a profession, and worse at other aspects. Have your breed choice influence HOW you go about playing a profession - what parts it's better for, what parts it's worse for. Never have your breed make you all-round worse.

[Painolympics]

The game deaign hasnt failed if a trox nt doesnt do as well as a nm. Nm is designed "biologically" to perform better with notum/nano skills. Whereaa @trox is designed to be the physcial/ workhorse type. Balance doesnt mean averaging out all prods and breeds, it just means having a fair chance. Im sorry your nm shade with pistols is performing horribly, but it doesnt indicate a failure in game design.