Again. Multiboxing in AO. ttl7 / ttl5 pvp.

[DarkerThanBlack]

AO without multilogging/multiboxing and massive account sharing would have been dead years ago, the playerbase is just too small for a solo player to be dependent on the community. A lot more people quit because they had nothing to do in this game and those complaining about multiboxers are just jealous cause multiboxers can do any content they want while solo players have to sit on lft and ask around for a team for hours if not days. I honestly can't blame them for not wanting to spend most of their in game time chatting and waiting. Multiboxing/account sharing is simply a way some players remedied the low population problem this game has, one that started occurring years before multiboxing became a thing. Multiboxing may be considered cheating by some, and account sharing might be against the eula but fact of the matter is in the long run both kept this game running much longer than it should have.

Fyi I don't multibox at all, it's just a matter of looking at the big picture after weighing the pros against the cons and leaving your personal feelings (because you died in pvp) out of it.

[titemeta]

I'm not jealous. And to read that multibox saved AO is just a joke. Well, have fun guys.

[bixx]

Im not sure why are you complaining about MB in pvp, ive never seen you in tower wars or bore pvp or tara. Why would you complain about pvp if you are not doing it? Thats my biggest question. OH and bye.

[DarkerThanBlack]

I'm not jealous. And to read that multibox saved AO is just a joke. Well, have fun guys.

No worries I didn't expect my words to penetrate the thickness of your tinfoil hat, good riddance.

[soul]

Im not sure why are you complaining about MB in pvp, ive never seen you in tower wars or bore pvp or tara. Why would you complain about pvp if you are not doing it? Thats my biggest question. OH and bye.

What's your point, pretty much all of the people whining in this thread would not know how to find a tower field. But it's their right to whine!!!

[Awikun]

14th Aniversary of AO is coming and we will all see how mutiboxers can/will ruin it !

I expect some of those to make their own raids and farming Desert Raider to sell lootrights ...

[Caloss2]

What's your point, pretty much all of the people whining in this thread would not know how to find a tower field. But it's their right to whine!!!

Just for the record, if you were banned and lost all your boxing accounts along with the accounts that you keep sharing to do it, how much will you be whining on a scale of 1-100 ?

[Chewy1]

Im not sure why are you complaining about MB in pvp, ive never seen you in tower wars or bore pvp or tara. Why would you complain about pvp if you are not doing it? Thats my biggest question. OH and bye.

I was thinking the exact same thing. He's the solo one trying to take out a RAIDFORCE and complains when be dies apparently.

[RedWatr]

I'm not jealous. And to read that multibox saved AO is just a joke. Well, have fun guys.

who exactly are you anyway? just curious, see, I have my toons in my sig, I think yours is broken maybe..

[Wisdomman]

I'm not jealous. And to read that multibox saved AO is just a joke. Well, have fun guys.

I love how he goes from

"I'll Never quit trying to save AO!"

"Notices how many people are reading hes forum"

"Mic drops".... "I'm out"

On a real note though. I'm sorry you lost your wind and didn't get anything accomplished. But, if you really wanted to make a real difference you could of collaborated better with the AO community and developed actual fix, or something second best.

Instead we give up and QQ onto a different game. Hey I'm not judging.

Take it easy.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

AO without multilogging/multiboxing and massive account sharing would have been dead years ago, the playerbase is just too small for a solo player to be dependent on the community. A lot more people quit because they had nothing to do in this game and those complaining about multiboxers are just jealous cause multiboxers can do any content they want while solo players have to sit on lft and ask around for a team for hours if not days. I honestly can't blame them for not wanting to spend most of their in game time chatting and waiting. Multiboxing/account sharing is simply a way some players remedied the low population problem this game has, one that started occurring years before multiboxing became a thing. Multiboxing may be considered cheating by some, and account sharing might be against the eula but fact of the matter is in the long run both kept this game running much longer than it should have.

This is a pretty goddamn astute and highly relevant observation.

[Wisdomman]

This is a pretty goddamn astute and highly relevant observation.

Lets be realistic here. Very few subscriptions come from MB'ing, one could argue the "complexity" birthing more active instances of the game, but lets be honest.... People will always raid when a instance can be made, most raids out there are done without MBing and most Mb'ers want to limited the people in their raid.

Now as far as double accounts, there is the real deal breaker. I know plenty of people who would quit on the spot the second you limited their number of accounts logged in. Almost every one is a normal player.

It just depends, they are more intimidated by negatively effecting others then they are concerned about fixing the MBing issue.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Lets be realistic here. Very few subscriptions come from MB'ing,

Let me interrupt you there for a second.


And lets explore this, because I feel that if this is truly the way you feel, then I honestly don't see how someone else could, at the exact same time, be arguing that multiboxers are killing the game, etc. ad nauseum.


Seriously. Can it really be both ways at once?

Can multiboxers be so efficient that multiboxers are simultaneously few, and breaking the game at the same time? I mean, it MIGHT be possible, but is it really?

Let me give you an example of the sheer insanity that I am occasionally dealing with.

!online
[Org chat] Botname: There are 36 members online: Click here to view
***[I am 6 boxed, out of picture, doing school quest with all 6 toons at once]***
[Org chat] Guy 1: hey does anyone want to do some DB 1?
[Org chat] Guy 2: Does anyone want to do Alappa?
[Org chat] Guy 3: I need some beast weapons
[Org chat] Guy 3: Hey, noobas, can you help us with a beast raid?
[Org chat] Me: I'm kinda busy atm, but if you guys can find a doc OR a enf OR a crat I'd be happy to help. I just don't feel like carrying the raid
[Org chat] Guy 4: I can help with alappa
[Org chat] Guy 2: I don't have enough experience to make a team though
[Org chat] Guy 1: I'll do beast lets see if we can make a team
15 seconds later
[Org chat] Guy 3: Well I guess we can't do beast
[Org chat] Me: why not?
[Org chat] Guy 1: we can't find enough people
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously... Like I get this like 50% of the time I'm logged in, it's like people know I have a "box" so there's this huge reliance on "the box" to make things happen. Really, I'd rather not bring the box, I would much rather just play ONE of the key profs. I hate playing 2. Hell, I'd rather run with DPS and not play any key roles.

But let me say something else. I haven't done a raid in AO in about 7 years where I didn't play one OR MORE of doc or crat or enf.

The problem in Today's AO isn't boxes. It's not multiboxes. Its:

1. People who don't want to roll a key prof
2. People who don't learn the content (or don't get offered spots to do content due to #1)
3. Dev's that have for what seems like eons, despite ALL the calls to the contrary, not provided players with sufficiently diverse secondary healers/tanks/CC, OR they have not publically advertised the capabilities of the profs they have tweaked so that they can fill those key roles, OR they haven't sufficiently fleshed out the secondary role fillers toolsets and they STILL simply don't work (or some combination thereof)
4. There simply aren't enough people online (in my TZ at least - I have no idea how it is in other TZ's)


Based on my experience, to date, MB's are certainly NOT taking opportunities away from people, they are frequently the only ones CAPABLE of providing opportunities to people.

one could argue the "complexity" birthing more active instances of the game, but lets be honest.... People will always raid when a instance can be made, most raids out there are done without MBing and most Mb'ers want to limited the people in their raid.

See above. In some TZ's, I agree most raids are done without MB, but in some "people poor" TZ's, notably Asian/Australian/pacific TZ's... there simply aren't opportunities to raid without one person filling 2-3-4-5-6 slots and fleshing out several aspects of the raid at once.

Now as far as double accounts, there is the real deal breaker. I know plenty of people who would quit on the spot the second you limited their number of accounts logged in. Almost every one is a normal player.

fully agree.

[Raggy]

I'm interested in what you think a 'key prof' constitutes since 18.7?

Enfo/Doc is probably the only thing that is an absolute must for Beast. But for most other instances, you can swap the Enfo for a Sol/Shade. Doc can be subbed for a Zazen MA/Advy and Crat isn't a key prof any more by any stretch of the imagination.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'm interested in what you think a 'key prof' constitutes since 18.7?

Enfo/Doc is probably the only thing that is an absolute must for Beast. But for most other instances, you can swap the Enfo for a Sol/Shade. Doc can be subbed for a Zazen MA/Advy and Crat isn't a key prof any more by any stretch of the imagination.

What I think doesn't matter. It's what the consensus thinks.

TBH, for beast I think crat is helpful.

An enf is still required.

I wouldn't do beast without a doc, or a advy+MA, or agent+MA.

For TNH/beast run (I.e. clearing the trash mobs, I've done it without a doc at least 5 times 18.6 and 18.7), I've done it without a doc and enf, but I've not done it without a crat, not because a crat is particularly useful, but because crats have the best team def buffs as well as top notch damage, LMN and good debuffs on TNH.

[Wisdomman]

Let me interrupt you there for a second.


And lets explore this, because I feel that if this is truly the way you feel, then I honestly don't see how someone else could, at the exact same time, be arguing that multiboxers are killing the game, etc. ad nauseum.

fully agree.

Let me stop you right there. (see what I did there? I'm trying to be cute!)

Not once have I said MB'ers are ruining the game, in fact I can be found defending Mb'ers most of the time.

The rest you put look OK, I'm lacking typing luster today. The real argument is.... How many extra instances are started for the "normal" players that it positively effects. I don't think its "enough" to earn the title "MB'ers are saving this game"

The rest you put is ok. Kinda lengthy, but I'm often guilty of that myself.

PS. "Not once on this forum". It's true I've been guilty hating on the MB'ers. But this was before my balls dropped.

[sultryvoltron]

I think it's time to put my actual opinion into this thread. Disclaimer, I do not multibox and never have.

Multiboxing is the logical progression of Dual Logging and exists only to make up for massive QoL flaws in AO. It is both necessary and damning for AO as it is the most logical but short-sighted solution to much larger overall problems.

Here are the reasons for my opinion:

1) The limitations of AO's item and credit banking and mail systems have made it mandatory that you use multiple characters to hold and transfer your items and credits. Also, the arbitrary credit limits combined with the constant injection of credits into the game (see old S10 and numerous exploits) caused prices to skyrocket requiring multiple characters to complete transactions for rare or desirable items.

2) AO has historically suffered from tremendous PvM imbalance, massive powercreep, and exploitive mechanics. Endgame raids and instancing combined with blatant PvM lovechild professions and "questionable game mechanics" made it more efficient and more rewarding to complete endgame content with as small of a team as possible. The teams eventually became so small and the exploits so bugged that a single person could control multiple characters to the minimally viable level. Iterate this a few times and improve with technology and you have a single person controlling an entire team using said exploitive methods to complete endgame content. It is more efficient to wall hop and abuse /stuck in Pande with 3 lovechild professions to kill the exact mob you want than it is to rally a raidforce, organize teams, assign roles, step, and complete sides + mids + TNH + Beast. Meanwhile, players who play non-lovechild professions are forced to roll one of these professions to get invites into these super-teams for a chance to get loot.

3) PvM raidbots have done more harm than good, but were also a necessity due to AO's poorly implemented team and raid functions. Players were forced to create systems to guarantee as "fair as possible" loot distribution where time = reward. These systems disproportionately rewarded raid leaders with pseudo-slaves unknowingly helping the raid leader gear out their mains and alts and filling their wallets. Most raid leaders did not have the charitable attitude required to run raids pro bono. The lack of charitable raid leaders combined with the inefficiency of the system and disproportionate rewarding caused people to move towards more self-sufficient farming methods.

4) Art through adversity. Low population made it harder and harder to get teams for content. Multi-logging became the logical answer to the lack of population. As people became more skilled and efficient in multiboxing, the benefits made their way over to PvP.

5) This snowball started years ago and nobody did anything to stop it. In fact, we did everything we could to actively encourage it by running kite hill services and starting Inf missions at exactly 160. Dual logging has been mandatory for years to make up for the horrible leveling experience in this game.

The longevity of this game is definitely in jeopardy, but it's not because multiboxing exists. This game is in jeopardy because having multiple accounts is mandatory.

[Wisdomman]

All very good points, and resonate well with my own.

I just wonder if AO couldn't transform farther and adapt the changes players are making it into.

You don't know what it isn't until you know what it is.

[sultryvoltron]

All very good points, and resonate well with my own.

I just wonder if AO couldn't transform farther and adapt the changes players are making it into.

You don't know what it isn't until you know what it is.

I sure as hell am not going to drop $90 per month on AO just to do the same tired content. If the future of AO is multiboxing then it is doomed for a certainty. The gaming community has simply moved on from subscription games, and largely in favor of F2P.

I just wonder how well AO could have done if it was closed down and reverse engineered or sold off so that a passionate fan(s) could have taken care of it. I think it could have been amazing, but at this point I believe it's too late.

[Wisdomman]

Right, So why not release it on steam with a lifetime payment and a new server?

Use the funding from that to make AO 2.

Why so negative? So many options. Allow char transfers between the two servers but no creds and no items.

Think productive instead. AO still has many options ahead.