umm specials! need i say more..(pvm here.. not pvp who gives a stuff about new overpowering weapons for pvp, its borked as it is)
umm specials! need i say more..(pvm here.. not pvp who gives a stuff about new overpowering weapons for pvp, its borked as it is)
umm, yes. I think you do need to say more.Originally posted by p0is0n
umm specials! need i say more.
The Queen Blades are slow, but any enforcer capable of wielding one can muster some serious Melee Init. And on the plus side, Queen Blades do chemical damage. Look at the damage profiles below and tell me that you wouldn't give up your QL200 Tsunayoshi weapon (and its specials) in a heartbeat for a queen blade. In PvM, that much higher of a minimum damage would be soooo worth it.
QL200 Tsunayoshi weapons are:
1he -> 10-500 (250)
2he -> 60-500 (370)
1hb -> 20-400 (220)
2hb -> 50-750 (250)
Queen Blade:
417-1083 (66)
Enhanced Queen Blade:
619-1383 (66)
Sorry, but I think that someone at the top of the heap demanding more is a bit childish... but that's just me.Originally posted by Sandrix
It is childish to try to deny us getting these ql 200 weapons, based solely on the premise of "Waaa I want cool stuff first!"
Its probably something very simple like changing 1 flag on the weapon stats that makes it drop off boss loot for certain QL's. It would not detract from anyone else getting fixes for their profession. In fact what would the effect be for another profession? The most powerful enf weapons that everyone complains about would still be more powerful than Tsunayoshi's ql 200 weapons! PLEASE get some perspective! It would not make enforcers more powerful in comparison to other professions than they already are. It would simply be an enhancement to the enjoyability of the game for people like me who enjoy having a choice about things. I didn't make an opifex enforcer to be uber, and I didn't choose 1he to be uber, but here is a very simple change which would give me a bit more viability, and I see people trying to deny me that pleasure becuase the EQB is to powerful. What.. The.. ****
It is totally beyond me what twisted course of logic one must take to conclude that "The EQB is too powerful so don't give enforcers ql 200 weapons from Tsunayoshi!" becase that is precisely the argument that is being made against Meetloaf's orginial suggestion.
Funcom please, please please please put these ql 200 weapons in game. It would not change the balance of enf vs. other professions, it would just make me happy about my char being able to reliably do what she is supposed to do, without becoming a QB clone*. HOLD AGGRO!
And on another note, if you send the message to FC that it is not ok to make minor and non-labor intensive changes to improve peoples game, it will come back to bite you in the end. Who knows, maybe if they did this one thing they would get in the habit of doing similar improvements for other professions.
*I don't have anything against QB users, but if I were to switch from my chosen path of 1he then my char would feel like a clone and it would totally ruin that char for me. 1 weapon per profession is not the way the game should be. And if you immediately think "a lot of professions only have 1 viable weapon" then consider this, continuing to push enforcers towards having only 1 correct weapon choice does nothing to improve that situation!
/shrug.
<Cheeze|Work> i told iwi to start her own guild
<Cheeze|Work> "downward spiral"
<Cheeze|Work> instead of "uprising"
Yea I'm at the top of the heap alright, my 10-340 weapons are soooo powerful. I'd just be sooo uber if they were 10-500 instead.. And I'm demanding so much aren't I? I'm asking that 1 change is made to already existing weapons to modify the loot tables. Why? Becuase for well over a year, the enforcer community has been perpetually asking for weapon diversity. Now, in game, are the very weapons which can give us that, yet we do not have it because apparently FC wants us all to use the same weapon, the Queen Blade. That is not OK with me, its time FC finished the job and put the weapons in up to ql 200.Sorry, but I think that someone at the top of the heap demanding more is a bit childish... but that's just me.
And muergen where does this become your business? FC does not have a linear list of things to do, there is not just 1 person working over there. The work it would take to implement ql 200 Tsunayoshi weapons would not push back fixes for any other profession. All they need to do is assign one guy to it for an afternoon to modify the stats on those weapons, I'm sure since they were just coded that the code is still well marked and accessible. I've said it before but I guess I'll repeat myself - Implementing ql 200 Tsunayoshi weapons would not affect the balance between Enforcers and Other professions, and it would not detract from other professions getting fixed. You have no grounds on which to deny us this other than that you got beaten by a QB using enforcer in the arena, and you're still mad about it so you have to take it out on non QB enfs in the forums.
Isisnorfret RK1 - Main
lets not forget about the poor adven community who would benefit from the addition of ql 200 versions of these weapons. We still have not received half of what we were promised in our "love" patch and currently only really have 1 or 2 weapons configurations that are viable.
You're absolutely right. I despise all of you for your already massive damage potentials, and further despise all of you for whining that you need even more.Originally posted by Sandrix
Yea I'm at the top of the heap alright, my 10-340 weapons are soooo powerful. I'd just be sooo uber if they were 10-500 instead.. And I'm demanding so much aren't I? I'm asking that 1 change is made to already existing weapons to modify the loot tables. Why? Becuase for well over a year, the enforcer community has been perpetually asking for weapon diversity. Now, in game, are the very weapons which can give us that, yet we do not have it because apparently FC wants us all to use the same weapon, the Queen Blade. That is not OK with me, its time FC finished the job and put the weapons in up to ql 200.
And muergen where does this become your business? FC does not have a linear list of things to do, there is not just 1 person working over there. The work it would take to implement ql 200 Tsunayoshi weapons would not push back fixes for any other profession. All they need to do is assign one guy to it for an afternoon to modify the stats on those weapons, I'm sure since they were just coded that the code is still well marked and accessible. I've said it before but I guess I'll repeat myself - Implementing ql 200 Tsunayoshi weapons would not affect the balance between Enforcers and Other professions, and it would not detract from other professions getting fixed. You have no grounds on which to deny us this other than that you got beaten by a QB using enforcer in the arena, and you're still mad about it so you have to take it out on non QB enfs in the forums.
Go get a ql135 black staff of the locked fist, raise your inits to max, and get a decent fob. Then take solace in the fact that although you lack diversity (oh god no D: ) you are still able to do as good, or more damage than any other prof out there. With a ql135 weapon. While everyone else is using their (by comparison) the same god awful weapons that they've put up with since launch, or the manex. I still don't understand just how hard you must have to work to come off so childish. You're surrounded by so many professions with NO weapon diversity at all, every single one of them running around with one of what, 5 different weapons? You get more stuff, and you still have the balls to come to the forums and say that you want more. I don't care how much work it takes to impliment, my point here from the start has been that you got something, it was very good, and now you're making a complete fool out of yourselves by insisting that you *need* more.
/warning! Sarcasm Incoming!
While you're at it, why don't you take the next step and go post your support in the 'Enfs are the nerfest prof in the game' thread?
/You're safe now!
Last edited by Meurgen; Dec 30th, 2002 at 04:56:29.
<Cheeze|Work> i told iwi to start her own guild
<Cheeze|Work> "downward spiral"
<Cheeze|Work> instead of "uprising"
same argument can be made about MPs already having gotten something and not needing anything more before the profs that are doing poorly get something. who cares that it was a half assed implementation to the peole that play the prof as long as those that don't play it get to feel that it was good loving, right?Originally posted by Meurgen
I don't care how much work it takes to impliment, my point here from the start has been that you got something, it was very good, and now you're making a complete fool out of yourselves by insisting that you *need* more. While you're at it, why don't you take the next step and go post your support in the 'Enfs are the nerfest prof in the game' thread?
I do not need more damage potential, nor am I asking for it. What I ask for is the full implementation of the enforcer loving patch. Doing so would not increase my damage potential, my potential for damage will always be the EQB. A weapon which I will never use based on principle, because like you, I consider it overpowered.You're absolutely right. I despise all of you for your already massive damage potentials, and further despise all of you for whining that you need even more.
First off, enforcers are meant to do more damage. We are melee and we do not have heal nanos. We are a simple class, defined by how much hp we have and how much damage we do. We need to do more damage than a rooting profession, because we spend less of the fight in range to attack than ranged professions. The other melee classes do less damage but have heal nanos. And no, we don't do more damage than most professions with the ql 135 weapons. I should know, since I've been using ql 135 weapons for nearly 70 levels now. My daitos do better than a black staff would, and I only do damage similar to most professions, and inferior damage compared to same lvl fixers with manexes. My damage in comparison to others has been dropping as I level, and will continue to drop as I level further.Go get a ql135 black staff of the locked fist, raise your inits to max, and get a decent fob. Then take solace in the fact that although you lack diversity (oh god no D: ) you are still able to do as good, or more damage than any other prof out there. With a ql135 weapon.
I already addressed that argument in an earlier post. Apparently you didn't read it, or ignored it, since you conveniently disregarded it. The lack of weapon diversity in other classes is a bad thing, understand? Restricting enforcers from having weapon variety does not help that situation in anyway, understand? Do I have to hold your hand and lead you through this line of reasoning? Your argument that other professions have no weapon diversity is contradicted by its own intent. If it is bad for them to not have weapon diversity, it is bad for enforcers to not have weapon diversity. Your piece of anecdotal evidence would be better served to prove that enforcers *should* get these weapons.While everyone else is using their (by comparison) the same god awful weapons that they've put up with since launch, or the manex. I still don't understand just how hard you must have to work to come off so childish. You're surrounded by so many professions with NO weapon diversity at all, every single one of them running around with one of what, 5 different weapons? You get more stuff, and you still have the balls to come to the forums and say that you want more.
To take this a little deeper (I hope you can follow) most professions have 1 or 2 weapon skills which are green or light blue. Enforcers have 4 bright green melee weapon skills, one which is light blue/dark green, the last, melee energy, being one step from dark blue. From our skill template it is clear that we are meant to have more weapon variety than most professions. Enforcers achieve character individuality through weapon choice, whereas other professions achieve character individuality through other routes. Whether or not they truly can achieve that individuality to a satisfactory condition is invalid in this argument. Enforcers will be able to if this "FC love" ever gets fully implemented.
There is a difference between potential weapon diversity for enforcers and other classes. That difference is that diverse and viable weapons for enforcers are already in the game. Failing to fully implement them is making a waste of the hours already spent coding these weapons.
Your point is invalid, because we did not get something that was very good. We got weapon lines which do not go high enough in QL to be truly valid at later levels. We are insisting that FC finish what they started and do what they should have done from the beginning.I don't care how much work it takes to impliment, my point here from the start has been that you got something, it was very good, and now you're making a complete fool out of yourselves by insisting that you *need* more.
Setting up the straw man, oldest trick in the book. I had nothing to do with that foolish thread, and relating this thread to it is misinformation. I am not here to misinform people and fool them into thinking I'm right with cheap ploys at misdirection. I am here to argue my point with solid reasoning.While you're at it, why don't you take the next step and go post your support in the 'Enfs are the nerfest prof in the game' thread?
Now, on to the point of who is childish. Childishness is a matter of intentions. It is my intent to give one of the professions in AO weapon diversity, which is something that players pretty much universally agree is a good thing. You are here to deny a profession of having weapon diversity. Continue to try to defend yourself if you wish, but the fact remains that you are standing in the way of progress for selfish, spiteful, and vindictave reasons.
Isisnorfret RK1 - Main
Introducing a weapon line and leaving out a third of them is not half assed? Well I guess it would be 2/3 assed, since they only put in 2/3 of the weapons they should have.If you're about to claim that the enforcer upgrade was half-assed, I am so reaching into this screen and smacking you.
There is no comparison between the MP changes and the Enf ones.
You're right, there is no comparison between the MP changes and the Enf changes. The MP changes were an enormous benefit to the profession. Being able to have the attack and heal pet made MP's so much better that it is utterly unthinkable that they should go back. Maybe some of you don't remember, but I played an MP to level 60 only being able to summon one pet at a time. (That was back when the highest level person I had ever seen was lvl 80.) The MP changes were a GODSEND! If it were not for the ability to cast multiple pets MP's would not be played, period.
If the Tsunayoshi weapons were taken back, oh well, we'd go back to the same old weapons we had before which perform as good or better. Or the level 161 people would sit back and laugh with thier QB's, which own all. I assure you adding a few not-fully implemented lines of weapons is nothing near the propensity of what was done for MP's. Do not even begin to say that the enforcer changes were anywhere even approaching the beneficiality of the MP changes.
Thyrra's point holds correct. At the heard of this matter, we have an oppurtunity to give a profession something which people want, for reasons that have nothing to do with being more or less powerful than other classes. Diversity. This is progress, and I would support such an improvement for any profession. Please rethink the reasons why you are standing in the way of a change which would improve the enjoyability of the enforcer profession without hurting others.
Isisnorfret RK1 - Main
I lub u sandrix
The part of my paragraph that you missed was:Originally posted by Thyrra
same argument can be made about MPs already having gotten something and not needing anything more before the profs that are doing poorly get something. who cares that it was a half assed implementation to the peole that play the prof as long as those that don't play it get to feel that it was good loving, right?
it was very good
Sandrix: Heh, 5+ pages and the point it still being missed. The simplest way to proceed from here would be for you to answer the question:
What about your lineup of weapons is inferior to the lineup of any other classes weapons?
Don't count the manex. As someone who is currently using it, I also believe that it's much too powerful in comparison with what was the previous generation of weapons.
<Cheeze|Work> i told iwi to start her own guild
<Cheeze|Work> "downward spiral"
<Cheeze|Work> instead of "uprising"
Muergen, that was such a sad reply I'm not even going to bother. Put some effort into your post and at least make it comprehensible if you expect me to waste my time trying to reason with you.
Isisnorfret RK1 - Main
And while I'm at it, let me edit my previously previous post for easier consumption. This should save me valuable time by not having to reply to your erroneously overanalytic response.
<Cheeze|Work> i told iwi to start her own guild
<Cheeze|Work> "downward spiral"
<Cheeze|Work> instead of "uprising"
Nice try. Here's the template response for you to post in the future:Originally posted by Sandrix
Muergen, that was such a sad reply I'm not even going to bother. Put some effort into your post and at least make it comprehensible if you expect me to waste my time trying to reason with you.
I can not answer that question, because it would damage my argument to the point of no repair.
Next?
<Cheeze|Work> i told iwi to start her own guild
<Cheeze|Work> "downward spiral"
<Cheeze|Work> instead of "uprising"
So you are willing to say that I am erroneous yet you are not willing to say what I am erroneous about? Do you know what the word erroneous means or were you just using it to sound intelligent?And while I'm at it, let me edit my previously previous post for easier consumption. This should save me valuable time by not having to reply to your erroneously overanalytic response.
I countered every one of the points that you made and clearly explained the reasons why your argument is weak. Coming back and simply calling my post "erroneous" isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.
Isisnorfret RK1 - Main
This is pathetic, you are a disgrace to anyone who knows what the purpose of debate is, to discover truth. This is yet another straw man you have created. Let me tell you why I cannot answer your question. Here it is again.Nice try. Here's the template response for you to post in the future:
I can not answer that question, because it would damage my argument to the point of no repair.
Next?
I do not mind bad grammar and mispelling but this sentence is so bad that I can not decipher what your question is.What about your lineup of weapons is inferior to the lineup of any other classes weapons?
Isisnorfret RK1 - Main
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that English isn't your strong suit.
At least it keeps you from posting any other worthless rehashes of the same old argument.
So who else wants a top tier class to receive more love... anyone?
<Cheeze|Work> i told iwi to start her own guild
<Cheeze|Work> "downward spiral"
<Cheeze|Work> instead of "uprising"
You seem all too happy to enter a squabbling match with me muergen. The only way you could be percieved as having an edge on me in this debate is if we both resorted to pointless insults.
Just so you know, here is an example of a pointless insult.
"Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that English isn't your strong suit."
I truly do not understand your question muergen. Looking at our posts in this thread it will be very obvious to most people that English is much more of a strong suit for me than it is for you. I wish that I could make you understand that a debate isn't about who wins, and it isn't about which person is arguing for what side, its about comparing two ideas using logic to determine which one holds more truth.
I have listed my reasons for implementing the Tsunayoshi weapons in QL's above 135, and I am content that I did a good job of representing them. I'll not be responding to any more of your rubbish posts muergen, I'm sorry we couldn't reach an agreement, but I am glad that I at least tried.
*edit, fixed a small typo
Last edited by Isisnorfret; Dec 30th, 2002 at 05:59:14.
Isisnorfret RK1 - Main
Me.Originally posted by Meurgen
So who else wants a top tier class to receive more love... anyone?
I also play an MP. Let me give you examples of other things that would annoy me.
Adding creation weapons to MP's, but making them so pathetic that no one would use them.
Adding Mez pets but making them so bugged that they aren't worth using.
Adding lines of nanos which can all be cast by 130th and then enduring dozens of levels of stagnation.
Any of this sound familiar? Just because enforcers are currently a good class, we should allow FunCom to offer us half-assed service? The difference between most of the enforcers who post on this board and you, Muergen, is that they would gladly lend their support to your MP causes, as opposed to trashing and trolling them.
How can you be so hypocritical as to condemn our request that they fully implement a project that is already completed, which would give enforcers some higher level weapon diversity, by saying that no other professions have weapon diversity...so enforcers shouldn't get it either. Please!
No one here has said that this issue is more important than other professions'. No one here has said ignore other, more important problems to fiddle with enforcers... we just want FunCom to actually finish implementing what they started. Why? Because if they don't do it now, while the change is fresh, it will never get done.
Wait. I take it all back. Obviously Muergen is in the most need of FunCom love, because he is obviously being driven mad by bitterness and envy. I guess that's what happens when you play an MP over 130th. Most of them are crazy... look at Thedeacon.
/hug Muergen
/comfort Muergen
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