OOC Quandry about MMORPG or MMOG?

[______________Atreyu]

Please be advised that this post is OOC.

This thread is mostly prompted by a comment from Bionitrous in the patch day forum, which has been closed so I couldn't reply there. The post I'm referencing was replying to a comment about how neutral towers are being taken out by clanners, due to the towers ease of access to clan areas, and how if they areas were easier to get to for omni then the omni would be jumping the towers.

"So, what you are saying is that this isn't a role-playing game but a great big persistant Team Fortress Classic where nothing matters but the colour of your flag?"

Fact of the matter is that I think by and large this above synopsis is true when it comes to PvP in this game. Thusfar I haven't seen anybody really "roleplay" their character in game, and it seems that its virtually impossible to avoid the ever present gank when attempting to PvP anything, much less RP a PvP anything. I've seen far more individuals who care only about levels, loot and PvP then any shred of roleplaying. For some reason a good number of these types seem to be fixers for some reason.. I guess my question to those in this forum is as players in the game, is one deluding themselves by thinking AO is actually an RPG?

What I mean by this is the following. Its been my experience that the draw of an RPG is the opportunity to for a time exist as something other then yourself, to step outside the normal boundries your capable of and enjoy being and acting in a manner which you normally don't. So given that concept, how many people actually play AO for that purpose? Its my belief that people play AO for the purpose of enjoying the game itself, and the company of others who play it, not the imersion in a fictional character who is full of quirks, likes and dislikes. In other words, people play AO because its fun, not because its a roleplaying game. I think that the RPG extention on games like AO is a misnomer because in reality games like AO that are for the most part static, which doesn't enable the characters to shape the outcome of things. True it can be adapted some, but ultimately the story is going to work out in the way the designers want, and will not necessarily be shaped by the actions of all playing, as would a paper and pencil RPG.

For example, if all omni players somehow managed to whip out all the guards in Tir, the city won't suddenly become under Omni control, what will happen is the guards will respawn and eventually the Omni will be repelled or get bored/tired.

Well I see I'm rambling a bit here so I'll just pose the questions I have.

1) How can a game that doesn't adapt quickly and often to player actions be considered an RPG?

2) How many people actually roleplay? I don't mean use RP as a front or excuse for dispacable actions, I mean RP, for example the lvl 200 who still uses his trusty lvl 30 gloves because its his lucky pair, and continually talks in an odd dialect representing his characters upbringing?

3) Would MM games like AO be better described as MMOG's Massively Multiplayer Online Games, vs the current MMORPG?

[Vixentrox]

OOC

You have some really good points. I think a lot of them can be true or false depending on who you ask. Since I RP most of the time, I consider it a mmoRPG. Those that are loot campers condiser AO something else. Those that only enjoy levels or PvP once again would call the game a different name. This forum has a ton of RPers that read it, even if they do not post much. But as you can see, their IS a decent RP community.

Personnaly, I generally hate camping for loot. Levels and experience are not very important to me any more. I have reached 167 with my main character but, I also have been playing since game launch. I'm usually IC. Vix sneezes when a sabretooth is near, she has nightmares, she has RP reason why she hates arenas, and is really a very well developed character. Unlike a lot of RPers I do enjoy occaisonal PvP. My RP reasons are clear. There is a war on!

RP is what you make it. Yes, there are game mechanics, non-RPers, and artificialites that you must work around. But it doesn't mean you can't RP for the joy of it. Look at the "Hawks and Doves" thread. All these people RPing out events then posting what went on from their perspectives. Does it have a major impact on the world at large? No. But then most ordinary individual people in RL don't have huge effects on the whole world at large either.

[LTK]

A few good points are hit on here, but the rash generalization of it is really what destroys the point.

Its my belief that people play AO for the purpose of enjoying the game itself, and the company of others who play it, not the imersion in a fictional character who is full of quirks, likes and dislikes. In other words, people play AO because its fun, not because its a roleplaying game.

You are absolutely correct, and at the same time totally wrong. Many people enjoy the game itself. Many others enjoy roleplaying. "People", as you say (I assume meaning absolutely everyone who plays AO) have fun. It's just a question of what is fun to one person, and what else is fun to another? You can argue statistics all you want, here are the basic truths if you look for them:

I see articles like yours happen a lot, and from reading it I can tell you this: You're looking for Roleplaying where Roleplaying is not bred. Going into the PvP areas and hoping to see someone deep into character is like going into Counterstrike hoping to meet a pretty girl.

RP does indeed happen on Rubi-Ka, but you have to realize there are different levels of it. The most deeply in-touch with their character personas can usually be found at clubs or social areas. Obviously, because that is the stage upon which social attributes make themselves readily apparent. It would be rather pointless to walk into the middle of a PvP zone and start roleplaying the character quirk of distrust of authority, or the knack of hating the color red. You'll start typing out your emote and get killed in the process.

No-one cares about your character traits or your roleplaying in the PvP zones, because that's where the action is. And that's not a bad thing. Roleplaying there would just be silly and rather deadly.

Personally, I play both types. Some people use the same character to roleplay in the zones where they can, and to PvP in the zones where they can. Others create alts, one for PvP/powerlevellings, one for roleplaying.

Integrating the two in a wholly crosslinked way is impossible, but a world can exist with plenty of both. That world is Rubi-Ka.

[Fixerben]

Yes, it is a total matter of perspective. I can find RP reasons to do anything that a nonRP person does. I help my friends Camp mobs for loot, and if you ask me why I'm doing it I could give you an IC response. I have found ways to do just about anything in game, and enjoy both playstyles while remaining in character. As I have said before Fixerben is very diverse and deep character, with a well thought out future and past. He has inner turmoil, as many real people do, and some of his inner turmoil foreshadows things to come in "The Shadowlands." ((The beams of light that eminate from his eyes and mouth when he gets real ticked off)).

I have the perspective of RPing everything that I do in game. No one knows what I am really like in RL, beleive me, I am nothing like my character. So remaining IC all the time, and juggling a few different personalities is fun to me. And I can make it work even when I hang around nonRPers. Just a matter of perspective.

[LTK]

I can find RP reasons to do anything that a nonRP person does. I help my friends Camp mobs for loot, and if you ask me why I'm doing it I could give you an IC response.

That's about the absolute closest you can get to truly integrating the RP with the non-RP parts of the world, and I applaud the effort. I do that as often as possible, and it can be very fun. A simple change of wording and--as you say--perspective can breath new life into the most mundane activity.

You're not "camping for l00t", you're "waiting for that ugly bastahd to come back outta his hole...and THIS time we're gonna nab 'im!"

[Dabblez]

I guess it's been pretty much all been said. Take a look at the
RP FAQ for further pointers.

[Ghiggles]

While I agree for the most part with everything Ive read, regardless of how much I may be backpeddling. I do think AO is more a MMOG. I have not been ingame as long as alot of the other people have

Hi my name is ___ Ive been addicted since March,2002. I stopped using for a little while but fell off the wagon..*sighs*

While AO has been my first MMORPG that Ive ever tried. I do agree with the posts above RP is what you make of it, while all my characters I play IC... and as sad as it sounds.. even my lvl 130 doctor gets lost, don't know anything about uber armor or good lvl-ing places ..Im reliant on those Im with to lead me to where I need to be to heal others , Concidering Ive been playing longer then a "n00b" no offence Ive once stated I often feel like a higher lvl n00b with my main character.

Ive also been told by some people that there is no rp in AO.... once upon a time I did believe that which was why I went away. I was invited to do some rp with a small group and suddenly it seemed with all my characters that RP ... well more like there were people to RP with.. meaning if someone asked any of my characters . "So where are you from?" ..and I awnsered .." well I was born in Newland City but got my own place finally in Borealis" They nodded and smiled and told me about where they grew up on Rubi-ka ... something as simple as that is Roleplaying no matter how insignificant to the storyline it may be. Im playing this to take a break from reality and be what Im not when I log out.

Ive also noticed alot more people walking ... not that I like walking all the time myself to me that is pretty damn cool, I know if my character is standing around and someone walks past her . She can say Hey how are you.. they may stop and awnser back or may not .
But before I ramble on like I normally do. If you havent read 'Hawks and Doves' like Vix pointed out please do ..its AMAZING. The level of creativity in that story is just ..well it makes me sit back pop up some popcorn and glue my eyes to the screen reading... The characters are brilliant..well their players are for their wonderful insight to their characters. I threw my lil Doc in there just well no real reason guess all the creative writing inspired me a bit. But it is DEFINATELY worth reading.

[Duzytato]

[OOC]

IMHO

AO is an RPG, plain and simple. Because people have the choice to RP or not RP doesn't mean its not an RPG. My real name is not Tifanyx, I made that name up (tribute to my wife actually) and I assumed the role of Tifanyx, an ugly looking nanomage. In game, I choose to speak as Tifanyx in an RP fashion, but sometimes I speak as the player behind Tifanyx. Either way, I'm walking around Rubi-Ka as a character I created, no one really knows what I look like, or my personal RL beliefs. A game that allows me to be someone I am not, is a Role Playing game.

In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter WHAT its called?

[UwensBack]

Does it matter? It should. If they bill it as a roleplaying game they shouldn't focus on PvP and eliminate the storyline.

[Lilyflie]

AO is about what you choose to bring to it. (as per sig) The game company conciders it a MMORPG, so I could use that as a basis for argument, but I won't because not all players view it that way. Regardless, we all have a right to be here and play the way we choose, as long as it does not grief or harrass the people who play in a different style.

nuff said imo

[____________Fakonamo]

I think there needs tpo be a better definition of a RPG vs just a Game. In any game you play, you "assume" a new persona. You exist in a digital world as an avatar. FPS games could be considered RPGs in some ways, since you really arent that super commando warrior. A NASCAR racing game could be considered RPG since you really arent a race car driver (well most of us arent).

So, what is a RPG and how does it differ from other games? IMHO a RPG is simply a game that encourages and provides ways for players to immerse themselves in a role, rather than simply playing a game. I dont think the term RPG needs to be mutually exclusive with non-RPG. Sure a puzzle game isnt a RPG, but all RPGs are also just games. You can have a RPG, like AO, that is also non-RP.

I beg to differ that RP cant be done in a PvP setting. I have several macros that I use during fights to RP so I dont have to type out anything. I have been "arrested" by other RPers in a PvP fight. I usually only PvP when I have a RP reason. If I run into someone who doesnt RP in a fight, thats OK also, I enjoy RPing even if its not reciprocated. If I die, I RP getting revenge (maybe I dont do it in PvP, but I get it one way or another) PvP is a great place for RP.

PvP and RP are NOT mutually exclusive! Rping in a fight/conflict is fun. I mean just RPing in a club gets old after a while!

The ability to do all that is what makes AO a RPG, even though its not required.