Low level PvP, is it worth it?

[___________Atrocious]

While getting a tad sick of the insanely boring missions with a bot that doesn't listen, I thought it was time for me to semi-retire my engy, and maybe pickup PvP again.

Last time I tried my hand at PvP, I made an very OEd enforcer stopped leveling at level 18 I think. Killed a whole bunch of people, lost a few times too, never got a title. I figured out why when Cosmick posted the thread about how title work. All I can say is DOH! Anyway. I got sick fast since when I won without outside buffs everyone complained that I was outside buffed, people kept running away, when I was outside buffed I felt like I cheated when I won eventho I know most people are outside buffed, and last but not least I got sick of the childish behavior.

So the 14.2 comes along, and I decided it was time to check out PvP again. So I don't insanely OE my trader, I decide to go for sta/psy armor, don't have a coat, and max OEd shotgun I can have, and ql 50 implants at level 25. The first guy I duel is a level 20 fixer. I killed him so fast I wondered what the hell. His comment was: "Damn, you didn't look that twinked". The only thing I had better than him was ql 50 implants where he had ql 30s. He took the loss like a man, and I though that Traders must be gods. So I take on a freshman enforcer a couple of leves above me. It's a fairly long fight eventho i manage to root myself instead of him a couple of times. But I never get him below about 95% health. Either a visual bug or outside heal/buffs. Cordial enough guy, no shouting you suxxor n00bi when I finally die. So I sit around waiting for rez effect to wear off(this is where I make my mistake I sit inside the arena to watch a fight, in the old days you used to be able to do this), some 15 level trader attacks me. WTF.. He wasn't supposed to be able to do that. Oh, well.. I just run to safety. Then I get a tell from another guy there that this level 15 trader is a gank and a general brat. So I decide to sit around and listen. The crowd has gotten more hostile and bratish since last time I pvped. Gankers flourish, outside buffs and heals seems to be the order of the day.

So basically it's still those with a rich sugardaddy or suggarmam who rule the lowbie PvP. So much for getting new players involved.

So my next questions are:

* Is it just the rule and accepted to have outside buffs?
* Is it pointless to PvP without them?

[____________Draekker]

I like low level PvP probably because I have never tried high level stuff. From what I have heard is that PvP in the upper 100's is just picking your fights. In low level is all a matter of your imp, your gear and your gun, and , yes, tactics. Anyone can just about beat anyone but there are dominant players. The fights are not incredibally short but don't go on forever either. I personally dont play with outside buffs when I duel. When I ask someoen to fight or they to the same I ask em if they do and to cancel them, there are ways of looking to see as well but most people are reasonably honest at least above Freshman. Its at the lower levels that you find the outside buffed gankers predominantly. I think playing with outside buffs screws up the balance of the game and makes it a match between who has the highest level friends to cast Behemoth, UVC (now mark of peril at 7%), various damage shields, etc.
Now if someone ganks me running (finally flying) to the grid in MMD or off guard in one of the arenas, thats my fault and I can usually run being a fixer. If they have outside buffs oh well, same thing if I see a juicy (someone with Rookie pretty much as they are scarely found at my level) target and go after him, its a risk I take. I would just like to see people be honest in duels. Ganking after you finish a fight is plain wrong, people who do that are lame but as you will find out do little harm at higher titles because they generally have no title or are merely freshmen. Walking into an arena and trying to flatten someone is fine, they are there and its their fault if they aren't prepared but don't call em a wimp and a n00b if they run. Lots of people will break these rules but don't use that as an excuse to do it yourself. I have managed to get Rookie playing fair like that and thats how I intend on getting to Apprentice. Oh and BTW if there are any Rookies from levels 32-51 send Draekker a tell in game, I need the fights.

[_______________Pahpa]

there were more people doing PVP pre lvl 50.

[Beartwo]

You all got what you wanted people. You asked for crit nerf and OE nerf.

The only way to function is to get outside buffs now, because I am not letting my alt deequip her rifle.

Outside buffs are a way to OE atm. and I think it has even been said by FC officials that this is the way the game is supposed to work. (Using the trader in team to wrangle so that all get a higher atk rating etc.)

Getting outside buffs is something that is available to all players!
I never saw the need for taking crits away since it was available to everyone, and before there are more whines, its quite possible for even a green lvl 20 agent to ask "higher lvl " players for buffs....and get them, for free!

If you cannot get buffed, you are either behaving rudely or just being a pain in the a**.

Beartwo never was a pvp character since the soldier nerfs killed most his abilities.
My alt is just about ready to start pvp`ing now. It takes a bit of work and diplomacy to get her ready (asking for buffs etc.), but its possible....and available to all!

But by all means.....keep whining about the game being unbalanced in pvp..... nerf the whole game into boredom.

[___________Atrocious]

Originally posted by Beartwo
You all got what you wanted people. You asked for crit nerf and OE nerf.

I never asked for a crit nerf, never really wanted OE nerf.

The only way to function is to get outside buffs now, because I am not letting my alt deequip her rifle.

Outside buffs are a way to OE atm. and I think it has even been said by FC officials that this is the way the game is supposed to work. (Using the trader in team to wrangle so that all get a higher atk rating etc.)

THx for answering my question. I will no longer have any qualms about getting outside buffs for my characters since it seems to me from what you are saying that everyone does it, and it's the new accepted way to OE.

Getting outside buffs is something that is available to all players!
I never saw the need for taking crits away since it was available to everyone, and before there are more whines, its quite possible for even a green lvl 20 agent to ask "higher lvl " players for buffs....and get them, for free!

If you cannot get buffed, you are either behaving rudely or just being a pain in the a**.

Beartwo never was a pvp character since the soldier nerfs killed most his abilities.
My alt is just about ready to start pvp`ing now. It takes a bit of work and diplomacy to get her ready (asking for buffs etc.), but its possible....and available to all!

But by all means.....keep whining about the game being unbalanced in pvp..... nerf the whole game into boredom.

Are you just a bit defensive?? Where in my post did I even mention that I wanted to nerf more. Hell, I don't care about the longetivity of this game. I just want to try out PvP again and make sure I can level the playing field. I got the money to back my lowbie alts up, I'm part of a big guild and can get all the buffs I wish.

The only reason I include my experiences is to find out if people have noticed that healthbars are bugged in Pvp,or if you notice someones healthbar not decreasing they are prolly outside healed or just insanly buffed. The secondary obejctive is to see if if I get mostly "yeah, your right it is this way", or "You just prolly had a bad day at the arena" responses.

[______________Alynie]

I've recently started spending a good amount of time in low level PvP (taking a break from PvP'ing with my main).

I've decided to go the route of always being self-buffed. I've found that there are plenty of people who PvP without a huge essence/rrfe/etc. Getting external buffs is somewhat frowned upon. If someone has them, everyone points that out in a rather negative fashion. Being self-buffed also makes any duel a lot more fun. My level 19 trader has enough NCU to get behemoth and rrfe, and I didn't even try that hard to boost my NCU total. Considering that most folks at that level do pathetic damage with the OE changes, it'll take forever to make a dent.

If you are PvP'ing for the sole purpose of getting a good title, or to win easily all the time, then you'll need to go beg for external buffs. In the end it's your choice.

Re: health bars, yes, they are still bugged. It still happens that your opponent's healthbar doesn't budge, and it's not because they have a huge essence/doc buff. I haven't noticed it happening quite as often lately though.

Yes, ganking, teaming and external healing does happen. It's one of those things that you just have to accept and not let it bother you. I've had plenty of duels lately where it seemed like my opponent was self-buffed, no one ganked, no one external healed and it was fun.

[___________Atrocious]

Originally posted by Alynie
If you are PvP'ing for the sole purpose of getting a good title, or to win easily all the time, then you'll need to go beg for external buffs. In the end it's your choice.

I want to fight fair, and by fair I mean that the playing field is somewhat even. I don't mind losing to someone who spent more time finding just the right implants and learn how to play their char, but fighting without outside buffs if everyone does it also makes no sense. I'm not in it for the titles, more something else to do than to try to coax a dumb pet through a mission. :-)

Re: health bars, yes, they are still bugged. It still happens that your opponent's healthbar doesn't budge, and it's not because they have a huge essence/doc buff. I haven't noticed it happening quite as often lately though.

I suspected it was a bug, but wasn't sure. Just wanted to get confimation.

Yes, ganking, teaming and external healing does happen. It's one of those things that you just have to accept and not let it bother you. I've had plenty of duels lately where it seemed like my opponent was self-buffed, no one ganked, no one external healed and it was fun.

I'm making my second attempt at trying to accept it, can't say I'll make it... But I gotta try. As of today it's less aggrevating than pet pathing. :-)

But this still makes me dumbfounded. Now one has said outside buffs are ok, and another one says no... Makes me wonder. Guess there are no definates.

Anyone got any tips for noticing outside buffs? Essence is faily easy to see, but other buffs as well. Is there a way to tell if someone gets outside heals?

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Plasmatiq
[B]

I never asked for a crit nerf, never really wanted OE nerf.




THx for answering my question. I will no longer have any qualms about getting outside buffs for my characters since it seems to me from what you are saying that everyone does it, and it's the new accepted way to OE.



Are you just a bit defensive?? Where in my post did I even mention that I wanted to nerf more. Hell, I don't care about the longetivity of this game. I just want to try out PvP again and make sure I can level the playing field. I got the money to back my lowbie alts up, I'm part of a big guild and can get all the buffs I wish.

The only reason I include my experiences is to find out if people have noticed that healthbars are bugged in Pvp,or if you notice someones healthbar not decreasing they are prolly outside healed or just insanly buffed. The secondary obejctive is to see if if I get mostly "yeah, your right it is this way", or "You just prolly had a bad day at the arena" responses.

My comments were not meant for you in specific, but as a general comment to all those who managed to whine this patch on us.
I am aware that a lot of people seem to look down on having outside buffs, but I have never once griped when I got killed by anyone who was buffed from the outside. I do exactly the same myself.

If it is agreed beforehand that the duel is without buffs then its different. MMD and 2HO are not Arenas though...if you go there you better be ready to fight.

[______________Alynie]

Yes, PvP in MMD/2HO is a completely different story from dueling in the Arenas.

The Arenas are generally seen as friendly contests between folks who want to test their skills or just have fun. That's why so many people have problems with ganking in the Arenas. Yes, Clan and Omni are at war, but the Arenas are more like a sporting stadium. External buffs are frowned upon, but definitely not against any set rules. Like any sport, you want the fight to be reasonably fair. If you and your opponent decide beforehand that external buffs are okay, then it's fine, and vice versa. If you want to fight self-buffed, mention it before the duel starts. Unfortunately, there will always be folks who don't play fair.

MMD/2HO are 25% zones and if you want to duel there, you better be prepared for anything. There are no rules. Ganking, teaming, healing, anything is fine. For some reason, there are people who think that the Arena rules still apply in MMD. So you'll get people who cry out about unfair tactics. 2HO/Camelot is a different story. In these zones, people will do anything they possibly can to gain an advantage, and that is perfectly acceptable as long they are not exploiting.

[____________Draekker]

People think that they have to be insanesly OE'ed. Frankly the Crit nerf sucked for PvM and they did it to stop us form leveling so damned quickly. I liked OE, honestly it didnt hurt PvM that much, my 83 agent just self equiped a ql 164 Disa, a step down from a 200 Stigma but its not a huge difference, I still get on teams with 160-170 missions and we are just fine. What it killed though, was traders with ql 130 Ithacas and lvl 30's wearing elite. If it effects us all there really isnt a problem with it in PvP. Really the only reason to use outside bufs is to beat everyone and get your titles really quickly. I am rather proud to say that I made apprentice last night, one of, if not the, first neutral to do so. I did it self-buffed everytime. The fact is, at higher titles, more people are self buffed. I also ask if the person I am fightingis self buffed, every rookie I had asked while trying to get apprentice we honest with me, while some said they had them, I asked them to remove them and then fight, they did. But the last guy I fought, Mobin, thought it was absurd when I asked and I was glad to see that I was the only one against using outside buffs. And honestly, it takes a lot of the fun out of the game to have to beg for new buffs every hour or so, I dont have a problem getting them but its seems kind of pointless.

About ganking: If you see someone lit up like a cristmas tree in MMD, don't go in the 25% and hope he wont attack you. You know hes got a 3 kinds of shields, behemeth, doc HP and a load of other things just waiting for soemone to stay in the zone a second too long. I stopped worrying about gankers when I was able to turn the table on them, they shot me, I ran off and healed and then I came back and kicked thier ass. The only time I died from a gank while I was rookie was when I was rooted and double teamed ( I got one of them mind you, and had I been smarter and killed the agent rooting me and not the MA, I would have had both =p) and when I had about quarter health and was a second too late while running to the grid from reclaim again in MMD. Ganking isnt a problem if you are smart enough to get around it. Step out of PvP when you start a duel and start away from everyone else so gankers don't see you and run over. Make sure your opponent knows that if you get ganked to stop attacking and even help kill the ganker.

[___________Atrocious]

Neutral and apprentice, that's an accomplishment. :-)

I don't want this to turn into a OE thread, but it really didn't change much for me. I've never been so hung up in my equipment that I had to always be in the edge. I have been lazy and I know that it's will be the reason why I will loose some PvP fights, and why I never leveled as fast as others. I very rarely Solo anymore, I only do highlevel missions with guildies. Then again most of us got better with the IPR. I think the critbuff thing sucked.

If I have learned anything from AO it's that the whiners get their way, sometimes that is the direction you want to take, other times it's opposite.

One more question:

From what I've read on these boards bracers seem to be the way to go at higher levels, are they as important at lower levels?

[___________Halestorm]

I think PvP must be divided into 2 categories before one can discuss it further.

1.Arena fights
2.WAR in political zones.

1. Here I consider outside buffs being a lame way of cheating. When I enter the arena and challenge someone to a duel I suspect the person to be honest, believe in him/her self and fight me without some insane outside HP/critt buff. I utterly refuse to fight ppl with outside buffs and stick to the selfbuffed ppl. By picking my fights like this ive been able to PvP with alot of joy as a nanomage NT!

2. This is totally different. We are after all at war, and we do anything to win. Here I consider it to be natural that ones side mates buff you in order to do as much damage to the other side. This is not suppoused to be a fair duel, this is bloody war. No rules, just mayham.


This is my view on the subject, wether you like it or not