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Thread: I can't believe you nerfed Soldiers..

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    For single mobs.
    But you are good at it right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    Depends on the build, although no soldiers are slouches.
    Soldier DD is probably fine, it's other profs DD that's not high enough comparatively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    Can't fire while moving and buying backpacks full of ammo bricks sure is fun, although ammo boxes have helped with it. Also, there's no real advantage to being ranged in PvM other than initiating the attack from farther away.
    If you can't fire while moving, then how did I kill Moxy and a horde of inf dynas with a Soldier? Oh that's right... specials.

    Also: Albatrum. DB2. Arid. DB Quest. Yep, no advantages to being ranged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    The fact that mobs now have unlimited range has severely limited that, especially if a mob decides it doesn't feel like running around.
    It's sure made roots and snares a hell of alot less useful in PvM. I'd love a fix to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    The team buffs are things soldiers would use by themselves, and are not casted for the benefit of the team - the designer merely let them be shared with the team. A soldier never goes, "Wow, I'm in a team, better cast augment fight."

    And if the team buffs are so great, why does everyone always want the soldier to disable their aura and give everyone RRFE?
    But people get the soldier BECAUSE of the buffs they can provide. I could care less if the soldier got the reflects himself, as long as the tank gets them.

    Also, people often get RRFE instead of the aura because RRFE is a one time cast. Proximity to the soldier, and the scenario where the soldier dies and the aura wears off are generally bad for the people who were taking advantage of the reflects.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    But you are good at it right?
    In a team environment where you have a competent person holding agg on the only mob, it really doesn't matter what their prof is if you have a smart doc. Of course, things like beast are an exception, but if you're relying on a soldier to tank endgame raid bosses something horrific happened to the enf - in which case they're the backup.

    You make it sound as if it's unreasonable that a soldier has any tanking capability.


    Soldier DD is probably fine, it's other profs DD that's not high enough comparatively.
    Soldier DD is fine, especially compared to other profs considering a soldier is little more than the weapon they use, lacking fancy tricks most other profs have. You make it sound as if soldiers should not output a high level of damage.

    If you can't fire while moving, then how did I kill Moxy and a horde of inf dynas with a Soldier? Oh that's right... specials.
    If you somehow managed to fire off specials without even pausing briefly, you're exploiting. How'd the jerky awkward pauses to try and reload between FAs go?

    Also: Albatrum.
    Poorly designed.

    DB2.
    The fact the red tower makes Aune heal while taking damage from ranged weapons isn't an advantage.

    Arid.
    Many towers in Arid Rift are designed at differing elevations and just around corners, often requiring a ranged character get in range of the snare effect.

    DB Quest.
    Being ranged has a ton of advantages at the drill sergeant camp where you need to get within melee range of the minibosses and agg them selectively to not alert too many adds, and at the Informant when you're pinned in at point-blank range with all those mobs.

    It's a huge advantage at the end of the checkpoint section, but last time I checked it's located in a part of the world where you can mech up.

    It's sure made roots and snares a hell of alot less useful in PvM. I'd love a fix to that.
    Me too.

    But people get the soldier BECAUSE of the buffs they can provide. I could care less if the soldier got the reflects himself, as long as the tank gets them.
    This isn't an argument. You make it seem as if it's a bad thing that soldiers are recruited for their benefits to the team - when that's the basis everyone is recruited on.

    Also, people often get RRFE instead of the aura because RRFE is a one time cast. Proximity to the soldier, and the scenario where the soldier dies and the aura wears off are generally bad for the people who were taking advantage of the reflects.
    While it's true people get RRFE in case they lose proximity to the soldier, that's not the whole story. RRFE in a team situation is not a one-time cast - it's a five time cast. When the team is relying on RRFE, the soldier cannot use their aura as it overwrites RRFE - leaving everyone in the team protected but the soldier. It's pointless for the soldier to RRFE themselves because if they cast a mirror shield, RRFE cancels and cannot be recast until 2 minutes after the mirror shield was cast. This is generally bad for the soldier providing the reflects people take advantage of, and it's worse for them the lower their level.
    Last edited by Berinda; Jan 4th, 2010 at 10:05:46.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    How'd the jerky awkward pauses to try and reload between FAs go?
    Can't you reload while running? Just stop attacking for a sec.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod9001 View Post
    Yeah, because they are always up and it's OH! so hard to clear 5 blockers, even without microphone.


    he said 30k in 5s, meaning he was refering to the soldiers ALPHA, which has a 2 min cooldown, just like the engies coon, funny that eh? but yes it is true the NM coon is alot longer than 2 min but if you are talking about 1v1, why wouldnt it be up when the soldier alpha? the giant blue aura screaming IM GONNA ALPHA NOW!!!!!!! isnt enough to give you a hint? as for clearing blockers, sure we can break them-ish but when you alpha they will be up, if you have to break them first before you alpha, its kinda far away from 30k in *5* seconds dont you think

  5. #65
    Reading soldiers posting here trying to make others understand that "no soldiers aren't easy pvp mode" -> never get enough of it!SO funny.

    The only thing that could get close to this is a 220 top equip fixer complaining about his evades/defence.

    Go on soldier! prove your point!

    Gotta love the "dude i gotta keep BP of boxes of ammo m8! NERF!1!!1"
    There seems to be problems with the internet itself!

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    Can't you reload while running? Just stop attacking for a sec.
    Yeah, but when kiting Moxy, which is what Voltron was referring to, because of the mobs returning to spawn once out of combat, mobs having infinite range, and Moxy being easy to outrun, if you drop agg and overshoot she resets.

    Kiting Moxy requires perfect timing and is all about player skill. Also, as for the argument this is some kind of soldier-only advantage, one of my old friends who was a fixer kited Moxy all the time to sell the loot.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    I suggest you try playing trader/nt infested BS as a soldier before you try to make it sound like you know something.
    Oh, the horror! You know these 2 can hurt others too, for some it's even worse than for sols. As usual 'sols are nerfest' topics are just for fun and should be posted in reets instead.
    i R not spik engrish

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by SSK View Post
    Oh, the horror! You know these 2 can hurt others too, for some it's even worse than for sols. As usual 'sols are nerfest' topics are just for fun and should be posted in reets instead.
    How many other than sols give traders 100% reflect if they try to defend themselves?

    ps. I'm quite aware that nt's and traders are overpowered in many many ways, not just against soldiers. They need a nerf, plain and simple.

  9. #69
    Ok, seriously. What is the topic of this current argument?

    Seems to me that some are saying that soldier is OP. Then soldiers say that they aren't OP for various reasons. Then others say the soldiers think they are "teh nerfest".

    This to me is just idiotic. Explaining why a profession is not OP is a completely different thing from saying that a prof is "teh nerfest".

    Soldier is not OP and it's not "teh nerfest". How good soldier is depends almost entirely on what professions the other side has. Evaders or not. CC'ers or not. Nemesis professions or not. People that know how to play AO or not.

    Before I leveled my soldier to endgame I had a personal opinion about soldiers. That's the personal opinion of a trader no less. As a trader I had this mindset that soldiers were overall pretty powerful. I knew they had some obvious weaknesses, which I took advantage of when facing them with my trader (not even counting BR here), but I had this mindset that their strong sides would balance or outweigh the weaknesses.

    Now that I play this soldier of mine, being a soldier is different from how I thought it would be, both good and bad. Soldier can definitely be a VERY frustrating profession to play. What makes soldier worth it in the long run are the times when you are left to your own devices (as in not nemesis'ed to death) and the professions your side faces aren't evaders or spamming roots/blinds or removing your reflect. Nerfing this positive side of the scale will make a soldier frustrating to play almost all the time. There's enough frustration already but you really do need to play a soldier in order to really grasp that fact. Mental images is not enough in this case.

    Soldier is either good or bad. It depends on the situation. This is usually a 50/50 thing. When you enter BS you have a 50% chance of doing well and a 50% chance of doing badly. The frustrating part is that when you do badly it is mostly because of things that are out of your control. It's like your player-skills are being overshadowed completely by "destiny". Destiny being whatever FC decided should happen on their profession-designing table. Either you run into someone that you can't land specials on or you run into someone that you can land specials on. Either you run into someone that can "nemesis" you to death or you don't. Either you run into someone that roots you and just leaves you standing there or you don't. Either the other side has blockers or they don't. And so on and so on.

    There are more professions than I can count on one hand that I would play instead of soldier in endgame PvP and if people here actually think soldier is OP then half the professions in AO are OP, many of them more so than soldiers. It makes me wonder what kind of twisted mental image people have of soldiers that makes them say such things.

    I'm not immune to twisted mental images myself though. As a trader I formed mental images of other professions. Then when I play soldier I find out just how different the reality of those other professions could be. Different toolset vs the same targets = different results, obviously. Individual players that I had troubles with on my trader would go down like a sack of potatoes vs my soldier. Individual players that I couldn't touch at all with my soldier would go splat when I used my trader.

    The fact is, AO has turned into a rock paper scissor game and this AO-community is being idiotic about it. You whine about the fact that it's a rock paper scissor system yet you have NO problem whatsoever in using this rock paper scissor system to your advantage when talking on these forums. Whenever it suits you, you will talk about the strong sides of another profession while completely ignoring the weaknesses. When it suits you, you will talk about the weaknesses of your own profession(s) while completely ignoring its strengths.

    If you guys don't look at the whole picture, your comments are worthless. At least to me they are.
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Jan 4th, 2010 at 20:04:30.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    How many other than sols give traders 100% reflect if they try to defend themselves?
    How many caster classes can survive under GTH?
    i R not spik engrish

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    The fact is, AO has turned into a rock paper scissor game
    Exactly what I have been saying in all my posts since the release of the nemesis nanos and before that abot orbital strike and a number of other things.




    This is the exact opposite of balance. It has nothing to do with skill as you said. And since funcom pretty much refuses to even comment on the iWin nanos they are either a) as stupid as the ppl on these forums or b) too lazy or too poor to fix the crap.

    Which in my eyes makes all this talk about balance hypocritial into the extreme.

    Harsh words yes. But they deserve it. All they needed to do is to comment the feedback they've gotten on these iWin stuffs. They've had years to do so but they wont. So they deserve to hear it.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by SSK View Post
    How many caster classes can survive under GTH?
    You're preachin to the choir here man. It's overpowered to the umpth degree.

    If I have to answer my reply would be mp probably.


    Your turn to answer my question now.

  13. #73
    @Berinda:
    Not going to answer to all what you said, because others tackled most points.
    Just want to point that I haven't bought xan yet... and by all this, xan simply looks to be as tailored as db, alb, etc for soldiers... only that none were tailored with soldiers in mind. So I wasn't referring to xan... heck, barely know anything about it.
    Ams, high hp, nice dmg and buffs, ranged and able to kite etc just pwns in pvm.

    Just so there is no confusion: this is about pvm... I was on the other side for pvp, saying I don't see soldiers as op there. And frankly, most of us don't care much about pvm. And well, soldiers do cost more to equip than a lot of professions (and certainly nts)... so I'm not too concerned about them being great at pvm.
    My point about pvm sure has been proven by now though.

    But that isn't the point of this thread. Back to the subject ^^.
    There are no problem that an absence of solution could'nt solve

    Wielder of the "IWin" button.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    Soldier is not OP
    survey says wrong!

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    ....snip....
    Welcome to the Dark Side.
    Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Because we said so.
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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by SSK View Post
    How many caster classes can survive under GTH?
    But thats the intention isn't it? It's a soldier, surriviabillity is inherently diferent by the profession.

    Not sure I would call soldier caster class.

    Also, as for the argument this is some kind of soldier-only advantage, one of my old friends who was a fixer kited Moxy all the time to sell the loot.
    Can do it smoothly on agent too, using snareperks.

  17. #77
    This thread should be any where but soldier forums
    according to this thread soldier can kill any thing under 5s since hardly u can find any one moving with more than 30k hp but ofc we will exclude :
    -engi coz blockers , cocon
    -Mp 99% using shield and nm they also have cocon , blockers and kinda unperkable
    -NT they got NBG/NS
    -trader they got NBG too
    -keepers oO they got cocon and crap loads of heal perks/dimach and not bad AAD/dodge we can't cap fa w/o debuffing them which take 9sec . . .
    -ma we barly can land any thing on them and they mostly outlast the ams and alpha us after
    -fixers mostly same as ma
    -crats mostly same as ma
    -shades mostly same as ma add to this they drain our AR to enhance their AAD/dodge
    -advi yea we can do that if limber/dof/cocon are down and they were drained so they can't heal and
    and we were lucky enough to land our fa in those 5sec . .
    -enforcer mb green one if he didn't had his cocon up thats from endgame full equiped soldier
    well this will leave the only 2 profs that any one can kill them in 5sec or they will not die which is doc and agent other proffs got disabler nanos we don't have this if u counting RI most of us don't use it
    thats about the current situation


    what going to happen according the inc changes
    1 - Reposit and parry will be reworked and u will see matrix ma/keep/shade mb enf too who jump in the air dodge dodge 30 bullet and parry 10 and catch the other 10 and throw them in our face .
    2 - we will lose our alpha ability which is the only thing we currently have and imo is the best skill in the game to fire ur perks along with the 3 specials during ur target heal recharge while swapping ur weapon and finally FC decided to remove that from the game and make the game like other crappy games press all the keys spam ur stuff and watch ur target dying or die urself coz the ur target did spame more keys than u , really WTF FC think by removing the alpha ability from the game
    3 - we going to lose RE perks too and there is ppl who saying enough with fa/burst for soldiers dmg i am ok with burst at least it land most of the time but fa no matter how AR/fa u twink it
    miss's/get blocked more than landing the only prof u can always cap fa on is doc and agent/enf/keeper after debuffing them
    4 - AS itself will be nerfed so swamping to carbine for AS mode vs evaders will not be available and those who think that ma is dmged from AS nerfing are so wrong actually ma and all evaders gaining alot hundred time what they will lose from nerfing AS , and agents their self have high AS enough to still land so the only one left dmged from the AS nerf is soldier's and few fixers mb shades who relied on it to alpha too .


    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Last edited by randomalpha; Jan 5th, 2010 at 10:57:29.

  18. #78
    I want a rollback to pre-LE..

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Wow. Thanks for the new sig.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  20. #80
    This forum makes the special ed class look normal.

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