Black Market - From Envisioned List

[________________7084]

Hi, i have a few suggestions and queries about the blackmarket, and i just thought id post them to see what you all think.

First off, i love the idea of a blackmarket, thank you Funcom!, ive been trying to RP a little with my fixer lately, but ive come to realise that it is impossoble due to two things:

The lack of players who don't RP, or at least co-operate at all. I don't mind non-RPers, but people could at least try a little.

The fact that the fixer doesn't live up to his dodgy description. At this moment there is nothing illegal, nothing i can get that others can't, no running from Mr Law. The only thing dodgy with my character is my fashion sense.

So, that is why i got excited when i first read about the blackmarket shops, now, a few suggestions:

Make the actual shops, NPCs, its hardly likely you are gonna buy illegal gear from a terminal.

Make the NPCs stylish, its a small point but it would add to the atmosphere tons. Make them wear shades, black trenchcoats, make them look dodgy.

I personally believe that the shops should either be underground installations, or in the grid. I like the grid, you blend in with the crowd, giving it a more underworldy feel.

Make the illegal items bought worthless in proper vending machines. They are illegal right? The machines will not accept them. However, make the items worth something to your character, or others.

I think there will be a need to introduce new items. Dodgy items, that are better than their legal QL counterpart but a little less reliable.

I hope you liek some of my suggestions, all feedback is appreciated.

Now onto the million dollar question:

Who gets access to this blackmarket?

I had another look through the descriptions in the manual of each profession. Although you may think my opinion is biased, i truely think that only fixers should be able to access this blackmarket. Just go and read their description, no other class comes close to fitting the blackmarket idea. Some people may think traders should get access, but ive always thought of traders as...... traders, nothing dodgy, just buying cheap, selling high. IMHO i don't think traders should get access. Flame me if it will make you feel better.

"Operates on the edge of the law, acquiring anything on demand if the price is right, and works as an intermediary in the underworld of Rubi- Ka." Fixer descrition

It fits perfectly you have to admit.

Ok, tell me what you think, who knows perhaps maybe my best buddy Cosmik will reply!

[Teknolord]

My point of view on this blackmarkets:
First of all, i REALLY dont hope it will be some useless crap like the summon-line fixers got... BAH BAH BAH!
I hope you can find items not found in shops, e.g the nanos which are REAL hard to get etc. No idea how prices will be set on this, though, i see arguments both for and against high prices: If its rare and unique stuff, i wouldnt mind paying high prices, but then again, if im about to get someone else this stuff, i cant make a profit on it if i have to buy expensive and sell with no profit, or even with loss...

I _do_ support the idea of this items to be worthless in shops etc, and to be kinda unique stuff not found elsewhere.

When it concerns the part of who are supposed to have access to this market:
- Fixers: Absolutely!
- Traders: to some degree yes, coz a lot of traders wouldnt mind buying illegal stuff and passing it on..
- Agents: Heck no. Unless they go undercover and pretend to be fixers
- Martian artist: err.. NO!
- Enforcer: No.
- Soldier: No.
- Meta's: no no no.
- NT's: no.
- Engineer: NO. Keep em away from this.
- Docs: no way. Unless they are some kinda docs trying to sell illegal drugs
- Bureacrats: Nah.
(Did i forget someone now? Hope not...)

OH!
Another idea on how this should work: One thing which is impossible to sell to shops, and few if any players wanna buy hacked pills, blister packs, nanocritters and charged fingers: PLEASE let these items be sold to shops in this black market!

OH OH!
Another idea:
Maybe set up a UNIQUE mission term in these shops, where u can get REAL SPECIAL missions? YAY! That would be COOOOoooOOOOOL!

[Blade / Silke X]

ahh finally I can feel this game is turning into what I wanted....black market.....aaaaahhh

[peterrjg]

Why wouldn't the bureaucrat be in on the black market? Nothing goes down in Dodgyville without the kickbacks to the crat!

[Teknolord]

Originally posted by Syzygium
Why wouldn't the bureaucrat be in on the black market? Nothing goes down in Dodgyville without the kickbacks to the crat!

Why?
When did government and local official, PAPERMOVERS, go dodgy and use underworld contacts, markets etc?

bah..

[Teknolord]

Whats a crat supposed to do there? Sell illegal stolen paperclips and copypaper?

[Teknolord]

Have u crats gone TOTALLY mad?
Can't u envy to let the fixers have ANYTHING special for JUST THEM??

[____________Ejeckted]

I gotta argue for the Traders too on this . .
not just because i play one, but because from a RP persective
it's the only way to make the Trader more than a buff machine.
Once the over-equiping changes go thru (making wrangles
no longer as sought after), without truely profitable tradeskills
the Trader is going to have a tough time making money.
(now please dont shout about how all us traders are already
too rich etc .. i wrangle people for 'whatever it's worth to you'
and im not a rich guy ..)
Traders have a tough time soloing, to those dumping IP
into tradeskills green mobs are almost impossible,
cant sneak, and dont have the HP/speed to blitz.
(fixers with grid armor will forever be the kings of runnig missions)
I like the idea of a blackmarket to fatten our wallets somehow.
No idea what FC is intending, but if i can somehow obtain an item
at a lower price than other players and then sell it for more,
then that sounds just like the desciption I heard of 'Trader' in
the character creation room to me. If the big money items like
Yalmahas weren't nodrop then perhaps our complit buffs would
make us good middle-men but since complit affecting pricing was
nerfed into almost no difference a long time ago that strategy
hasnt played out .. We need something .. a blackmarket might do it.
Perhaps a blackmarket system could be complex enough
that both fixers and traders could have unique roles in it . .
what if the special items were a special kind of 'nodrop',
where only Fixers could purchase them, but the Fixers could
only trade them to Traders (with whatever markup they agreed upon)
and then Traders could sell them on to the general population,
(marked up again) at which point they could not be traded/sold
by any other profession.

make sense?

of course, an agent in FP may be able to exlpoit the system,
so perhaps this ability should be disabled like engie pets etc.
even with all the conceal nerfs the ability to sneak still makes
them the richest profession in game.
(trust me, noone tips like an agent for which im happy about,
they are my best wrangle customers, but that buisness is coming to an end)

I started a Trader bc they were supposed to be the richest class in game .. "more interested in making money than fighting" is what the voiceover told me .. but now i find myself poorer than any profession who can still solo/sneak/blitz a mission and relying on the kindness of the more combat capable to survive .. not really the independant merchant I was hoping to be

[Teknolord]

I wont go into the complaints you have on the trader, but it doesnt compare to the impression i got of em in combat/missions..
Anyways, we seem to think alike on the issue regarding black markets. Traders and fixers can somewhat fill eachother out there, like enforcer&docs for example.
Would be nice to see some features or possibilites in this market area which would both benefit and require AND favor 2 professions.. Fixers getting and hacking items, selling em to traders, traders doing their stuff with it, etc..

[peterrjg]

Originally posted by Teknolord

Why?
When did government and local official, PAPERMOVERS, go dodgy and use underworld contacts, markets etc?

bah..

I hope that's tongue-in-cheek Teknolord, 'cos that's EXACTLY what happens in a lot of governments. In fact, some elements of government would be ineffective without contacts in the underworld.

[________________7084]

Whether or not governments are corrupt or not is really beside the point. Ok there may be some dodgy negotiations going on, but surely not dodgy items. And anyway, i think bereaucrats were supposed to be completely above board, nowhere in the description does it say anything about corruption, lets get the existing description sorted befroe we start adding to it!

[Teknolord]

Why not give crats HoT, as i know lotsa people working as papermovers have some first aid courses via work...... And why not give them hard stamina and str buffs, coz lotsa people who work in offices work out at the local gym too! And also give them hacker buffs, cos i know papermovers who can use computers! (...And the list goes on...)




Syzygium, to use your own point of arguments:
- Soldiers should have access, since many soldier go from soldier to torpedo work/thugs. Same with enforcers.
- Agents, since they have to deal with underworld areas.
- Docs, since some docs sell drugs illegal
- Martial artits, since they originally are ninjas, and ninjas are assasins, and m.a's can be used as hitmen.
- Engineers, as lotsa engineers make surveillance and spying devices
etc.....

[_______________Bfire]

In my opinion only fixers should have access to the blackmarket...i can see where your coming from with the trader idea, but isn't a fixer just a trader a bit scewed tward the darker side...traders and fixers both want to get ahead...traders do it through conventional and fixers through non-conventional

B

[_______________Garzu]

Why should Fixers be the only ones with access? Or let me put it like this: Why should not the other profs have access? Cant we talk to criminal ppl? Of course we can, thats why everybody should be able to access the black market. But, fixers should get a discount on all goods bought, because of their good knowledge to that kind of stuff, better contacts etc.. and maybe access to more vendors. But everybody should have the opportuinty to use the blackmarket, thats the way things work RL too.

Anyway, those that should be forbidden access is Omnis, they live under strict rules, but if they get access, they should be punished hard if caught: Ban for at least a week... Seriously, omnis should be punished if caught, loose creds, items etc..

[Blade / Silke X]

Im just happy that there will be a black market.....I dont care if traders dont get direct access to it...although I would like it...meow

[Teknolord]

We rule there, we make the laws if any, we decide who get access to our network, we decide all, we 0wn, YOU dont.

[peterrjg]

This is how it works. I, bureaucrat, am sitting in my office with my C3P0 in the corner. I hear through the pipeline that Mr Fixer is up to dirty deeds in the underworld. I have two choices. I can report him to the authorities or I can be bought to turn a blind eye to it.
I need the cash so I pursue option 2. To guarantee Mr Fixer's freedom from the cooler, Mr Fixer pays me a percentage of his take.

If Mr. Fixer reneges on his deal, I send the Enforcers in to lean on him. If that doesn't convince Mr. Fixer to cough up, I send the MA Ninjas in to correct his ways. Or the MP's in to curse him, or the NT's to burn his house down, the Engineers to disassemble his household fixtures, the Doctors to poison his food and water, etc.

Mr. Fixer should then see the errors of his ways and understand the food chain in question here.


Yes, all the above is a joke, but, this sort of thing does happen in the real world...dunno about MP's cursing though.

[________________7084]

Originally posted by Syzygium
This sort of thing does happen in the real world...dunno about MP's cursing though.

Yeah, but Rubi-Ka is far from a real world. I know you were joking, but 90% of that stuff, can't be done, and probably won't be able to be done. I think the part that people are missing, is that fixers are supposed to be the actual blackmarket people themselves, but, since FC haven't put in any dodgy items, or stuff only fixers can get their hands on, they need to implement them somehow. The blackmarket should allow fixers to buy the goods they need to fill their role, other profs should think of the fixers as the blackmarket, as if the real one didn't exist. Surely this would be best?

IMO i think most of the items sold in the blackmarket shops should be trade items, useful to other classes. Garzu asks why all professions shouldn't have access to the blackmarket. This would completely ruin the idea of a blackmarket, my fixer wouldn't be dodgy, he couldn't sell stuff to others. A discount wouldn't help, we need items others can't get. Fixers ARE the blackmarket!

[Teknolord]

Whatt really, really, really, REALLY REALLY annoys me, is that this market is supposed and intended to give a certain profession access so their professions feels more like the profession it is: Somewhat criminals. Fixers are on the edge of law, its sole purpose is to be shady, dodgy, somewhat criminal. The NAME of the fixer defines what it is! No matter what you say on how you can adapt another profession or what it can do, its nowhere said that enforcers, docs, nt's, traders, no profession what so ever are "working on the edge of the law". So please keep all other professions out of this, its NOT FOR THEM. If you still mean your arguments are viable for other professions to use this, then take it the other way: Fixers can have access to enforcers things, agents have access to docs things, etc etc, etc..

If any other profession wants access to the shady underworld, then do it the way supposed: go THROUGH FIXERS, WHO FIX THIS FOR YOU. ITS STATED IN THE INFO ABOUT FIXERS, THAT THEY FIX THE THINGS PEOPLE NEED!

Oh, and last:
If every profession gonna have access to this, then the purpose is gone. We all got regular shops etc, so if all should have access to a different market, then could FC/AO just add this to the regular shops.


It saddens me that non-fixers argue about this, and whine to have access to something intended to be unique for fixers.. It really, really, really saddens me....

[Buroo]

Blackmarket is envisioned as Fixer thing. Its very good idea.

Other professions will have also good ideas and improvements, but if this is gonna be "true" () , hope it would be just Fixers' thing.

Thats it.