Friday with Means - October 23rd, 2009 - Perpective and Party

[Vassilis]

Well just as predicted the day after the party the Grind is emptysauce... like the game itself.

You guys need a bigger dev team, or the engine will be released when we have 100 players left.

Step 1. Merge the Servers
Step 2. Advertise new game engine
Step 3. If, and I stress IF AO gets enough people to warrant a second server again simply reactivate the turned off one and offer paid-points xfers.

This.

[Windguaerd]

You guys need a bigger dev team, or the engine will be released when we have 100 players left.

Step 1. Merge the Servers
Step 2. Advertise new game engine
Step 3. If, and I stress IF AO gets enough people to warrant a second server again simply reactivate the turned off one and offer paid-points xfers.

Did you just joined the game?... cause I've been here since the 2001 beta days, and you are.... maybe #1329473 to predict the end of AO due to lack of players. Servers are still up, people still play, I see new players coming in every day, people leveling every day, same as before. DNW seems to have a problem, but not active over there so I can't really say how their community there is handling it.

Step 1. RK1-RK2 merge is unlikely to happen, because there are some people who have an unfounded grudge against the "other" server or think their server to be "superior" and won't want to switch. Another reason is notum bases, those can't be transferred, which means that a force reboot of all fields would be required and that will upset a lot of FC customers.

Steo 2. Means already said that once the engine is out and working as intended, advertising will be done. Why waste funds they need now FOR the engine, to advertise it before it's ready?

Step 3.Already answered.

If you want more devs, dig into your own pocket and hire some, but then FC probably will turn them away for not being familiar with the crazy old engine code or the dreamworld engine which only in-house coders are familiar with.

Means has done more than all previous GD's together (he's got AO in the best shape in the history of the game), so I think maybe... perhaps, we should let a game director who has been a dev for 5 years here... do his job.

[shadowgod]

Did you just joined the game?... cause I've been here since the 2001 beta days, and you are.... maybe #1329473 to predict the end of AO due to lack of players. Servers are still up, people still play, I see new players coming in every day, people leveling every day, same as before. DNW seems to have a problem, but not active over there so I can't really say how their community there is handling it.

except that, year after year, ever since SL launch, the player base has been in massive decline. you dont have to be some hard-core live-only-to-play gamer to notice this. AO is for all practical descriptions, a ghost town compared to how things were even 2 years ago. and this is taking all new zones into account.

[Windguaerd]

except that, year after year, ever since SL launch, the player base has been in massive decline. you dont have to be some hard-core live-only-to-play gamer to notice this. AO is for all practical descriptions, a ghost town compared to how things were even 2 years ago. and this is taking all new zones into account.

It's because of the new zones, that the playerbase is more spread out.

NW got people out of cities, SL got people out of RK, AI got people back onto RK for axp, LE got them more into PvP and more into RK, LoX got people back into SL due to the upgrading of old Inf/Pande phatz.

[SoldiTwo]

... he's got AO in the best shape in the history of the game ...

That would be a boxed retail version, but maybe ... with the new engine ... we will see a Gold Version with all addons incl. 60 days free playtime.

[Rktim]

Gah ffs i missed it >.<

You guys sucketh at PR some times, i checked the luncher like 3 days ago and there was no mention of it there so i went "Meh probably next weekend then", little did i know that kentai had posted in the Community Corner... and seriously, if you even click on "Community Corner" on anything but a weekend you have to much freaking free time on your hands ok? =P

[Windguaerd]

That would be a boxed retail version, but maybe ... with the new engine ... we will see a Gold Version with all addons incl. 60 days free playtime.

Ok, bottom line, is that froobs dl the small client, if they subscribe THEN they get the large client with all expansions even if they just get SL.

The current special is ALL expansions + 30 free days for $9.99, I don't think any MMO offers the core game + all expansions + 30 days for less than $20.

The new engine will give the marketing department to highlight the new graphics engine to make AO more attractive visually while the other aspect which attracts gamers (gameplay) will also be shows as updated (new content, prof rebalance, many bugs fixed, etc).

Marketing is not cheap, it required time and effort and that = $$$ which right now, is needed to go towards the dev team so they can finish the engine + other things like prof rebalance which probably will require code changes... and last time I checked the AO devs don't work for free. They got bills and families to support.

Why so many people want to promote a product which is NOT READY? Finally FC has learned the lesson after MANY MANY screwups... NOT do to that, and NOW players are asking them to do exactly what we've been protesting for years for them to stop...

Either wait for the cook to finish the mean properly, or rush him and risk getting Salmonella or something else that will get you sick... me, I like to enjoy a good mean so I will wait for Colin and the dev team to deliver a finished product.

[SoldiTwo]

... Why so many people want to promote a product which is NOT READY? Finally FC has learned the lesson after MANY MANY screwups... NOT do to that, and NOW players are asking them to do exactly what we've been protesting for years for them to stop...

Either wait for the cook to finish the mean properly, or rush him and risk getting Salmonella or something else that will get you sick... me, I like to enjoy a good mean so I will wait for Colin and the dev team to deliver a finished product.

Em, well let's see - I wrote "with the new engine". Where did I write put the "ugly AO" aka old Engine on a dvd now and release a gold version?
1. new engine --> 2. release gold version on disc

[erozc]

Did you just joined the game?... cause I've been here since the 2001 beta days, and you are.... maybe #1329473 to predict the end of AO due to lack of players. Servers are still up, people still play, I see new players coming in every day, people leveling every day, same as before. DNW seems to have a problem, but not active over there so I can't really say how their community there is handling it.

Step 1. RK1-RK2 merge is unlikely to happen, because there are some people who have an unfounded grudge against the "other" server or think their server to be "superior" and won't want to switch. Another reason is notum bases, those can't be transferred, which means that a force reboot of all fields would be required and that will upset a lot of FC customers.

You seriously think that the "grudges" of RK1 vs RK2 are anything but forum pvp tools? More to the point, nobody would switch over, everyone would just be migrated to RK0. Tower field ownership changes anyway, so one big bang and new opponents to PvP with would probably be just the ticket for NW fans. With mailing system in the works, it would seem apparent that player shopping could be made based on a delivery system, enabling shops to work in instanced cities. Then we could just do away with cities on RK completely. Sure, current tower/city owners should be refunded for their costs on tradeskilled towers / owned buildings, but that shouldn't be a huge issue.

A server merge would be really amazing. I miss those times when West Athens was teeming with life. Even Old Athens and Borealis Lag City seem barren these days, and it isn't just because the player base is spread out.

[haxi]

It's because of the new zones, that the playerbase is more spread out.

NW got people out of cities, SL got people out of RK, AI got people back onto RK for axp, LE got them more into PvP and more into RK, LoX got people back into SL due to the upgrading of old Inf/Pande phatz.

New zones don't have an effect on your buddy list do they?

[vallikat]

New zones don't have an effect on your buddy list do they?

My friends list is longer now than it ever has been. It is more typical than not that I have to scroll to see all of my current online friends. I guess my friends are just more loyal to AO than yours are. That doesn't mean that AO is dying though.

[fireduckjzz]

Hm, everyone that's complaining how about you make a game and keep it running for 8 years, then you can get en engine up right away, balance all the professions, and fix it every time there's a problem. What do you people not think he has a personal life and this is all he does? Xan just came out a little while ago, new items drop from UPH, and the grind was just released, and now it's nearing the holidays, give the man a break. Things don't happen over night, things will come eventually, he doesn't need everyone else adding more stress, I'm sure he wants the engine up as well, along with all the profs to be balanced as much as you do.

[Windguaerd]

New zones don't have an effect on your buddy list do they?

I have more friends online now that a year ago, mostly... NEW PLAYERS.

[Windguaerd]

You seriously think that the "grudges" of RK1 vs RK2 are anything but forum pvp tools? More to the point, nobody would switch over, everyone would just be migrated to RK0. Tower field ownership changes anyway, so one big bang and new opponents to PvP with would probably be just the ticket for NW fans. With mailing system in the works, it would seem apparent that player shopping could be made based on a delivery system, enabling shops to work in instanced cities. Then we could just do away with cities on RK completely. Sure, current tower/city owners should be refunded for their costs on tradeskilled towers / owned buildings, but that shouldn't be a huge issue.

A server merge would be really amazing. I miss those times when West Athens was teeming with life. Even Old Athens and Borealis Lag City seem barren these days, and it isn't just because the player base is spread out.

There are several serious issues.

Duplicate names and character #ID's...each server has it's distinct characters database going into 10 digits. By changing the characters #ID all your old friends would lose you in the Friends List even if you went online, making it harder to reform orgs. There would have to release a tool to wipe your entire friends list in every single character as well (i think that list is stored client side and not server side).

Yes, it would be nice to switch the entire city plots to instanced and allowing the use of markets with instant mail delivery system, it would certainly bring back RK to it's former self without all the insanity of cities looking identical. However, it also takes away traveling shortcuts that the community has gotten used it, whompas in cities, orgs who have a city in playfields which takes a bit to travel to use their location as a shortcut to other places. My 220's wouldn't have a problem with the removal of cities, but a froob that is still running everywhere for missions who uses the whompas to save 20-30mins worth of running to the nearest grid/whompa would be affected.

Also the value of cities are 7-15Bill, org banks can't hold that high amount, and a single toon (the leader of the clan) can't even hold 1Bill. FC is not going to hunt down every single org leader to give them creds... not realistic.

However, my suggestion would be for them to give a "voucher" for org leaders which would spawn a set of buildings in inv based on the QL of the original city, then set all city controllers to give a free month of upkeep. Combined with a small change to the layout of the instanced cities to allow a market (right now you'd have to sacrifice another building to have it), it probably would be a reasonable compromise.

[erozc]

There are several serious issues.

Duplicate names and character #ID's...each server has it's distinct characters database going into 10 digits. By changing the characters #ID all your old friends would lose you in the Friends List even if you went online, making it harder to reform orgs. There would have to release a tool to wipe your entire friends list in every single character as well (i think that list is stored client side and not server side).

This is an example of problems that software engineers solve daily. Nobody said it was going to be a snap-my-fingers kind of thing. This issue is strictly technical (hell, character IDs might be suffixed or prefixed with 1,2, or 3, the format changed, it's all doable) except for duplicate names, but a system and procedure for handling duplicate names could also be built. There would be no tools required to wipe friends lists since the patch would of course fix that automatically.

Yes, it would be nice to switch the entire city plots to instanced and allowing the use of markets with instant mail delivery system, it would certainly bring back RK to it's former self without all the insanity of cities looking identical. However, it also takes away traveling shortcuts that the community has gotten used it, whompas in cities, orgs who have a city in playfields which takes a bit to travel to use their location as a shortcut to other places. My 220's wouldn't have a problem with the removal of cities, but a froob that is still running everywhere for missions who uses the whompas to save 20-30mins worth of running to the nearest grid/whompa would be affected.

Just add a few more grid spots and things would be just dandy. I already hate going to SFH, but hey, a few minutes of flight never killed anyone in a MMORPG, right? Also, nobody's going to fly 30 or even 20 minutes to the nearest whompa / grid unless you haven't learned how to use omni grid terminals despite guards as a clanner, or don't have a yalm. Having no yalm is also having no excuse.

Also the value of cities are 7-15Bill, org banks can't hold that high amount, and a single toon (the leader of the clan) can't even hold 1Bill. FC is not going to hunt down every single org leader to give them creds... not realistic.

I did not say that market value of city plots should be reimbursed and I don't know where you came up with that idea. I was strictly referring to buildings placed on the plot, and there would probably be little issue with a voucher like you suggested that could be /claimed by the org leader, that would provide an instanced plot and say, a QL300 HQ at least.

Combined with a small change to the layout of the instanced cities to allow a market (right now you'd have to sacrifice another building to have it), it probably would be a reasonable compromise.

Yes, instanced plots would have to be enlarged.

I'm not going to argue the techicalities of how easy or how difficult it is to actually implement a feature into AO, but it seems that too often good suggestions are shot down by people on the forum claiming "But that would require coding skillz! It would be too hard for FC because it needs coding!" After all, they are professional software engineers and we should respect that.

I apologize if my tone of voice sounds harsh but it just sounds like the arguments you provided are not the real reason you would not like to see the servers combined.

[Mannystk]

If you guys aren't at the party...you should be! Thanks to everyone for making this such a fun event.

Happy Halloween!

I haz more credz and ncu than you!

[Windguaerd]

I think the dev team already would have discussed the technical possibilities of a full server transfer/merge and how much time and work (= expense) would be involved by now. Means appears to try and avoid it probably because it would be a very expensive option, so other options are likely to be used/tried.

[Vassilis]

Did you just joined the game?... cause I've been here since the 2001 beta days, and you are.... maybe #1329473 to predict the end of AO due to lack of players. Servers are still up, people still play, I see new players coming in every day, people leveling every day, same as before. DNW seems to have a problem, but not active over there so I can't really say how their community there is handling it.

Step 1. RK1-RK2 merge is unlikely to happen, because there are some people who have an unfounded grudge against the "other" server or think their server to be "superior" and won't want to switch. Another reason is notum bases, those can't be transferred, which means that a force reboot of all fields would be required and that will upset a lot of FC customers.

Steo 2. Means already said that once the engine is out and working as intended, advertising will be done. Why waste funds they need now FOR the engine, to advertise it before it's ready?

Step 3.Already answered.

Means has done more than all previous GD's together (he's got AO in the best shape in the history of the game), so I think maybe... perhaps, we should let a game director who has been a dev for 5 years here... do his job.

Step 1 : the grudge or "superior" feeling disappeared years ago when the population started going down. The few people which have too much ego to understand that it's merging or having a dead game, should think twice.

Step 2 : To be honnest, I don't really see the new engine out before Q4 2010 (it has been announced in... 2007 iirc ?). With no new expansions/boosters planned at all, I don't foresee a bright future... if there is no adds at all made till 2011.

It's because of the new zones, that the playerbase is more spread out.

NW got people out of cities, SL got people out of RK, AI got people back onto RK for axp, LE got them more into PvP and more into RK, LoX got people back into SL due to the upgrading of old Inf/Pande phatz.

During the first couple of months, there was over 100k AO boxes sold. I'd be amazed if there is 10k paid accounts at the moment (it's probably closer to 3k) -> see shadowgod's post. When the new zones were released, they were all filled (rk + sl + cities). Today, they are all empty, except for bor where everyone goes afk to farm played time.

Means has done more than all previous GD's together (he's got AO in the best shape in the history of the game), so I think maybe... perhaps, we should let a game director who has been a dev for 5 years here... do his job.

I really like Means for his good communication skills. However, I don't think that I aggree about the "best shape in the history of the game" statement lol

[Mordo]

This.
Nobody wants to play a game anymore where 4-5 classes can do anything and the others are unneeded crap for most things and never get invited as they are dead weight.

[madman666]

so you dont multi-tab your chat windows means - makes it cleaner :P