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Thread: Update: Plans and Progress!

  1. #1

    Update: Plans and Progress!

    So where are we at with 17.9? I thought I'd take some time out today and just give you all an overview of where we are at, what the plans are and what you can do to help test the progress.

    17.8.2 Update this week

    We had planned to go straight to the 17.9 update, but given a couple of things that I will get to in just a bit we have decided to do a small maintenance update for some fixes in the interim. Therefore there will be a small client update this week to a 17.8.2 version. This is a very small update to address a couple of issues we didn't want waiting any further. Namely pets going into a disconnected state on the battlestation and some fixes for the use of aoe effects on duels.

    We will post the exact time and duration of the downtime at some point tomorrow.

    17.9 Status

    So what's up with 17.9? The update was actually pretty much ready to go, although we will use the extra time to do some more polishing and tweaking to the new encounters and items. So what's the reason for wanting to hold it back?

    Concealment and Perception is the answer.

    When working on some of the older bugs in an effort to squash the pesky things we were finally able to nail down something we had suspected for a while, and players had wondered about for some time and that's the oddities with how the perception against concealment (and general perception checks) scale and work. What we found hidden away in a particularly dark corner of the code-base was that these checks has always been checking only the unbuffed base stats when performing its checks.

    Fixing that resolves quite a few minor bugs (like the difficulties players have finding hidden mobs as you find in the Crypt or in Penumbra for example) but it present us with a potentially major change to the game mechanics that is going to be difficult to gauge. How will resolving this effect those professions that rely to a large extent on concealment, and how will it effect general balance with everyone getting additional benefit from perception buffs.

    The honest answer is that we can't be totally sure until we get some data, this is where you can help!

    Playing on the test server

    The transfer of characters to test live is now back up and running and we would encourage players to please come to the test dimension and check out the change and provide your feedback. Does it play any differently? It may be that the balance isn't that far out due to the using the buffed stats, it might be that with players set-ups it makes quite a difference and we would like to get as good a picture as possible. We will most likely test this update for an additional two or three weeks before considering releasing it to the live dimensions.

    We are of course testing this ourselves as well both internally and on the test dimension but any additional players or time spent on the test dimension will be very helpful to help see the effect of this change.

    In closing

    Now it's unlikely we would want to revert the change, but we are open to adding new and different buffs (or modifying existing ones) if we feel that the new balance caused by this change requires some further adjustments.

    We felt that this change had far too much potential for significant change to rush out to the live dimensions. It might well be that in the end it doesn't have such a big impact due to how players stats have ended up down the years. So deciding to take extra testing time might be being over cautious, but I much would rather be safe than sorry!

    So there you have it, that's the current game-plan and we will of course keep you updated with any further developments!
    Craig 'Silirrion' Morrison
    Old Timer

  2. #2
    Thank you for updating us with information!
    And thank you again for fixing the perception thingy ^^
    Good luck with other stuff, dont listen to all the whiners (including me)
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  3. #3
    Impressive work, truly good stuff.
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  4. #4
    thanks for not waiting to roll out the pet fix, it is much appreciated.
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  5. #5
    What exactly do you mean when you say it has only has been checking the base stats? As far as i'm aware stare has always helped in making players/mobs become visible and ruse has always helped in staying hidden, I'm not disputing that there is problems with these 2 skills, but what exactly is the bug you have found since what you describe is not what I am seeing in game?
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  6. #6
    i m pretty sure stare dont help much in pvp to see people with correct concealment.
    how can i guy (not agent) can reach the 2700+ conc?
    but the SB perception buff already helped me.
    Also when guy A with almost same concealment than the guy B perception:
    if the A sneak in the presence of B, then sneak fail.
    if A sneak and B enter in same zone as A , then sneak success.


    If you fix the conc-perception, maybe give some concealment buff able to avoid the easy +600 perception buff.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by freezosch View Post
    If you fix the conc-perception, maybe give some concealment buff able to avoid the easy +600 perception buff.
    the professions that would need this buff, have it.
    Proud Member of Paradise

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonghigs View Post
    the professions that would need this buff, have it.
    Nono!
    NTs need to triple from sneak and tarders need to BR and GTH from sneak!!
    220 Shade | 220 NT | 220 Crat | 220 Fixer | 220 Agent | 165 Adv

  9. #9
    I'm agent with reset concealment and when I was doing some pvming mainly Pandemonium raids concealment/perception seemed to work exactly as it should work.

    If I remember correctly check rate was to successfully sneak from mob you need mobs QL*7=conceal.

    I have 1600conceal which allows to sneak from soem ql228 mobs (which are almost yellow for 220 agent).

    With leet I have 1800 conceal which allots to sneak from 1800/7=ql257 mobs. Which is true.

    My base conceal is 256 so I don't see how it could be right for PVM.

    PVP is different aspect and haven't really tested it since I don't bother to sneak in BS like some pesky traders

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggysmallz View Post
    I'm agent with reset concealment and when I was doing some pvming mainly Pandemonium raids concealment/perception seemed to work exactly as it should work.
    Oh well it seems that there's been different code for the checks when you're checking player concealment versus mob perception - the other cases being player versus player, and mob concealment versus player perception.

    Personally I like that it's been traced down, hunting down arctic leets AOEing myself with the dragon morph nukes every 3 minutes just to get some stupid mobs out of sneak was a bore. I am also thrilled with any PvP repercussions this might have.
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  11. #11
    Random musing but can you make pets hide with the owner too? Annoying having a big attackable beacon following the pet user while they are in sneak.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
    This is a very small update to address a couple of issues we didn't want waiting any further. Namely pets going into a disconnected state on the battlestation and some fixes for the use of aoe effects on duels.
    Oh, that's very nice to hear. Thanks. Don't forget to peek at this issue Technogen is pointing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Technogen View Post
    Random musing but can you make pets hide with the owner too? Annoying having a big attackable beacon following the pet user while they are in sneak.
    P.S.
    Oh, and nerf the Izgimer's Wealth a little, please. Such defence (Nanobot Guard coupled with 50000 nano and without significant drawback), combined with offence NTs have == not realy a gaming experience rest of us gonna enjoy with.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
    The transfer of characters to test live is now back up and running and we would encourage players to please come to the test dimension and check out the change and provide your feedback.
    Link please!

  14. #14
    Character transfer is in your account page, under 'paid points' section (but costs zero Paid Points to use)

  15. #15
    situation 1: my 220 shade friend attempts to hide from me without the new +500 conceal buff, fails

    situation 2: she casts the conceal buff, vanish

    so...the fact that it only checks unbuffed values is not accurate, or it doesn't always do this.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagget View Post
    Character transfer is in your account page, under 'paid points' section (but costs zero Paid Points to use)
    thank you

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiggity View Post
    so...the fact that it only checks unbuffed values is not accurate, or it doesn't always do this.
    Yep noticed that too
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiggity View Post
    so...the fact that it only checks unbuffed values is not accurate, or it doesn't always do this.
    The problem is that it's not that easy to gauge, now perform that check a 100 times and it might be more a telling test. A one for one test isn't going to show out anything that we can rely on. It is perfectly possible you might have succeeded without the buff the second time it was tried as well. (random number generators are annoying like that when it comes to testing checks that have inherent chances of success and failure ) The early feedback from test suggests that the players playing there have seen a change, but its also early tests there as well.

    That said it might be checking it somewhere else hiding away in the code, and that is exactly why we wanted to test further before releasing it to live. It might be that checking the unbuffed against the buffed values doesn't end up changing much given people's set-ups and stats but we want to be sure
    Craig 'Silirrion' Morrison
    Old Timer

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
    The problem is that it's not that easy to gauge, now perform that check a 100 times and it might be more a telling test. A one for one test isn't going to show out anything that we can rely on. It is perfectly possible you might have succeeded without the buff the second time it was tried as well. (random number generators are annoying like that when it comes to testing checks that have inherent chances of success and failure ) The early feedback from test suggests that the players playing there have seen a change, but its also early tests there as well.

    That said it might be checking it somewhere else hiding away in the code, and that is exactly why we wanted to test further before releasing it to live. It might be that checking the unbuffed against the buffed values doesn't end up changing much given people's set-ups and stats but we want to be sure
    Wait, so you're saying it's a randomly generated number whether a conceal works when it should just be straight comparing conceal to perception? This is confusing.

    Why not simply make it so that if a person has more conceal than another person has perception, they vanish? Why would there ever be a random number roll?

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  20. #20
    Everything is random in the game. 100%s would be boring.
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