Question on PVP missions.

[Humlee]

and incase you did not notice, this is a game, not real life =P

Neutrality doesent exsist in Real life anyways, its just a surface cowards assume when theyre afraid to step up. Sweden etc. COWARDS.

[CarbonumCopy]

you all seem to be missing one simple point. Its not that neutrals WONT go fight for omni-tek or clans, its that Omni-Tek and the Clans, dont trust the neutrals with missions like this. Why would they? "Gee Bob! Looks like we have a loyal Omni-Tek employee, and an unsided neutral here, both saying they'll go out and kill those Delta Sentinals... Lets go with the Neutral who we have no affiliation or connection with at all to go insure our safety and deal with a problem of security with! GENIUS!"

maybe a little sarcastic, and the name is trite, but it conveys the image well. why would one faction trust an important mission akin to major security for itself... to someone who has attacked their resources and employees before, and has yet to choose a side?

Of course, there could be Neutral elements handing out missions to go kill neutral-hating sided folks. Plenty of those. All undercover, of course, and we certainly can't trust Clans or Omni characters not to sell us out...

Storyline-wise, everyone should be able to quit OT or Clans and become neutral - that's how RK neutrals and Jobe got started, after all.

So "storyline" justifications don't really cut it. Funcom just doesn't seem to really consider the impact of their actions on neutrals much. Hence our desire to remind them of our existence once in a while.

[Awikun]

Some of experts posting here (with surprisingly late join date) miss some very important facts.

So could you explain me as I am only dumb Neutral who dinged lev 200 about 1.5 years ago:

How can I MAKE A CHOICE and become Omni or Clan ?
When did I decide not to participate in new content added today (and in lot of other recent patches)?

My decision to stay Neutral was made when beeing lev 200+ Neutral had some advantages compared to Omni and Clan. We did not have to farm faction at very boring and time consuming Galahad/Mordreth raids.

Implementation of SL misions was first important change that nerfed Neutrals.
Cancelation of LFT channels and implementing LFT interface was a second one.
Now we just see escalation of "Nerf Neutrals actions"

Now to the most important point :
I am not saying that (if possible) I would now decide to chose side, but what I can not accept is that right now I CAN NOT PICK A SIDE and as Neutral I feel nerfed with every new patch.

So to every Hecknob, pseudoRP jerk etc I can only reply :

Whenever you write : pick a side, you made that choice etc. etc you are just proving your total lack of knowledge about AO mechanics, history of AO patches and your below average IQ.

BTW show me dictionary definitions of Omni and Clan because as it is now the whole situation looks like this:

Omni and Clan - it is a game, storyline, RP, bla bla bla, etc. so we can do whatever we want.

Neutrals - check Dictionary and YOU HAVE TO DO THIS AND THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE NEUTRAL followed by even more stupid reasons and examples taken out randomly from RL, history etc.

kthxbye

[Piping_Hot]

you all seem to be missing one simple point. Its not that neutrals WONT go fight for omni-tek or clans, its that Omni-Tek and the Clans, dont trust the neutrals with missions like this. Why would they? "Gee Bob! Looks like we have a loyal Omni-Tek employee, and an unsided neutral here, both saying they'll go out and kill those Delta Sentinals... Lets go with the Neutral who we have no affiliation or connection with at all to go insure our safety and deal with a problem of security with! GENIUS!"

Apparently you've never heard of mercenaries

mercenary
: one that serves merely for wages; especially : a soldier hired into foreign service

To answer you question: Why? - deniability.
It is a tried and true tactic use by governments all over the world to employ third party agents to carry out covert activities. Assassin, mercenary, free agent, etc. - there are many terms in almost every language to describe this concept.

It's nothing but pure foolishnes to say that Neutrals are not involved in the conflict.

[Negs]

correct, as they arent on either side of the conflict, neutrals dont have any equivalent for these quests.

how about hiring a team with some creativity and take into account current paying customers. Not everything has to relate directly with the conflict ... as your old team used to know.

Neut vs. Neut is perfectly viable doesn't ruin the precious omni vs. clan crap that is getting made up as it goes along ...

[lunette]

you can pick a side and get yours!

No, I cannot pick a side. That's the issue here.
At 206 you really should be aware of these game mechanics.

[Negs]

Neutrality doesent exsist in Real life anywaitsys, just a surface cowards assume when theyre afraid to step up.

What are those that are just crazy enough to attack all sides? Are they neutral ... hell yes they are they don't care who wins a stupid pety war, or have favorities to one side or the other.

Open your mind and think for yourself for once. Things are not black and white

[Mmba]

Of course, there could be Neutral elements handing out missions to go kill neutral-hating sided folks. Plenty of those. All undercover, of course, and we certainly can't trust Clans or Omni characters not to sell us out...

Storyline-wise, everyone should be able to quit OT or Clans and become neutral - that's how RK neutrals and Jobe got started, after all.

So "storyline" justifications don't really cut it. Funcom just doesn't seem to really consider the impact of their actions on neutrals much. Hence our desire to remind them of our existence once in a while.

then your gonna leave the neutral-hating sided folks out? what if they want to retaliate against the neutrals against their own pvp missions?

i can see slogans now: "join NAFOCWUTBNT" Neutrals against former-omni clanners who used to be neutrals themself. Kill them all!

as a side note, i wish all omni/clan hated neutrals. my motto? if your not with us, your against us. go omni-tek!

[Piping_Hot]

the role of neutrals doesn't need to be reviewed or addressed... it has IN NO WAY changed since day 1... there is no misleading information ANYWHERE that says neutrals will get the same amount of sided content as Omni and Clan... Search funcom responses on these forums and it's CLEARLY indicated its intended that they WILL NOT...

But these forums are not the game. If you read the story line, and if you talk to many of the NPC's in the game there is very clearly a role for Neutrals on the Omni/Clan conflict. There is a great deal of information in the game that suggests a more complex world than simply black and white with two sides fighting.

(given the size of omni and clan vs neutrals... I'll guess many people made their informed decision)

Considering the number of Omni/Clan players that would like to be able to go Neutral, and the number of Neutral players that make Omni/Clan alts becuase they are tired of FC not making the game match the storyline, your assertion clearly misses the mark.

... the question I never understand is why neutrals never seem able to grasp that after 5 years of consistent game development with very consistent community relations responses that this may be an INTENDED feature.

And the question I never understand is why FunCom (and many, not all, but many of the players) don't understand that that there are opportunities for a much richer, more interesting game that is hinted at by the story line and the dialogues.

There is a storyline and a game design..

And the two don't match up. The story line is much more nuanced and sophisticated than the game design and there are many of us who would like to see the interaction and conflicts between the factions become as cool as the story line. Both the story line and the game are made by the same people, FunCom, so if you imagine that "there is no misleading information ANYWHERE" then you are completely misguided.

[sobeguy]

as a side note, i wish all omni/clan hated neutrals. my motto? if your not with us, your against us. go omni-tek!

Evidently you've never heard of "My enemy's enemy is my ally." Not suprising - why do you think neut and omni are friends? Precicely because clan leadership approaches neuts with "if you arent with us you're against us" and forces us to be enemies - and I'd rather stand together than hang separately, thanks.

I'd be all for sided missions targeting neutral cities. Would have to mess around with guards and such a bit to make it happen though.

[PanzerAg]

MBNA or whatever your name is who are you talk on these forums like you are someone that we should care what you think.. here a dolla go buy a clue. stumblebum no one likes you so just go away already

[Negs]

Why does every thread have to get turned into an "omg fc hates neutrals", or "omg nerf advys" or "wtf fix NT's"

isnt a conversation about game elements possible without these things popping up?

go look up what neutral means in the dictonary: "not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others" (Dictionary.com)

my message to neutrals: you are only in existance for pure RP purposes. You were not created to add to the story line, only to be the side where fence sitters could go.
so to all neuts who say "omg nerf i want pvp missions": pick a side or go back to the fence you came from

You know that is fine and well ... and i agree to the point Neutrals have no business in the Omni vs. Clan war.

HOWEVER!!!!! We have a huge business with our own fronts.

Omni vs. Neutral = They invaded our city we should have every right to defend it.

Clan vs. Neutral = Sentinals have neutrals on a Kill on Sight list .... we can't build up rage and retaliate.

Neutral vs. Neutral = Even thrown out by the sided people .. some neuts are criminals. Even in the Funcom Generated Mission text ... OMG yes someone actually reads the mission, not just clicksaving away.



What pisses me off is that they actually make some great strides storyline wise that would incorporate all 3 sides in different levels ... then just toss it away. Where is the consistancy? Is there that much turn around or indecisiveness in their writers department? Omni taking over borealis what a HUGE Neutral bump (no not a nerf at all), to really entwining them back into to scene with the game. But what has happened since ... nothing ... Almost as if each department within the game is off doing their own thing then all of a sudden try to mickey mouse things together trying to figure out how it will fit.

Its time to admit .. they boffed up having 3 factions in this game. I can only pray to god they aren't going to be making the same mistakes again in Age of Conan.

[Piping_Hot]

you ever hear of the saying that "Theres 2 sides to every story/conflict"?

well, ao seems to be something like that (aka a story/conflict). you saying that ao is the exception and there should be 3 sides, cause you say so?

I can't believe you actually trying to use an old proverb as the basis for an argument, this may be the lamest attempt I've seen yet. How about "A stitch in time saves nine", or "you can't teach an old dog new tricks", or "Be it Ever So Humble, There's No Place Like Home", these are all good sayings. And they are equally inapplable to AO.

The truth of the matter is that when you are dealing with geopolitics, and the conflict on Rubi-Ka is definitely geopolitics, there are always Always ALWAYS more than two sides to the conflict. There are multiple groups/factions, each with their own vested interests who have an outcome that they desire. Furthermore, even with factions there are multiple sub-factions who each have their own agenda.

If you are only capable of seeing the world (and this game) in black and white then that's your problem, not mine. I will enjoy, and encourage, more sophistication and nuance in this game wherever possible.

[Traquemort]

I'm clan since I begun AO at the beginning of the froob's program... Now I'm 200+ and when I think, I want to join neutrals... If necessary I'd throw all my Self == Clan or so equipment, I'd kill redeemeds until having exactly 0 in redeemed, unredeemed, followers and operators' factions, I'd redo one mish per token I've won till now to lose them, just to be neutral...
To be a part of the faction who always undergoes the other ones and never make something by its own, without the "help" of one of the two other ones...
All that because I can't stand the clan's behavior of never accepting neuts in a raid and considering them as omnis, and omnis' one of using neuts to balance and try to beat clans by making neuts lose their objectivity... Clans' faction is supposed to be the redeemed, so why couldn't I redeem and go back to the neutrality?
Neutrals should be allowed to get a mission from both Pvp-missions' givers, given their own choice, their own self reasons... Sure, being neutral should force to a few sacrifices, as should being clan or being omni, but now, there's no difference between omni and clan out of the selling price in the shops and the slightly better whompa's network for omnis... While the neuts didn't get any improvement since they exist...

Please Funcom, let people redeem themselves and join back the only faction through which EVERYONE has gone a day or another... or at least since ICC shuttleport's creation

[Piping_Hot]

correct, as they arent on either side of the conflict, neutrals dont have any equivalent for these quests.

So you're telling us that the company that was able to write a cool, sophistated, complex storyline isn't capable of implementing this great story into their own game?

Silirrion, I hope you've seen from previous posts that I'm not a FunCom hater. I love this game. I like the setting and the story line - I'm still paying to keep playing because this is, in the final analysis, a great game. Having said that, why can't/won't FunCom acknowledge that they have created a milieu that has unrealized potential?

There is so much more to the story line than the game. For that matter, there is so much more hinted at in the NPC dialogues within the game than is actually implemented. It would have taken so very little imagination and effort to create comperable missions for Neutrals that would have made sense.

At the very least, FC could have employed a solution that they have used many times in the past. There have been many additions to the game for which the requirements are "not Omni", or "not Clan" - why couldn't this mission have been the same? Why couldn't Neutrals have the option of taking the mission to go after either Eleanor Kiamarli or Bahirae Serugiusu? There was no reason, either in the story line or in the game mechanics, not to make this a possibility.

[Negs]

So you're telling us that the company that was able to write a cool, sophistated, complex storyline isn't capable of implementing this great story into their own game?

Silirrion, I hope you've seen from previous posts that I'm not a FunCom hater. I love this game. I like the setting and the story line - I'm still paying to keep playing because this is, in the final analysis, a great game. Having said that, why can't/won't FunCom acknowledge that they have created a milieu that has unrealized potential?

There is so much more to the story line than the game. For that matter, there is so much more hinted at in the NPC dialogues within the game than is actually implemented. It would have taken so very little imagination and effort to create comperable missions for Neutrals that would have made sense.

At the very least, FC could have employed a solution that they have used many times in the past. There have been many additions to the game for which the requirements are "not Omni", or "not Clan" - why couldn't this mission have been the same? Why couldn't Neutrals have the option of taking the mission to go after either Eleanor Kiamarli or Bahirae Serugiusu? There was no reason, either in the story line or in the game mechanics, not to make this a possibility.

You know I think that is what gets me so steamed too. I love this game. But seeing so much great potential we have here is a real shame.

Anarchy Online is EXTREMELY lucky compaired to other games by having a mature friendly community as its majority. Not many other games can say that. If anything I believe we have the people here that could handle the complexities and such.

Now this is just a wild assumption on my part ... but givin some of the story lines ... i think they do realise what they could do ... however it really seems they don't have the man power or know-how on how to do it. And even past game directors embraced this diversity and complexity and delivered to all three sides..

I really don't want to be flaming these guys because hey we are all people and can only do what we can do ... but its like being in a desert with 6 bottles of water, but you can only carry one in each hand. Instead of coming up with a way to figure out to hold all 6 bottles, you just dump the other 4 on the ground and keep on walking.

[itoderry3]

correct, as they arent on either side of the conflict, neutrals dont have any equivalent for these quests.

The question was why not PVP mission for neutrals! Are we (the neutrals) players? Are we paying for the game (at least part of us)?
If yes we must have same services for our money!! (Real money)
If you (funcom employers) don't have any ideea leave! I think the FUNCOM can find a lot of people with ideas.
In the last 8 month I was playing this game and I saw a lot of disrespect from FUNCOM. Every time when a new patch was lanced something goes wrong. The lag is infernal. Graphical engine is a junk! Every profession has a lot of bugs! And in that situation what are doing the FUNCOM? They broke the working things in game. They offer fun only for a part of his customer. (Yes at the end we are THE CUSTOMMERS for you – You always forget that thing!).

“neutrals dont have any equivalent for these quests.” Why not!? You are paid to have ideas. If your people can’t have a good idea, find other employees.

And find a solution to test the damn code! Pay the testers or offer to the testers some advantages on the live servers but test the code!

If we (the customers) don’t pay one day you block our accounts, but, you can keep the servers offline without any problem.
Shame on you!

[langwiz7]

You want black and white? Go back to Counter-Strike or Chess and see how long you can put up with lack of variations....Or you could just go to WoW and stop bothering those of us who like complex games like AO usually is, barring this change.

The people arguing against fixing this are bullies intent on "protecting their turf". "My PVP! MINE MINE MINE!"

And then there are all those nice people who seem to know what being a neutral is better than the people who are actually neutral. Take your dictionaries elsewhere.

[Thermonuke]

moving slightly away from the neuts who feel hard done by, i am more concerned about exactly how these pvp missions are gonna work, when someone pulls a mission, will an opposing faction member suddenly get a flag and be open to attack? will this turn into a mass gank fest whenever someone turns up into the target area only to be met by swarms of enemies waiting there to defend? will teams of attackers or lowbies with pocket docs be roaming around farming titles from a bunch of froobs/afk'rs? we need to know these things!

[warfaring]

well hopefully we can get in game soon and find out!