New firstaid stims and healing kits

[Edta]

Actually, this change is partly designed to help newer players *make* money - As noted, the old kits/stims are still farmable from whatever used to drop them, and now can be tradeskilled into the new kits. If you don't want to pay the price for the convenience of picking them up in the shop, you can either go farm the old kits/stims you need in order to tradeskill a set of the new stuff *or* just purchase whatever you need from someone else. In addition, as the kits/stims available in the shop don't cover all available QL ranges, the demand for stacks of the old kits/stims in varying QLs will increase, creating a definite market for those who have the patience to go farm the old stuff. =)

(i also disagree on shop items being the first experience players have with kits/stims - versions are given out in the startup areas of the game and some of the first things you run across in the subway are stacks of the old stims; i don't think that in this particular instance we have to worry too much about people being 'scared off' by the prices of the new items =))

Considering that you need
A) Quite some IP in tradeskills
B) buy an item "pharmaceutical nanobots" that's about as expensive as the new stims themself
C) Shadowlands expansion to get SL stims

I don't see this working out very well...

Considering most profs need some form of in battle healing OR nano regaining, newbies are likely to look at the shop once they run out of their stims from Brandon Thorn and stim fiends. Putting so much effort into getting basic stuff like stims is not very attractive either. Blitzing and tradeskilling can make you money as it is, but they are not evident things to do for newbies. The poor people are usually those that didn't figure this out yet. Adding new things to blitz/tradeskill (even if it would have been done right) doesn't help that much.

My other issues also still stand.

[Edta]

Needing?

Since when?

You can fight completely naked and without weapons too, so I guess nothing is [/I]needed[/I]. But to take on mobs that give decent xp without constantly dying, I pretty much need them yeah.
Of course, alternatively you can OST to 220 so that you don't need them. Once 220 you can use nd and hd instead...

[McKnuckleSamwich]

well you can also do mishes and get stims.

[Otansaanpas]

Considering that you need
C) Shadowlands expansion to get SL stims

i thought same stims worked both SL and RK

[Joralf]

Actually, this change is partly designed to help newer players *make* money - As noted, the old kits/stims are still farmable from whatever used to drop them, and now can be tradeskilled into the new kits.

I like the new kits and stims. However there is one thing I would like to point out and that is, in my experience, trade skills is waaaay over the heads of new players. It is also a complete waste of IP at low levels, even for Engineers and Traders.

[Xenotric]

If what I've read in this thread is correct:

New stims + kits per QL heal more for a lower requirement but cost more
New stims + kits per COST heal the same or slightly more still.

Old stims + kits are obtainable and craftable into the new stims and kits from the current sources other than shops.

The only issues I can see with these is the matter of dumbing down, as some have said at times in the game the choice between nano or health is a big one, it also makes the rarer restoration stims obsolete.

[Mastablasta]

in my experience, trade skills is waaaay over the heads of new players. It is also a complete waste of IP at low levels, even for Engineers and Traders.

Maybe with a proper tutorial that wouldn't be the case. And how is something that potentially could make you millions a complete waste of IP?

[Zwelgje]

Personally the new kit's and stims will be great to use and no more switching between RK and SL stuff.

On the other hand, these will not make a game breaking income for "new players" because "old players"will have bought all kinds of QL of the now shoppable Old kits/stims and trade skill these them selves into the new version. This goes up to QL 125 for shop buyable old stuff. Ergo, no profit here for the new players.

Next thing is the Nano doc for the Fixers which has a nice and intresting nano with which they can summon stacks of the old stuff (Kits, stims w.e.). up to QL 220. This is way less effort then a normal "new player" will have to do to get it. No profit there either unless FC will nerfs (by increasing the costs???) that nano.

For most people up to a QL 220 new stim or kit will be more than enough to go around with. Why bother with the higher QL stuff if you didnt IP FA in the first place.

The stuff that will upgrade the Old kits/stims might be the only thing in the entire procese that "new players" might be farming and which might have its use for some income. But if it will become shop buyable (even up till a certain QL) this will be of no use as well.

[Mastablasta]

Yea, before patchday I'll make sure to buy 10000 of each type

[Joralf]

Maybe with a proper tutorial that wouldn't be the case. And how is something that potentially could make you millions a complete waste of IP?

I agree that IF there is made a tutorial it wouldn't be the case.

Kinda thought that someone would pick on the statment that spending IP in tradeskills is a waste. What i ment was that spending IP in tradeskills means that you have less IP to spend on abilities that makes the game easier/less hard (depending on who is reading this) for you, in terms of gaining XP (i.e. attributes, evades, wep skills etc.).

Anyway, the main point in my previous post wasn't really the IP use. Hell, I ninjed every monsterpart and made blood plasma to make money when I started the game. The main point was that in the game (right now) new players and tradeskills don't mix very well.

[Borgina]

Slightly off topic but I've always felt disapointed by how little exp is gained by even fairly complicated tradeskilling processes eg there are 7 steps and I think (at work so cant look it up) about 4 or 5 different skills required to turn a nano ID and carbon rock into a nano crystal. I feel that tradeskilling should be a viable way to level for crafting proffessions (trader and engi) so they could choose to ip into making stuff and leveling that way or ip into combat and level that way. I know people will say that it's value is in making money but you can also make money from killing and looting stuff that also gives better exp.

/endrant

[Mastablasta]

Back in the day (TM) a friend and orgmate who played trader used to sell all our bags full of mission junk to the tradershop. He also would accept all our monsterparts and turn them into bloodplasma and sell them. He gained XP and would keep a small fee for each time. Usualy the "dirty" numbers at the end. So if your stuff sold for 523413 he'd keep the 23413creds.

[Edta]

Spoiler warning: information about new tradeskilling in this post.

i thought same stims worked both SL and RK

To make the new stims you need to:
A) get nano and hp version of RK stims and combine them
B) get nano and hp version of SL stims and combine them
C) combine A and B
D) Combine C with a shop buyable item that costs about as much as the same ql of the new stims.

[Edta]

New stims + kits per COST heal the same or slightly more still.

This is incorrect. For the rechargers it is probably true, but not for the stims. The stims I compared (both requiring about 600 First aid) costed 28 times more per hp healed for the new ones compared to the old ones.

The rest of your post is correct though.

[Spartanx9]

D) Combine C with a shop buyable item that costs about as much as the same ql of the new stims.

Is the shop buyable consumed on tradeskill?

[Xenotric]

This is incorrect. For the rechargers it is probably true, but not for the stims. The stims I compared (both requiring about 600 First aid) costed 28 times more per hp healed for the new ones compared to the old ones.

The rest of your post is correct though.

do they both require the same and heal the same then?

My understanding was that the new stims also where a bit lower requirement per ql and a bit more healing per ql.

Which would mean you could get a lower ql (thus for less money more equal to old stims cost) to heal the same as a current higher ql stim.

[Mastablasta]

New stuff requires more pr. QL than old stuff, but lower QL heal way more than previously. Any sit down kit will heal you to 100% in one go, for instance.

[Edta]

do they both require the same and heal the same then?

My understanding was that the new stims also where a bit lower requirement per ql and a bit more healing per ql.

Which would mean you could get a lower ql (thus for less money more equal to old stims cost) to heal the same as a current higher ql stim.

You are right that for the same requirement you get healed more with the new ones.

If I recall right, the same quality has a higher requirement. As such the scale is wider: for example ql 125 rechargers (available from shop) are probably sufficient for 220's.
I (200 froob) currently use ql 125 stims, but would have to use ql 90 stims with the new ones, and I think I even needed to spend IP for that.

So yes, you can use lower quality. But I compared stims that have the same requirement, not the same quality; I believe that's most fair. So despite buying lower ql, you'd still pay 28 times more per hp healed.

[Xenotric]

I just checked the test server, looking at just the low level shop versions (5-20)

Old stims, level 20 requires 93 first aid, heals 105-106

New stims, level 20 requires 153 first aid, heals 256 health and nano.

level 10 requires 78 first aid and is the highest you can use with a 93 first aid skill, heals 137 hp and nano.

so yeah req for req you'll be using much lower stims with the added advantage of both nano and health.

However the cost is still higher for stims.

current level 10 stims cost 29 credits for 25 I beleive, new ones cost 2220 for 25 (at a low level comp lit) which IS a lot higher but is not a lot in total, it may be costly if your running through them constantly but with the old ones still gainable from missions and monsters and such that sort of price isn't prohibitively high but it is questionably high.

New characters may find they would prefer to go for a cheaper lower stim (level 5's only cost 480 for example) or work to build their stims rather than buy em.

[Mastablasta]

The extra item is new in the process, then.