The New Icons, Sci-fi or Fantasy?

[Marketplace]

I don't mean to offend someones work, as I sure as hell couldn't do better.

But does anyone else feel that the new icons feel a bit more like an old school Fantasy RPG game and not really sci-fi-ish at all?

Don't misunderstand, the work is great in itself.

Please feel free to throw eggs at me.

[SoapTarder]

*Throws egg and misses*

considering half the new icons have items/things on them that are sci-fi, and in many cases specific to ao, i guess you're referring to the style. then again a lot of fantasy mmo's out there have ripped off ao both in style and content *cough wow cough*. hard to really say style wise anymore what is what anymore. all I know, the knew icons look way better then the current.

[Raggy]

I have no problem with the new icons, a bit of variation is nice.

[Marketplace]

*Throws egg and misses*

considering half the new icons have items/things on them that are sci-fi, and in many cases specific to ao, i guess you're referring to the style. then again a lot of fantasy mmo's out there have ripped off ao both in style and content *cough wow cough*. hard to really say style wise anymore what is what anymore. all I know, the knew icons look way better then the current.

I'm sorry but the whole World of Warcraft reference is a bit well, incorrect. Warcraft the single player game was out with icons when one of the creators of AO was only 14 years of age.

As for 50% being sci-fi, well I leave that to this link:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/att...9&d=1313766666

[Marketplace]

I have no problem with the new icons, a bit of variation is nice.

That's true, variation is nice.

I want to stress again, this is not about if the icons are well made, they are, they are great, just if they are more fantasy or sci-fi.

[Aikey]

I really like alot of the new icons, but saying that, I feel that FC have yet again gone overboard with it. Alot of the existing icons were perfect & I personally think alot have been changed just 'for the sake of it'
Yet again there doesn't seem to be a happy medium & it's gone to the extreme end of things, as they often seem to do with AO.

:/

[Litestrider]

I'm sorry but the whole World of Warcraft reference is a bit well, incorrect. Warcraft the single player game was out with icons when one of the creators of AO was only 14 years of age.

As for 50% being sci-fi, well I leave that to this link:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/att...9&d=1313766666

And Warcraft was the first game or application to ever use icons, and transitioned directly into WoW with no other influences, therefore any game that isn't a MUD is trying to be like WoW, right?

Anyway, I open that link and I see a bunch of swirling symbols that, in AO at least, have come to represent virii and viral infections, all of them being deconstructions of the "biohazard" symbol. Very non-fantasy, since that symbol only arose in the 1960s. Then I see a bunch of crosses that represent healing, very nondescript. Then there are a LOT of radiation symbols. That is absolutely not "fantasy", you never see radiation symbols in a setting that predates the nuclear age. Then it goes on with most of the rest of the symbols involving things that are directly represented from the game. Unless you're complaining about the game itself being "not sci-fi", there's no problem here.

So where exactly is the issue? I don't see anything in the symbols whatsoever that says to me "this is a fantasy game".

[Marketplace]

And Warcraft was the first game or application to ever use icons, and transitioned directly into WoW with no other influences, therefore any game that isn't a MUD is trying to be like WoW, right?

Sorry but reread what you replied too. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. The point was that I don't believe that the developers at Blizzard ripped of the Anarchy Online icons as original state. I think that's a rather silly statement. I am not even sure why I am replying to such a statement.

Anyway, I open that link and I see a bunch of swirling symbols that, in AO at least, have come to represent virii and viral infections, all of them being deconstructions of the "biohazard" symbol. Very non-fantasy, since that symbol only arose in the 1960s. Then I see a bunch of crosses that represent healing, very nondescript. Then there are a LOT of radiation symbols. That is absolutely not "fantasy", you never see radiation symbols in a setting that predates the nuclear age. Then it goes on with most of the rest of the symbols involving things that are directly represented from the game. Unless you're complaining about the game itself being "not sci-fi", there's no problem here.

Thank you for your opinion.

[Kintaii]

If by "fantasy" you mean "no longer an indistinct and blurry mess of neon lines" then yeah, I would agree. The old AO nano icons are bad. I'mma just come out and say it - They're bad. The only reason any of *us* can tell, at a glance, what our nanos do is because we've had 10~ years to get used to 'em - Any new person staring at, say, the Trader nano icons without the benefit of the name/description sitting right next to 'em, would most likely be confused as it gets.

The newer nano icons have unique, visible differences to them that weren't always present in the older nano icons - On top of that, as we now have a larger stock of said icons to pull from (and a better method of creating *new* ones), it also means less *repetition* in nano icons. I mean, seriously. Look at this. You can make all sorts of claims as to *why* there's so much repetition, but I don't think anyone can convince me that said repetition is a *good* thing.

I think the major flaw in the question here is that there is no definition placed on what is being termed as "fantasy". If you can explain to people precisely why you feel these icons have a "fantasy" lean, then potentially others might agree with you. However, from at least my own standpoint, I can't really see anything very "fantasy" about (as has been pointed out above) guns, bullets, bombs, hazard symbols and leets. But that's just me. =)

Also, not really related to Game Suggestions - Will probably move this thread once I figure out a more suitable home for it.

Edit: I really wish we had sort of a general "Chat about AO!" forum, but it'd make so many of the other specialized forums redundant. >< Gonna put it in 18.4 for the time being.

[Marketplace]

Also, not really related to Game Suggestions - Will probably move this thread once I figure out a more suitable home for it.

You are right, it is not really game suggestions, thanks for the rest of the reply too.

[Marketplace]

I think the major flaw in the question here is that there is no definition placed on what is being termed as "fantasy". If you can explain to people precisely why you feel these icons have a "fantasy" lean, then potentially others might agree with you. However, from at least my own standpoint, I can't really see anything very "fantasy" about (as has been pointed out above) guns, bullets, bombs, hazard symbols and leets. But that's just me. =)

Maybe it was a bit to open ended question, but I just wanted to hear peoples opinions not go on some icon crusade.

Yes, some elements are sci-fi, the bio-hazard and weapons. But the same can be argued for fantasy, the shield, sword, knives, all the animal icons including adventurer, they body parts including, eyes, lips, flexing muscles, and even the medical cross is very common in fantasy elements.

Maybe it's the flamboyant color scheme that makes me think of fantasy game too.

Here are some examples of other games icons just for fun:

Example #1 - Dragon Age

http://computer.games-4pro.com/wp-co...ning-fight.jpg

Example #2 - Fantasy MMO Asheron's Call released 1999.

http://www.melvinwallerjr.com/AC/images/Wormslayer.jpg

Example #3 - Fantasy MMO Asheron's Call 2 (II)

http://ac2vault.ign.com/site_images/...s/tunnels1.jpg

Example #4 - Everquest 2 Icons

http://www.mmotuga.com/wp-content/up...EQ2_000441.jpg

---

I know I am putting myself up for a royal bashing and flame on the forums, but I stand buy what I said, that's not sci-fi to me, something like this is:

Ex1

http://www.fpstime.com/wp-content/up...05/deus_ex.jpg

Ex2

http://www.kollewin.com/EX/09-16-07/...ible-war-8.jpg

I deliberately didn't pick state of the art game examples, because I didn't want the "you can't compare AO to that" statement.

[Kintaii]

I know I am putting myself up for a royal bashing and flame on the forums, but I stand buy what I said, that's not sci-fi to me, something like this is:

Ex1

http://www.fpstime.com/wp-content/up...05/deus_ex.jpg

Ex2

http://www.kollewin.com/EX/09-16-07/...ible-war-8.jpg

I deliberately didn't pick state of the art game examples, because I didn't want the "you can't compare AO to that" statement.

I think you run into the same problem with these examples, though, because you can't really compare an FPS to an MMORPG in terms of the sheer amount of abilities/items/weapons/'things that need icons'. I mean, let's take Deus Ex as a good example - DE:IW had a total of fifteen augmentations (aka: "abilities") for the player to take, only five of which could be active at any given time. Nano-Technicians have over five hundred nanos available to them alone. For an MMORPG that has a lot of items and things that need icons, there are a lot of good and "cheap" ways to create visible distinction - Colouration is one of them, which is a common running theme I see in your 'fantasy' examples. If we *could* have thousands of items/nanos in game and get away with all of 'em being blue then that'd be cool, but ultimately we'd end up in a worse position than we are right now, with everything looking more and more alike.

Let's take a look at some other sci-fi/modern-day-setting MMORPGs to see how they handle it.

Tabula Rasa: http://tabularasa.wikia.com/wiki/Abi..._training_list
City of Heroes: http://na.cityofheroes.com/global/in...me_info/UI.jpg
Hellgate: London: http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...a-summoner.jpg
Star Wars: Galaxies: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony...ombat_tree.jpg
Star Trek Online: http://mi80.com/uploads/Star-Trek-On...ot-570x356.jpg

I mean, any opinions of the above games aside, I can't really say as they're doing a whole lot different from what we're going for icon-wise, or other MMORPGs on the market. The sort of distinction that they have is imperative in a product that has hundreds of skills and abilities available - Being able to create that distinction is important when someone's going to have to remember, quite literally, what their hundreds of nanos they've uploaded do. In a game where you only have ten or twenty skills to choose between, though, it's a lot easier to pick a basic, centralized 'theme' for your icons and stick precisely to it in the few that you (as an artist/designer) have to crank out. Once you start getting into the triple/quadruple digits, things start to get a little trickier.

Edit: I should also say that trying to make things visually distinct AND managing to cram 'em into a 48x48 texture space also limits your options significantly. It's reaaaaaaalllllllllll easy to make something that looks awesome at 1600x1200 and realize that it kinda looks like a blurry mess once its shrunk down. To an extent, I almost wonder if that's not what happened with the older icons - They probably made them at a much larger resolution, went to shrink 'em down, and didn't have the *time* to make corrections before the game launched. That's just theorycrafting, mind you, and has no basis in reality, but it wouldn't surprise me much given how much time pressure the oldskool AO crew was generally under (not that much has changed there over the years >.@).

[Edta]

I have 2 ways to look at it. Shiny, colorful things can be either:
- Magic. Fantasy has magic, AO has magic. The magic in AO is scientifically explained, making it sci-fi.
- Futuristic. Medieval settings means dirty, rusty. Back then they didn't clean so often, they didn't have the technology to make nice shiny (neon) lights or nicely polished metal or glass surfaces. A futuristic setting means a clean metal /glass shiny look where different colored lights are possible. The icons belong very well into a futuristic setting, it's the games with a medieval setting that are doing it wrong . (To be honest though, the sandy rustic cyberpunk nature of AO makes it not very futuristic in the way I explained it . And taking magic into the equation some medieval towns do have the technology to become very shiny and colorful... I guess my first explanation is the most solid one )

[doctorgore]

Icons are icons. As long as new ones make things easier and not the same icon on 1000s items who cares.

[Keex]

the new icons sure as hell are better than the old ones, so i mean, it is complaining on a very high standard (or in modern terms a '1st World Problem')

also, i didn't think they look any more fantasy'ish (< ??) than the old ones. and after all, AO is also a fantasy game, not a classic one but a 'future fantasy" genre but still... i know, just words after words.. :-)

[Marketplace]

Tabula Rasa: http://tabularasa.wikia.com/wiki/Abi..._training_list
City of Heroes: http://na.cityofheroes.com/global/in...me_info/UI.jpg
Hellgate: London: http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...a-summoner.jpg
Star Wars: Galaxies: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony...ombat_tree.jpg
Star Trek Online: http://mi80.com/uploads/Star-Trek-On...ot-570x356.jpg

I have to agree with you to a certain extent, not because you are Kiantii, but because you just simply have better examples than me above, and Hellgate looks great.

But what you are saying about the sheer amount is a cop out, no offense. There are a myriad of ways that you can create color schemes to denote the strength of a nano program or differentiate it and keep a sci-fi feel, even if it is just as simple as around the border, or with certain opacity, zoom, positioning or other attribute of the object e.g. a pistol. I still think its a step backward with the new icons then forward, no offense. It feels like you are stepping into some kind of a Dark Age of Camelot.

The creation can also be made automatic to a certain extent, take a concrete example of the line of "NT Nukes", they can be made uniform with variations described above depending on the magnitude of damage, without giving them a look like a game from the 90's.

As for the resolution, everyone has to deal with it not just Funcom.

But most importantly, I think you have better things to do, then to debate with me over the board, and that is why I will shut up, and let you work. Thank you for being so dedicated and taking interest in the game to reply on the forums from time to time.

[Marketplace]

the new icons sure as hell are better than the old ones, so i mean, it is complaining on a very high standard (or in modern terms a '1st World Problem')

You are right Keex, it wasn't meant to be a complaint, I was just curious what peoples opinions were, and I appreciate them, even though I will get bashed for even asking such a question.

[Keex]

i didn't mean to 'bash" anyone if you understood it that way, sorry. i just expressed my opinion on that issue, coming to the conclusion that I don't think it is an important issue

[Marketplace]

i didn't mean to 'bash" anyone if you understood it that way, sorry. i just expressed my opinion on that issue, coming to the conclusion that I don't think it is an important issue

No no, didn't say anything of that nature, and you are right it is really not an important topic as such.

[Marketplace]

Icons are icons. As long as new ones make things easier and not the same icon on 1000s items who cares.

Yes, you are right, screw the icons, lets have voice recognition.