What about the veteran labs and paid point bought ones?
What about the veteran labs and paid point bought ones?
All the while the original problem is only shifted, but not gone: For example running out of nano. It doesn't matter if you add crowdcontrol or even more healing, they will eventually run out of nano. More damage works, assuming that it doesn't rely heavily on nano, but that also plays into the soloing department.Originally Posted by Mastablasta
How does more damage and crowdcontrol not beat problems with healing?dmg makes the fight end sooner, and crowdcontrol makes it happen on your premises.
Just to note it here: Players are able to kill stuff on their own now which they couldn't before. So yes, this change was definitively a boost for soloing.
I love playing in teams, it's much more fun than running around on your own. And I'm sure there is always a need for teaming for one thing or another.
Much less powerful. A bit better than the "old" stims, but not much. That means they only delay the issue, but not by much.
And that's exactly the issue. Things you could handle as a team before become tricky now, because all the nano reliant professions, which includes tanking, crowdcontrol and healing, will sooner or later run out of nano. Tanking always had the problem; CC and healing were able to recharge their nano during the fight. The new rechargers won't allow them that anymore, and while the new stims will cover this problem partially, things won't be at the level as it used to be. Which means it makes teaming more difficult, especially when it comes to encounters you cannot just kill in a short amount of time, but have to spend a lot of time on (in relation to how fast the nano pool lasts). One thing I'm going to try sooner than later is to undust my lowbie doc and see how things are with just the new things + battle rechargers. I'm sure the old rechargers will beat that by miles.
So, to sum it all up: Soloers get a boost, teaming gets a kick down, which means you will need more resources now for more difficult fights again. It won't make teaming go away and for many things it won't make much of a difference. To put it into a more visible picture: ToTW twinks may have it even easier now with the big trio (if they put IP into First Aid), teams of "normal" players may need additional assistance now, because their healing runs out of nano at some point. For the more normal stuff in ToTW it doesn't have that much of an impact (unless you are lower level, of course).
As said, I will try to get first hand experience asap, then I can say more about this, but this is what I expect will happen, and that's why I think this change was a pretty stupid move. It's possible to get around this by un-teaming and teaming again; if players have to resort to such methodology the game design is seriously broken, though (or they would have to bring back the old "can't join while team is in fight" ...).
I think you're exaggerating the difficulty increase. Tense moments are not a bad thing.
And let's stop confusing "stims" with "kits", the battleprepared treatment kits do allow use next to stims, and as such combined with the more powerful new stims, you might see less of a disparity between then and now.
Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
The Red Brotherhood
I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.
Means: about f'ing time :P
Satenia: heresy <3
Znore: Mastablasta <3
Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics
How is a boost to soloing a bad thing? Is it really hurting anyone that people can solo a few extra bits of old content?
Also unless the new stims are self only there is nothing stopping a team from chain-stimming the doc if necessary.
I think the biggest problem with this change is to those who got separated from their team (at low level) and need to make a dangerous run to their team using only stims to heal up. Those with 2s HD and ND plus ton of perk heals won't have too much of a problem. I expect casual leveling teams in Subway, ToTW and Foremans to feel the pain most although at Subway levels I expect wearing Med Suit instead of armor makes up for a lot.
They could always ask the team to stop killing things for a second so they can heal up. Or go back and fetch the person.
Once upon the time that would have been realistic expectation but not these days. You are more likely to just get kicked from team because leader doesn't want to see your whining. That is how friendly the community is.
I have to ask - why touch Novictum Refiners at all? They wern't exactly rare - are given away free as part of a quest. Available in shops.
Why do this to this item at all? Why make a tool used on the road to being able to make money from pocket bosses; cost so much in the first place? Surely this can only make less people take up the art of pocket-boss making. Not more.
Someone explain it to me - i'm baffled.
jou will no maek PB symb be rare!
--Clan "Howlin" Messiah
██████
██████
Howlin banned indefinitely by Gorafk Reason: Clan "Howlin" Messiah
I'm not sure why exactly, but one of the other changes supposedly in the patch was to make them *always* available from a certain Yuttos tool vendor.
"Do not try and catch the hamster... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no hamster, only a deadbeat rollerat..."
[Social] Means: I don't think we removed any bosses because of bad pathing...there wouldnt be any left if we did :P
AO Character Skill Emulator and Character Parser and AO Implant Layout Helper
But why always available for 10m or w/e when its just a tradeskill tool with no particularly special powers... It even has fewer uses than most other "tools" out there.
Why not 10k ? or 100k? The nodrop thing seems to be a fix for problem they have just now decided to create for themselves.
I feel like someone has turned over 2 pages at once and now i'm stuck wondering what possible plot-point in the story i could have missed to warrent this.
Imagine if suddently and for no extra reason - screwdrivers cost 10mil and were nodrop...
Thats the world i've woken up in.
Please!! stop giving them more ideas
wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?
I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.
Lets take a look at the stim/kit/recharger old/new/battle version :
1.
HQ Health Laboratory ql150 :
User Treatment >= 677
On Use Target Hit Health 1127 .. 1127
Target Lock Treatment 15s
Battle Prepared Treatment Kit ql150 :
Attack time 3s
User Treatment >= 603 and
On Use User Hit Health 451 .. 451
User Lock Time and space 25s
The Battle Prepared Treatment Kit at the same ql150 have +3 secs of attack speed, make a total of 28 secs, that mean +86% lock time, for only 40% effective. Then the final effective will be (1 / 1.86) * 0.4 = 0.21, meaning to be only 21% as effective as the normal Health Laboratory.
Advanced Nano Recharger ql150 :
User Treatment >= 527
User Time and space >= 527
On Use Target Hit Current nano 1505 .. 1505
Target Lock Time and space 20s
Battle Prepared Nano Recharge Kit ql150 :
Attack time 3s
To Use User Treatment >= 603
User Time and space >= 489
On Use User Hit Current nano 602 .. 602
User Lock Time and space 25s
The Battle Prepared Nano Recharge Kit again at the same ql150 have +3 secs of attack speed, make a total of 28 secs, that mean +40% lock time, for only 40% effective.
Then the final effective will be (1 / 1.4) * 0.4 = 0.28, meaning only 28% effective as the normal Nano Recharger.
2.
Simple First-Aid Kit ql150 :
To Use User First aid >= 677
Target Hit Health 751 .. 752
User Lock First aid 40s
Sophisticated Nano Kit ql150 :
To Use User First aid >= 752
Target Hit Current nano 751 .. 752
User Lock First aid 40s
Health and Nano Stim ql100 :
To Use User First aid >= 752
Target Hit Health 1209 .. 1209
Target Hit Current Nano 1209 .. 1209
The new Health and Nano Stim give health and nano at the same time, with 60% more effective, and a same lock time of 40 secs.
Now lets take a look at a situation that someone need to use constantly all the kits/stim for 60 secs.
New stim + battle recharger version :
For healing :
2 new Health and Nano Stim : 2418 health points
3 Battle Prepared Treatment Kit : 1353 health point
total 3771 health points
Old stim + normal recharge version :
2 Simple First-Aid Kit : 1502 health points
5 Health Laboratory : 5635 health points
Total : 7137 health points
3771 / 7137 = 0.53 meaning only 53% effective of healing if using the new stim + battle rechargers
For nano energy refilling :
2 new Health and Nano Stim : 2418 nano points
3 Battle Prepared Nano Recharge Kit : 1806 nano points
Total : 4224 nano points
Old stim + normal recharge version :
2 Sophisticated Nano Kit : 1502 nano points
4 Advanced Nano Recharger : 6020 nano points
Total : 7522 nano points
4224 / 7522 = 0.56 meaning only 56% effective of nano refilling if using the new stim + battle
rechargers.
The battle version have an attack speed of 3 secs each, to a total of 9 secs by a duration of 60 secs, meaning 15% of time is used only for sitting.
Healing/refilling nano in fight by using rechargers/kits for team members and engineer, crat, mp solo are now reduced of -47% for health and -44% for nano.
Lets take a look at the new Health and Nano Recharger. One that have the same required skill at ql 150 old recharger.
Health and Nano Recharger ql 70
ToUse
Self Treatment >= 527 Or
Self FirstAid >= 527
Target Hit Health 3545
Target Hit CurrentNano 3545
Target LockSkill Treatment For 15 seconds
If someone use it repeating and constantly in a duration of 60 secs it can be used 5 times :
5x3545 = 17725 health points
5x3545 = 17725 nano points.
Lets see what 17725 nano points can do in 60 secs, by a doc by example :
Complete Healing
Nanocost 1400
Attack time 5.5s
Recharge time 8s
To Use User Biological metamorphosis >= 795 and
User Matter metamorphosis >= 723 and
User Visual profession == Doctor
Target Hit Health 10001 .. 10001
If a doc with enough nano initiative can cast it lets say at 1 sec, then with a recharge of 8 secs, this doc can cast 7 times the CH in a duration of 60 secs, to a total of healing of 70000 point of health.
The nano cost of 7 CH is 7x1400 = 9800 points of nano.
17725 - 9800 = 7925 remain of surplus from the recharger.
If the doc use the old recharger as before :
Advanced Nano Recharger ql150 :
User Treatment >= 527
User Time and space >= 527
On Use Target Hit Current nano 1505 .. 1505
Target Lock Time and space 20s
Each recharge give only 1500 nano points, a CH cost 1400 nano points, it is just enough to cast one. Recharger lock 20 secs make the doc have to wait 12 secs more between each CH to keep refilling nano points to full again. In a duration of 60 secs the old recharger can be used 4 times, giving a total of 6020 nano points. Enough to cast CH x 4 with a total cost of 5600 nano points.
6020 - 5600 = 420 still not enough to cast the 5th CH, need to wait 20 secs more.
The healing of 4 CH will be 4x10000 = 40000 of health points.
Now lets look at the efficiency healing/sec :
As above, if the doc use the new rechager then it is possible to cast CH every 9 secs, if the doc use the old rechager then it is possible to cast CH every 20 secs
10000 / 9 = 1111 health point per sec
10000 / 20 = 500 health points per sec
1111 / 500 = 2.2 mean more than double efficiency.
A doc with all expension can probably cast it at lvl 100. For a free account doc it is possible at lvl 125, without mocham. If this doc stay out of team of the tank then can spam CH without any stop until out of new nano recharger.
Last edited by huckleberry; Oct 18th, 2011 at 04:48:29.
In one patch, with the new rechargers, you have successfully done :
1. Reducing of half of health/nano recharge of pets professions in fighting situation, without any
rebalance yet of their professions.
2. Double the effectiveness of pocket doc.
3. Adding situation that can leading to exploit, by humain team.
4. Raising price of needed items in inflation situation.
I don't see the problem with 1, pet profs are still good (except for possibly MPs, who had problems before this change).
2 and 3 can be fixed by changing how combat flagging works (healing a target that is in combat should put you in combat as well, combat should not drop until the monsters are dead/reset/calmed, etc.).
I agree with 4, the new items are too expensive.
I have a 220 Doc and don't see much of a problem with the new things, however, I have lower lvl Docs too, and they suffer BADLY!
Within the teaming range of a lvl60 doc, you can team with an enf that's a reasonable level above you, now you ALL know how much HP a trox enf has...
With no backing from anyone, and noone has put me up to this, I challenge Means himself to come make a fr00b doc and I'll make a fr00b enf, I'll supply both chars with 10mill (or nothing if we wanna do it oldschool), the challenge is to keep me alive till we're lvl60 and we take down Aztur...
The more he keeps me alive, the less time this will take...
No outside help, and he does his own twinking (without an office full of FC workers and GMs to help him) and no org mates to help me.
My chosen proffesions are Engi and Doc, NOT Enforcer, so we're gaining no bonuses there.
And the whole thing to be done only with the new packs and stimms.
If Means can show me that this is workable, then I'll buy it (as I currently am paying monthly subs), if not, I would like a re-look at the whole system.
I should also point out that as many of you may know, I'm AOUniverses Forums Mod, this has NOTHING to do with AOU, and if need be, I'll resign my place there (although I'd prefer not to, it's an inside job with no heavy lifting, CR is what I'm good at...).
Means, this is a friendly (but serious) challenge to show me (and everyone else (this will NOT be done in public)) that the whole idea is viable for new players into the game, if you wanna do this, just send me a PM on this board, I'll get an E-Mail notification and get back to you asap, I understand how busy you are and I can work around your playtimes whatever they may be.
P.S. I just know I'm gonna live to regret this lol.
Last edited by Snakebite; Oct 18th, 2011 at 13:58:42.
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So basically, I can't heal, because someone 16 zones away from me is attacked by a rollerrat? What does *another player* have to do with *my* ability to heal *myself*? Nosensemake and a needless addition. If the new stims heal a TON more so I need to sit down less, I'm all for that, however... But haven't gotten the chance to try them out yet.
You can just leave/rejoin team after using a kit.
Enter a mission with a full team, tell the doc to drop team, profit. Basically.
Just log your 220.
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