18.7.0.22 feedback thread.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

AMEP+onehander will retain some of the HP bonus plus a bit of nanoskills and whatnot... it'll keep us in good shape for AI perks (very good shape) and for proc chance it'll be significantly better.

AS DD capability = meh, but you could also go with shotty perks which might be OK with easy shot anyway, the others are small boost vs engi/doc/sold

[dritst]

Yeah, Silverback isn't viable in my book. Maaaaybe with towers and AS contracts. Otherwise you're simply losing too much HP. And I'll never settle for not-capped AS recharge. With 1700 AS skill, you'd be looking at 13 second cap. Not worth it , Silverback isn't that good.

I'll be most switching back to KEC3. Its going to feel rather weird to reset, reperk and retewink, only to switch into the setup I last used 8 years ago.

Yea that is the prob silverback need too mush AS skill, same for troa'ler https://tl.aoitems.com/item/281506/ who gona be 1,6 recharge.
That let us with Amep/oh (as knuckle stated) or Perfected Diamondine Kick Pistol/oh (trox MR <3) or Kec3 :'<
Well that is without the perk change (demolition line unable to use if you don't have grenade or deadeye nerfed)

[lufa1982]

Yeah. The blocker/reflect/pet heal changes are all decent and should change Engi open-PvP defense from subpar to somewhat competitive again.

But the weapon choices they left us with, ugh. I'd rather poke my eyes out with a fork then use one-hander again. Silverback's not an option without towers, Troa'ler is pointless. I've always liked KEC3 because it looks cool, but in terms of raw damage its obviously a downgrade.

I'd love if they made Grenade viable in PvP, so we could just drop Aimed Shot for good. No idea how exactly they could do this, though. Just increasing Grenade AR isn't going to work. It could have 10k AR and outside of duel situation I'd still prefer AS. Regular hits require you to stand still, and that's just not an option in open fights.

[lufa1982]

Speaking of Grenade, I've noticed Sloth of Xan had a small improvement.

Attack speeds are 1.2/1.2 , down from 1.5/1.5

https://tl.aoitems.com/item/280727/

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I know sloth of xan is retarded but for PVP but it has some really nice bonuses.

I really don't feel like there are any "good" options for engi's in 18.7 which really sucks.

But I feel the same about crats too. like WTF are crats going to do... troaler is just as bad for them, even worse since they have slightly lower AS template than engies (either that or the NM breed caps make it worse)...

I will never do KEC3 it's just such a waste of time and energy with such a big downgrade for AR.

Imo AMEP+OH is a about a 7/10. not great at all, but at least you got some HP bonus, some big AR for AI perks, and retain all the specials for proper spammage, and the burst special has great AR comparatively. It opens up the potential for shotty perks which is not optimal, but it's not bad either, especially to offset loss of DPM with low dmg OH.

On the upside, you could use a lust/IDBEP offhand to supplement DPS on PVT/other PVM activities.

Now, the other thing I was thinking is that you MIGHT be able to use a sloth for PVM/PVT and either swap to remodulator (notably a 45s swap time so you got to clearly go to that well in advance of PVP), OR, what about a bow swap? A Professional Sapphistic bow will get you just as fast an AS as a KEC3 and just as reliable damage if you're only looking for AS.

https://tl.aoitems.com/item/152134/

1591 AS to cap
max dmg 318
crit 382

24m range. Add a 46% weap range scope and the other natural bonuses and you got about 36-40m range.

The only problems with that are the lack of support, but you don't really need that much IP if you aren't attached to hitting top MBS. Inits don't worry about them since you should be moving, and, grenade perks work regardless of weap type... I mean, it ain't ideal but I guess its something.

[Louderer789]

Back before Tiger I was using Sapphistic, along with 1001 brawling (for the stun chance), harmonize body and mind, all sorts of fun stuff. But its ridiculous for engineers to be going backwards to swap weapons and such madness when Funcom seems committed to making quality of life changes... Seriously - either provide a viable AS gun for support profs to use or get to work making aimed shot obsolete like Means promised to do back in 2009.

As for grenade perks "working"....yeah no...unless you mean on doctors and greens.

I do agree there are no good options. I tried AMEP+OH back when Troa'ler came out, the weapon range and crap damage are pretty frustrating. Although I already had a fixer so maybe I just didn't want to have another character stuck using it. I never tried KEC but it seems like it is just as easy to cap a 1.6 weapon as it is to keep KEC 100%, plus pistol or shotgun has the benefit of semi-landable perks and Tiger has the benefit of not needing any perks at all.

[Ciex]

If you want pvm dmg in amep / oh you just swap oh with lust and thats it. It doesnt take much ip in mr.

[lufa1982]

Yeah, Sapphistic allows you to swap into Dimach/Brawl/Harmonize Body and Mind. But, the AS won't be nearly as reliable as KEC3 , since you're losing hefty amount of add damage.

Ultimately though, those are all literally 2005 setups, so no matter what you'll pick, its a sizeable downgrade.

[Mostadio]

Ugh, sap bow. Let's not go back down that dusty road again Popping someone with a surprise dimach every half hour had its lulz factor, but was a pointless IP sink when looking at the big picture. Probably the weirdest pvp setup I've ever used. AMEP/OH? Probably our best bet for viable offense, even though we'd rather eat broken glass than strap that POS on. I never liked KEC3. Lose all the benefits of the sap bow just for a steadier AS and a bunch of perks that won't land? This does not appeal. For grenade to work in pvp it'd have to do something weird like the remodulator. Like previously mentioned, our pvp setups revolve around the O button and until that changes, we're kinda screwed.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I got two options i'm seriously considering:

1. Troaler+diamondine kick pistol

The benefit of this setup is we got a kinda of hidden boost... AMEP+OH is OK as everyone knows, but is really weak on fling/AS. the diamondine+troaler setup is slower on AS but has really solid regular damage, more regular AS damage, very good fling damage and will perform fairly reasonably for stuff like PVT with PVP scrimmages.

2. From 1. kick pistol has 1450 MR requ which means potential to swap: with proper IP shotty maxed, we can then swap to a silverback setup for raw, all out PVP

I dunno I think this setup will be better than AMEP+OH but will obviously require scope/full CC/CSS for keeping AS aslow recharge as possible. 1.6 rech on troa'ler = 1700ish AS skill I think for the 11s AS

[Louderer789]

1.6 rech on troa'ler = 1700ish AS skill I think for the 11s AS

1747, they have the formula integrated into aoitems so you don't even need to guess. Every 25 you are short adds another second to your recharge. If you've never tried to cap a 1.6 weapon on your engy here's what it looks like: 300 imps in eye, wrist, and hand, 275 VE, Sniper's Friend, and +30 AS on every armor piece (Crepescule Jacket and Beast sleeve being swappable alternatives to combined). Opifex can lose a piece of armor or Sniper's Friend, Atrox probably can't reach cap without weird bracers and crap. It's a very inflexible setup especially if you don't want to keep ATE 3 perked (and who does?).

1. Troaler+diamondine kick pistol
The benefit of this setup is we got a kinda of hidden boost... AMEP+OH is OK as everyone knows, but is really weak on fling/AS. the diamondine+troaler setup is slower on AS but has really solid regular damage, more regular AS damage, very good fling damage and will perform fairly reasonably for stuff like PVT with PVP scrimmages.

Having "decent" AS in addition to easy shot is nice. Though you lose AR for AI perks (~300-500? I forget), and a lot of AR on burst both from having it come from PDKP instead of AMEP and from having to choose between burst and shotgun in implant.

2. From 1. kick pistol has 1450 MR requ which means potential to swap: with proper IP shotty maxed, we can then swap to a silverback setup for raw, all out PVP

My rough calcs have a 220 soli engy with maxed shotgun, maxed shotgun mastery, maxed COLA, triple imped in full cc at about 1700 shotgun. So there's not gonna be any swapping...

[Louderer789]

Well actually probably a bit more leeway think there's 50-60 AS from trickle I forgot to count.

[lufa1982]

All the AS formulas that are flying around are slightly off, the actual hardcap cap for Tiger and Silverback is around 1770.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

All the AS formulas that are flying around are slightly off, the actual hardcap cap for Tiger and Silverback is around 1770.

That's wrong actually, the hardcap is 11.6 seconds so you can't get "under" that because the AS cap is 10s+attack time, technically.

@Louderer My soli engi has AS imp in eye/wrist (Rhand is control symb), I use full CC/CSS and snipers friend is swappable. 275 scope is a permanent fixture.

With a 150 tower site I put down a 150 ransacking and With that I swap out snipers friend for a nano controlling unit. With that setup I can cast Isoto's with no swaps. PVP is slightly more annoying because I have to swap the infused nano skill thingy from alb to cast MB.

I also use intel in bright in eye for trickle skills which actually adds about 25 or so to all skills. Paired with full gauntlet armour in Rshould/Lshould/Back i'm in a pretty decent setup full time imo. I have zero problems keeping troaler above AS cap and it's been that way for over a year.

The change on trolaer on my engi is basically a slight variation on the recharge, but nothing substantial.

I used to use some HP slots on engi but I found that the all out AS setup was superior for 90% of PVP combat.

AR pistol hover at 2900ish AR and isn't enough to perk most classes but I've found that I can hold out and put pressure on most classes long enough that help will show up. I don't duel on him anymore.

[lufa1982]

That's wrong actually, the hardcap is 11.6 seconds so you can't get "under" that because the AS cap is 10s+attack time, technically.

That's exactly what the problem is. Whoever reverse engineered the formulas thought the hardcap is 11. In practice you're not going to get 11s in the client until 1760-1770ish skills, anything below and the client will round up the recharge to 12.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Huh, I am not following.

The hardcap is 10s on any weapon with the adjustment being the att time.

You can't get 11s in the client. you should only be able to get 12s based on rounding.

[lufa1982]

You can't get 11s in the client. you should only be able to get 12s based on rounding.

Nope. The weapons with 1.6 and 1.7 recharge will go down to 11 sec in the client.Try it with enough skill and you'll see, instead of making theories out of paper.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I did try it.

My MA has a 300 Ofab tiger on it and 1897 AS skill. But I don't remember what the numbers were when I checked it, but I ran around in a BY killing leets for a while last week.

I'll take your word for it.

So how much skill is actually needed 1760? That's a lot... I think Michi tryin to break AO now

[lufa1982]

~!760ish , I don't remember what exactly it was, George W. Bush was president last time I was Tiger.

What I do remember the bunch of us going Tiger on Crats and Engis, this was like 2008, and finding out the hard way that formula is off by 20-25 points.

[Wakizaka]

I also use intel in bright in eye for trickle skills which actually adds about 25 or so to all skills.

44 Intel does not add 25 to all skills. It only adds 11 to pure 100% intel reliant skills.
For your nanoskills, it's only 9 points.