Multi weilding...

[Zwelgje]

There have been multiple dicussions over dual weilding being a good thing and there damage increase, the ability of using more specials, twice the weapon bonus etc..

Should all professions be able to dual (and even triple) wield a weapon. Yes! The option should be there for all however some should have it more easy then others. And perhaps not all combination might be in there reach..

Currently the requirement for dual wielding is, besides the weapon requirement, to fulfill at least the lowest of the two Multi wield req of the two weapons you like to equip..

My problem (and perhaps others.. that's what this thread is for) is this from the Advy point of view...: As an Adventurer I have green multi wield skill, buff's, perks and items to help me with this multi wield requirement. As such it implicates that we are almost destined to use 2 weapons at a time. However most of the other professions are able to do this as well, with the effect of haveing the same increase in damage, proc, extra specials and other benefits increase. This is even more fueled by good weapons that have low multi wield requirements to make it easy to equip a second weapon......

So the combination of the lowest req, and the availability of those low req multi wield weapons make it possible for any profession to equip nearly the best there is available at hardly no cost.. This doesn’t sound right and makes the skill almost unnecessary with the exception of a few combinations. Also the reason to IP multi wield (which is a penalty by it selves and the cost of using 2 weapons at a time) has hardly any effect on the IP distribution for other professions (as hardly no IP is needed).

* Therefore I'd like to propose the easy fix of changing the requirement check into the highest multi range value (instead of the lowest) when equipping a second weapon..
And some itemization for a few weapons to make it less favorable to use that weapon as a second, because now it will cost you IP....

[DarkerThanBlack]

I agree with the OP, the troa'ler pistol has to go. Although idk why you'd complicate things so much by working around the problem instead of working on the problem.

[Raggy]

No. No. No. No. No. No.

Don't screw over everybody because you want Advies to have another benefit. What about the absurd MM/MR reqs on Kyr'ozch weapons? Everyone will be using ql99 weapons all the way up to 151 if this ever became a thing.

HUGE no.

[Litestrider]

I don't see anything wrong here. For a lot of professions, dual wielding is a huge investment of ip and requires some really nasty twinking. Adventurer's buffs and whatnot means that you don't have to spend nearly as much IP to get the same effect, and you can dual-wield weapons with much higher requirements while most other professions will have a lackluster offhand. Adventurers DO have it easier than others. Straight up restricting a bunch of weapons or requiring everyone else to dump a ton more IP into everything is just pointless and mean.

What I think should be the focus instead is giving us some real reason to single wield. Right now dual-wielding gives you more attacks (which means misses hurt less in the short term), more procs, more damage, generally more specials, and more mods from your weapons. Two-handed weapons might have a very slight increase in raw damage, but not usually, and completely miss out on everything else. And one-handing a one-handed weapon is just completely non-viable, I've seen it only a handful of times, like a low trader one-handing a huge FSS because they didn't have the multi ranged to put on anything that wouldn't drag their weapon down (hey look, multi ranged is a restriction on other professions, how about that?)


Unfortunately the only ways I can think of to fix that issue involve a lot of dev work, retouching basically the whole weapon database, or making every proc check for whether you're dual wielding, or other things that would involve tons of edits. Probably not something that's going to get done. But still, I think it'd be really good for the game, and could pretty easily address the concern you're raising here in a less "nerf everybody, buff me" kind of way, by getting other professions to dual wield less in favor of better single wielding, while adventurer can stick with the twin weapons they're known for.

[haxi]

So nerf everyone else because Advy is special. This will go over well.

[Zwelgje]

No. No. No. No. No. No. Don't screw over everybody because you want Advies to have another benefit. What about the absurd MM/MR reqs on Kyr'ozch weapons? Everyone will be using ql99 weapons all the way up to 151 if this ever became a thing. HUGE no.

It would also mean the adventurers would need to IP more in MM or MR. And others will have it harder or some combinations wont be able any more. True but no loss. That AI weapons scale weird till 99, 199 special edition and the first upgrade of Xan 1HB and Pistol should be addressed too as part of the itemization. Any setup without IP with special editions AI equals +/- QL 275 average AI setup. Very OP for 0 amount invested.

[Raggy]

It would also mean the adventurers would need to IP more in MM or MR. And others will have it harder or some combinations wont be able any more. True but no loss. That AI weapons scale weird till 99, 199 special edition and the first upgrade of Xan 1HB and Pistol should be addressed too as part of the itemization. Any setup without IP with special editions AI equals +/- QL 275 average AI setup. Very OP for 0 amount invested.

No loss?

In one fell swoop you'd make it impossible for Shotgun Traders to level with the FSS/Bazzit combo and you'd utterly invalidate MA for anyone until 220.

Awfully thought out idea.

[Zwelgje]

I agree with the OP, the troa'ler pistol has to go. Although idk why you'd complicate things so much by working around the problem instead of working on the problem.

Have you read the Silverback will be unlocked too all professions? Troa'ler will crap it's pants compared to that AS..

[Zwelgje]

No loss? In one fell swoop you'd make it impossible for Shotgun Traders to level with the FSS/Bazzit combo and you'd utterly invalidate MA for anyone until 220. Awfully thought out idea.

Partially true, people wont be able to use the lol top QL of every thing. As they shouldn't. And so not true. MA doesnt need weapons at all. That you choose to use weapons should come at a cost if you want to dual them. Stop playing easy mode...

[Poko]

Partially true, people wont be able to use the lol top QL of every thing. As they shouldn't. And so not true. MA doesnt need weapons at all. That you choose to use weapons should come at a cost if you want to dual them. Stop playing easy mode...

You aswell.

[Raggy]

Have you read the Silverback will be unlocked too all professions? Troa'ler will crap it's pants compared to that AS..

Did you also read that the Silverback AS cycle has been nerfed into the ground?

Partially true, people wont be able to use the lol top QL of every thing. As they shouldn't. And so not true. MA doesnt need weapons at all. That you choose to use weapons should come at a cost if you want to dual them. Stop playing easy mode...

HAHAHAHAHA. YOU CANNOT ACTUALLY BE SERIOUS.

Please, go roll both a Shotgun Trader and an MA Trader and level with them and then come back to this thread lmfao.

[DarkerThanBlack]

Partially true, people wont be able to use the lol top QL of every thing. As they shouldn't. And so not true. MA doesnt need weapons at all. That you choose to use weapons should come at a cost if you want to dual them.

And fixers would need 1750 MR to use a ql 188 froob weapon which is the only thing that makes them a viable pvp profession.

Stop playing easy mode...

Said the adventurer.


It's sad what the professional program has degraded to, when people this ignorant are the ones funcom seek to communicate with. RIP AO.

[Scottik]

http://some.ly/RkJN3z

[Zwelgje]

Please, go roll both a Shotgun Trader and an MA Trader and level with them and then come back to this thread lmfao.

Done and been melee and ranged on and off, piercing, MA ( very much fun) and 2h and dual shotty or RE or SMG.. MA would still do good and so would shotty.. Dual play isnt manditory in any way...

[Raggy]

Done and been melee and ranged on and off, piercing, MA ( very much fun) and 2h and dual shotty or RE or SMG.. MA would still do good and so would shotty.. Dual play isnt manditory in any way...

Then why have it at all, get rid of it entirely. Advy doesn't need it either clearly.

[Zwelgje]

And fixers would need 1750 MR to use a ql 188 froob weapon which is the only thing that makes them a viable pvp profession. Said the adventurer. It's sad what the professional program has degraded to, when people this ignorant are the ones funcom seek to communicate with. RIP AO.

Nop but if that's your opinion I'm fine with that.... Some professions have still a spot open you are free too .....

[DarkerThanBlack]

It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

[Krustyleet87]

So what about the people with twinks in place that have twinked based on the current MM/MR requirements? Does FC strip their weapons and make them re-twink or do they just have a leg up over everyone after the change since they twinked the "old" way or using old MM/MR reqs?

I'm not really seeing a good way for FC to implement this without screwing over current twinks or future ones...

[Ophiuchus]

Ouch. No. I say that as a dual wielding everything (well ok Keeper doesn't dual). It's fairly obvious that certain weapons are prevented from being dual wielded very deliberately by having insane DW reqs, and doing this is a better route than pulling the old Unique crap or locking a weapon to one particular hand, killing options. So you equip something else offhand. This proposal would mean you can equip next to NOTHING worthwhile offhand.

Advs in 18.7 are looking foreveralone but a suggestion like this is not the way to make it all better - to hit everyone else with the nerf bat.

Yeah I just sucked up IPing some MR to get my Hatreds back on after fIPR, but that's life. My Engi had to do it too, especially becasue she hotswaps weapons. It just meant I was able to save a fair bit more IP on the Adv which I'm currently keeping hold of for Deflect.

[Zwelgje]

Ouch. No. I say that as a dual wielding everything (well ok Keeper doesn't dual).

To be honest this kinda sum's up the problem.

@ Raggy; It used to be kinda part of a tool-set, a feature, something people had to make a lot of effort to be able to. It costs IP therefore is wasn't always favourable. It isn't any more and Ophiuchus said it already that all but his Solper is wielding dual...

This suggestion would for instance mean that my Advy PvM setup would require a lot more MR because of the commonly used main Twitch pistols. It would raise the req. over the FA pistol at such low req.

@ Dark; fact that you consider it the only viable route, is entirely your opinion. But it is, kinda sad that PvP has to rely on a QL 188 froob weapon in the first place (Not discussing AS and PvP here in general). No I don't think this is wrong because you choose to equip a low QL next to a Endgame weapon. The higher weapon should therefore set the requirements...

I believe there are some really nice FA Soldiers that don't use AS. I did PvP on the Advy with FA before Troa'Ler, and on the occasion I still do if I'm PvM perked. I do oke (not great) and have to pick my fights..