Agents Weapon skills - Blue, Blue and Dark Blue

[Louderer789]

Simple example:

Soldier: (ASR 1) (Fling 1) (AS 1.8)
Fixer: (SMG 1) (Fling 1.6) (AS 2.5)
Advy: (Pistol 1) (Fling 1) (AS 2.2)
Agent: (Rifle 1.3) (Fling 3.2) (AS 1.1)

Ok but all of those profs have to also IP fullauto and/or multirange as well, which brings their expenditure on weaponskills to be about the same as agent...

All have his main weapon skill at 1 - why not Agent?

Seems FC decided you ought to spend more? But still not as much as 2hb for enfo or shotgun for trader or any weapon for support profs? Why complain?

All have not more than 2.5 on second special - Agent habe 3.2 -> why?

Because the skill costs were decided in 2001, and Agent didn't use fling until 2004?

[Hekthor]

Ok but all of those profs have to also IP fullauto and/or multirange as well, which brings their expenditure on weaponskills to be about the same as agent...

To Use a Second Special isnt a good argument, Soldier doenst need to rise all Nanoskills and NanoC.Init to max....

Seems FC decided you ought to spend more? But still not as much as 2hb for enfo or shotgun for trader or any weapon for support profs? Why complain?

Enfo have the one of the biggest AR amount ingame and Trader can drain up to 400 weapon skills + AAO

Because the skill costs were decided in 2001, and Agent didn't use fling until 2004?

Yeah exaclty and this is the reason for this, because i think this need a Update. If on every weapon is Fling Shot, then pls change it!

My Suggestion Agent: (Rifle 1.1) (Fling 2.2) (AS 1.1)

[Auct]

Using the skill chart from AOFroobs, I have summed the skill costs for each profession.

Adv 117.6
Age 135.7
Bur 180.9
Doc 161.8
Enf 141.3
Eng 166.8
Fix 132.6
Kee 181.5
MA 148.6
MP 176.0
NT 175.0
Sha 179.8
Sol 133.5
Tra 146.2

This is a rough measure, as obviously not everyone will IP every skill and these numbers aren't all exactly correct (I have removed Map Nav and Swimming values, but the table hasn't been updated with the Keeper ME changes), but it does give a relative impression of the differences. I'll let people draw their own conclusions from it.

[Tsuniko]

inb4 cries of: "But we need piercing and sneak and multi melee for phulaks and tradeskills for making crabz!!!"

[Hekthor]

Using the skill chart from AOFroobs, I have summed the skill costs for each profession.

Adv 117.6
Age 135.7
Bur 180.9
Doc 161.8
Enf 141.3
Eng 166.8
Fix 132.6
Kee 181.5
MA 148.6
MP 176.0
NT 175.0
Sha 179.8
Sol 133.5
Tra 146.2

This is a rough measure, as obviously not everyone will IP every skill and these numbers aren't all exactly correct (I have removed Map Nav and Swimming values, but the table hasn't been updated with the Keeper ME changes), but it does give a relative impression of the differences. I'll let people draw their own conclusions from it.

Summed the skill costs for each profession is a logical mistake imo because to sum up means that you count skills that are not important for the specific profession

[doctorgore]

The agent has always been a born failure...

[Auct]

Summed the skill costs for each profession is a logical mistake imo because to sum up means that you count skills that are not important for the specific profession

I recognise that it doesn't provide a detailed analysis of each professions cost vs needs (and tried to recognise that in my post), however it is a mathematical representation of the assertion earlier in this topic that Agents already have a higher proportion of cheaper skills than many other professions. Perhaps this is in compensation for your highlighted issue of the perceived need to max more skills.

As an aside, perhaps you're expectation of what an agent should be able to do is little unreasonable. You state that, for example, Advs have a better defensive toolset than agents with "tons of survival and heal" and therefore agents should be compensated with higher offensive skills, yet agents could choose to have an MP healpet while FP Doc (unless this changed with 18.7) for a high survivability build. Or they could FP Trader for a high AR build. Or any other prof to take advantage of their toolset. To balance this capability, you shouldn't be able to do it all with one build, you should have to chose between different potential strengths with the acceptance of the weakness that is associated with it. For me, this is the essence of what makes an Agent interesting, not a drawback.

[Tom-Po]

are you sure? i just ran the numbers for a 220 trox agent here: http://nano.exofire.net/skills.php and i was able to max all abilities, body dev, nano pool, all evades, nr, runspeed, rifle, as, nano init, comp lit, all nanoskills, treat, first aid, conceal and preception and still had 934930 ips to spare. did i miss anything? this was a super rough eyeballing of ip expenditure at tl7. the only things i didn't put ip into was fling and ranged init but there's enough ip for both of those if you trim on nanoskills and comp lit after twinking into alphas. in short, i don't see what the problem is...

In-game I fully resetted my 220 agent (opifex) because I needed to redistribute anyways. Applied everything in exact order as mentioned but when I came to the point to max first aid, first aid was maxed to 95 percent and I didn't had any IP left over and still had to max conceal and perception (and ranged init of course). Just want to say you have to be very precise and not to just max everything.

[Hekthor]

In-game I fully resetted my 220 agent (opifex) because I needed to redistribute anyways. Applied everything in exact order as mentioned but when I came to the point to max first aid, first aid was maxed to 95 percent and I didn't had any IP left over and still had to max conceal and perception (and ranged init of course). Just want to say you have to be very precise and not to just max everything.

Ty, that's what i am talking about!

[Auct]

Can I ask why there is the need to max all nano skills? Looking at the agent nano list on aoitems, there is no requirement to raise TS above 862 (for Superior Hold Victim). As this is the most expensive nano skill for agents to raise (2.4 vs 1.6 or less) it is going to eat IP quickly. I accept that raising TS will improve the chance of landing it, but it's fair that it can come as a tradeoff.

[Tom-Po]

Can I ask why there is the need to max all nano skills? Looking at the agent nano list on aoitems, there is no requirement to raise TS above 862 (for Superior Hold Victim). As this is the most expensive nano skill for agents to raise (2.4 vs 1.6 or less) it is going to eat IP quickly. I accept that raising TS will improve the chance of landing it, but it's fair that it can come as a tradeoff.

There is no need to do that. I just want to make a point that it's not wise to blindly believe in what a online tool (or offline like ao skill emulator) give as a result. Even though it is by estimation, it still is a huge difference between maxed skills with 900k ip left and missing 3 maxed skills with 0 ip left.

[Hekthor]

Can I ask why there is the need to max all nano skills? Looking at the agent nano list on aoitems, there is no requirement to raise TS above 862 (for Superior Hold Victim). As this is the most expensive nano skill for agents to raise (2.4 vs 1.6 or less) it is going to eat IP quickly. I accept that raising TS will improve the chance of landing it, but it's fair that it can come as a tradeoff.

At first you need more than 862 TS , Snare/Root Removal line needs up to 960 TS in Mimic, meas you need over 1011 to cast these in mimic. If you only skill to 1011, the change to land a root is like 0.01 %. When you have TS at 1011~, TS is skilled at 60% of maximum.

[Auct]

There is no need to do that. I just want to make a point that it's not wise to blindly believe in what a online tool (or offline like ao skill emulator) give as a result. Even though it is by estimation, it still is a huge difference between maxed skills with 900k ip left and missing 3 maxed skills with 0 ip left.

Thanks for the clarification.

At first you need more than 862 TS , Snare/Root Removal line needs up to 960 TS in Mimic, meas you need over 1011 to cast these in mimic. If you only skill to 1011, the change to land a root is like 0.01 %. When you have TS at 1011~, TS is skilled at 60% of maximum.

Yes, I missed those, dangers of trying to use aoitems on a small phone screen!