Atrox Beta Genome

[Ashes2Ashes]

Looking at the other breeds secondary genome perks, I gotta say the Atrox line is a little underwhelming. Give a lil more incentive to perk secondary rather than primary, as 95% of professions will wind up only perking 1 line and not 2. Not asking for alot, it's almost where it should be, just a lil more and I think it would suffice.

Fully perked Atrox Secondary Genome 10:

Wit of the Atrox: 1200 AC. +500 Max Health
My Way: +600 Health every 5 sec (20s) = 3000 Heal (2 min lockout)
My Own Fortress: 3000 AC (20s), +2-3k Heal (2 min 30s lockout)

Total Bonus: +500 Max Health, +5000-6000 Heal (using 2 perk actions) the way AC's are, the bonus seems trivial as most are running around at 10k+ AC's already.

The 2 Atrox heal perks added together ammount to less than/equal to 1 capped hit in pvp on a 20k hp character, which alot of Atroxes will probably be running around with. Note that these heals are on a 2 min, and 2 min 30s timer.
1 capped hit = 6k, but the 2 heal perks added together = +5000-6000 Hp. So relatively not too powerful.



Comparing this perk line to other secondary genome lines...



Solitus - Survival +5000hp/ +5000nano (18s) - Team

What can I say, 1 perk does more than both trox heal perks, and it effects all team mates (wow, thats really nice, health and nano!). This is a really nice genome perk, and I feel it's balanced. But thats not all, they also have Tacky Hack, and Feel which is a nice small Hp/Nano HoT. Both of which are really nice, and not overpowered. This is a nice secondary genome to perk.


Opifex - Adapt - Absorb 1 special, or 1 normal attack every 4 seconds (duration 20s) - self

So / so perk action, that has the potential for being the best defensive genome perk, depending on how lucky you are when thier attack hits you (but could really use more work/improved/changed). Dizzying Heights, seems a bit meh to me, but then again can be very useful / lifesaver with the ammount of init debuffs getting tossed around. Derivate perma 100 AAD, very nice too, I like this one best out of all the first perk options out of secondary line, followed closely by the solitus feel perk.

Nanomage - Notum Shield - 25% damage to nano (20s), + 2500-3500 nano

Looks nice, similar to prisoner robe effect. Add that together with Pen's perma effect for an additional 10% dam to nano. Finally Notum Spring 600 nano x5 (20s) = 3000 nano. Maybe not enough nano regen, might need some adjustment.



TL;DR version: Boost Atrox Secondary Genome a little bit, to give some incentive to perk this line rather than primary. Make it a bit more in line with what other breeds are recieving from thier secondary genome.

[Xenotric]

Well hopefully there looking at revamping AC's aswell as making weapons have a range that doesnt get completely closed by a tiny ammount of AC's some weapons take 30k+ ac's so if more weapons like that come into play AC's might be worth while.

As for Adapt, its 1 special/normal hit blocker every 4 seconds, not 1 of each as far as the document tells us and as it checks before evades and such it means that a single hit with a leet doll every 4 seconds would eliminate the defense.

If AC's get reworked and made a viable part of defense I'd say the trox line wont be that bad (its not bad for pvm atmo) but yeah untill more details are released about the total changes it does seem to be below atleast the nano and soli line

[Ashes2Ashes]

Your right Xenotric, after looking at the pdf again. It is only (Absorbs one normal/special hit every four seconds). I will adjust that in the original post. Ya, it would be nice if AC's got a rework. Seems nowadays all you need is around 10k to force opponants to hit for near min.

[Xenotric]

its these darn ofab weapons and such that FC decided to give 50 damage range or such on... wouldnt be so bad if AC's reduced min damage aswell (at a reduced rate of course) would mean high AC classes and breed choices could be uber. The same weapons also make inits almost redundant past a certain point as its easy enough to get em to 1/1 in full defense so +inits beyond that point are just there to try and counteract init debuffs (a futile endevour considering the amount they can be debuffed by)

More weapons with big ranges help aswell, a trader with the ql 300 turnspirited shotgun takes about 30-40k ac to reduce the damage to a low amount, thats not really feasible for people to obtain these days as everyone goes for low AC high stat armour and such. But because its unpredictable no one uses weapons like that anymore

[Fifty50]

Opifex - Adapt - Absorb 1 special, or 1 normal attack every 4 seconds (duration 20s) - self

Very nice perk action, and has the potential for being the best defensive genome perk, depending on how lucky you are when thier attack hits you. Dizzying Heights, seems a bit meh to me, but then again can be very useful / lifesaver with the ammount of init debuffs getting tossed around. Derivate perma 100 AAD, very nice too, I like this one best out of all the first perk options out of secondary line, followed closely by the solitus feel perk.

This is only impressive to the untrained eye/mind, it's too easy to work around.. You are fighting a retard if this is gonna block anything significant. The up to 4 second time window between blocks make sure of that. It also does nothing versus damaging nano attacks or perks. All the other defensive genomes works again ANY type of damage.

Thus, Adept is conditional and can be worked around.
A possible fix is adding nano/perk blockers to it, and all the blockers at once.

[Xenotric]

adapt is the only defensive perk from the genomes that can be completely devastated by a leet doll

[Louderer789]

Survival current: 3480 (avg) heal per use, 2 minute recharge: 1740 healing per minute
Survival new: 5000 heal per use, 2.5 minute recharge: 2000 healing per minute

Increase: 15% (plus the nano refill)

Trox beta current: 0 healing
Trox beta new: 3000* + 2500 (avg) heal per use, total = 5500. 3000/2min + 2.5k/2.5m: 2500 healing per minute

increase: a lot


As you can clearly see when looking at the numbers, the Atrox perks in fact offer better healing over time than the Solitus ones, and considering Atrox perks previously did not heal at all, it's a fairly big change. Furthermore, Atrox perks have other advantages associated with them. For instance, you can both have a heal perk, and still be trox (with mongo rage). Because of body dev and the +500 hp buff, Trox will have a 2k-2.5k max hp advantage. My Own Fortress being instant instead of a HoT also much nicer for healing up big damage.

RE: "Feel": Really rather one of the weaker breed buffs IMO, honestly 600hp/300nano per minute at 220 is not a huge advantage, but all of the passive buffs kind of pale in comparison to nanomage perks in the hands of a class with a large nanopool.

*I am assuming, despite the perk documentation not specifying, that "My Way" will work like Survival, in that it will tick at 0s, 5s, 10s, 15s, 20s, for a total of 5 ticks and 3000 healing.

[Perskules]

but trox loosing wit of the atrox. 320 dodge perk was reason for many to roll atrox

[Ashes2Ashes]

Survival current: 3480 (avg) heal per use, 2 minute recharge: 1740 healing per minute
Survival new: 5000 heal per use, 2.5 minute recharge: 2000 healing per minute

Increase: 15% (plus the nano refill)

Trox beta current: 0 healing
Trox beta new: 3000* + 2500 (avg) heal per use, total = 5500. 3000/2min + 2.5k/2.5m: 2500 healing per minute

increase: a lot


As you can clearly see when looking at the numbers, the Atrox perks in fact offer better healing over time than the Solitus ones, and considering Atrox perks previously did not heal at all, it's a fairly big change. Furthermore, Atrox perks have other advantages associated with them. For instance, you can both have a heal perk, and still be trox (with mongo rage). Because of body dev and the +500 hp buff, Trox will have a 2k-2.5k max hp advantage. My Own Fortress being instant instead of a HoT also much nicer for healing up big damage.

RE: "Feel": Really rather one of the weaker breed buffs IMO, honestly 600hp/300nano per minute at 220 is not a huge advantage, but all of the passive buffs kind of pale in comparison to nanomage perks in the hands of a class with a large nanopool.

*I am assuming, despite the perk documentation not specifying, that "My Way" will work like Survival, in that it will tick at 0s, 5s, 10s, 15s, 20s, for a total of 5 ticks and 3000 healing.

Ok, to be more specific (and fair), we will count perk healing action in both Solitus, and Atrox Genome.


Healing per minute:

Solitus:
Survival = 5000 / 2.5 = 2000
Feel = 600 / 1 = 600 || 300 / 1 = 300
Solitus Total Heal / Nano Per Minute = 2600 Hp + 2300 Nano

Atrox:
My Way = 3000 / 2 = 1500
My Own Fortress = 2500 / 2.5 = 1000
Atrox Total Heal Per Minute = 2500 Hp

Also, we can't forget that the solitus Survival perk not only heals yourself, but your whole team. Everyone always touts that pvp is balanced around team, and not solo play. So this extra 5k healing to team, cannot be discounted. Also add in the fact that it fills up 5k nano too for the whole team, and the relative power of the perk actions drastically changes in favor of the solitus.

So what perk actions do we have left out of both the Solitus, and Atrox genome perks?

Solitus:
Tacky Hack = 90% Root / Snare Resistance + Reduce Root / Snare 100,000 seconds (15s Duration) 2m recharge

Atrox:
Wit of the Atrox = 1200 AC + 500 Max Health (4 Hour buff)

Like I said in the original post. I am not looking for any drastic changes, just a small tweak, I feel Atrox Beta is almost balanced. It just needs a little something more to put it in line with the rest. Survival healing +5k hp +5k nano for the whole team in (18 seconds) can make a big differance in pvp, especially when more than one solitus happens to be in team.

[Ashes2Ashes]

I would also like to add different look at the relative power of the perks and how it may effect your grouping experiance. Why would you pick a Trox/Opi/NM off of lft, when a Solitus of the same profession happens to be lft as well? This is why you have to 'count' in the bonus of the solitus perks effecting the team, and not just a personal effect.

It doesn't matter if they are alpha, or beta perked. Currently Solitus offers a pretty big advantage over the other breeds when it comes to team dynamics.

Solitus:
Survival +5k Heal, +5k Nano for the whole team. (+2k Hp / +2k Nano per minute)
Sphere +125 AAO, +125 AAD, +25% Crit Mod for the whole team.

So I ask, when it comes to balancing genome perks. Please take this into consideration when looking at what other breeds currently have to offer. It's been hinted at, that in the future professions may be struggling to 'Not run out of nano'. If this is indeed true, then solitus will definately be the "go-to" breed when choosing potential team members.

I am not bashing Solitus, or asking for a nerf. I really like thier genome perks the way they are. I am just simply asking that when balancing the other breed genomes, that this 'team effect' on thier perks isn't overlooked, as it really is quite a decision maker when picking who you want on your team. So please, a small boost to the other breeds genomes isn't too much to ask for.

[Notcrattey]

I would also like to add different look at the relative power of the perks and how it may effect your grouping experiance. Why would you pick a Trox/Opi/NM off of lft, when a Solitus of the same profession happens to be lft as well?

Who the hell picks people off LFT for their breed? There's no guarantee they even have the genomes perked AT ALL.

[Ashes2Ashes]

Who the hell picks people off LFT for their breed? There's no guarantee they even have the genomes perked AT ALL.

Kinda like who the hell picks ppl off of lft because they are well geared / better players / or one of the trinity professions? Doesn't happen right? These people are remembered, added to friends lists for future grouping. There are changes yet to be implemented, where professions will have a hard time keeping thier nano pool up. This has already been said.

So yes, people will decide who gets into team depending on breed in the future. Where breed will matter, and will effect game play. To say it wont, is a bit decieving.

[Gatester]

I wouldn't mind more AC's, otherwise Atrox Beta Genome is wonderful. It does offer 2 seperate heals afterall, which is situationally much better than a single solitus HoT tool (except for soldiers).

Also do not forget the HoT effect from solitus static buff. I would expect HD for atrox to be better in the future as well, so healing will probly be equivalent or at least better for atrox than solitus.

[Synre]

after looking more closely, for a lot of profs trox is great now cuz of the heal. It is only slightly worse then the solitus (originally one big reason to roll solitus) one but in exchange trox get +2k-5k HP (depending on setup) and maybe higher attackrating, + the option to perk MR if the need is there. For these reasons, I feel gnome perks for trox are already sorta OP. I'd say give solitus more healing (to make it different from the trox heal) and trox maybe DD perk or some HP buff. For example imho survival was a nice perk if you wanted to roll a pvm toon, the heal helps versus mobs. But now I think trox is better judging from the new perks + other trox benefits.

Balance isnt just about the perks, it is about the big picture, grand total etc.

About the team dynamics, I agree with the other poster, I have never seen someone being picked over someone else just because he has survival perked, or any other perks for that matter.. cept maybe crats xp perks


This is mainly from melee profs point of view.

[Herkulease]

The new heals are very nice. Combined with the other defenses a profession has...these will go a long way. Soldiers, Enforcers, Advies, Ma's, Fixers.

Doctor's will like the +500 hp buff, extra heals are not a bad thing either.

[Notcrattey]

Kinda like who the hell picks ppl off of lft because they are well geared / better players / or one of the trinity professions?

This is not even close to the the same thing as picking someone based off their breed, no one is picked for their breed perks in pvm, ever.

Are they nice? Yes. But no one has asked me "do u hav survival?! or sphere?!!"

This perks aren't really gamebreaking to raids dude.

[Ashes2Ashes]

This is not even close the same as picking someone based off their breed, no one is picked for their breed perks in pvm, ever.

Ofc not now, I diddn't even imply that if you read what I said. It's the future I am eluding to. There are going to be alot of changes comming up. The upcomming "having a hard time keeping your nano full" is part of it. This will also be part of pvp teams as well when putting a group together for towers / bs.

This is getting off the subject somewhat tho. I feel a small boost to trox beta genome is in order. Like I originally said, not much, but a small tweak. What form that takes, more AC, Hp, Heal boost, or maybe even going back and adding dodge range buff back in, but having it scale depending on the ammount of perks invested, who's to say. Thats why I made this thread.