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Thread: Nanomage's Need Love - Some Ideas

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Nanomage's Need Love - Some Ideas

    Nanomages:

    "This is the most xenomorphic breed on Rubi-Ka, uniquely specialized to enhance their ability at using nano programs. Many of them pay for this with a hideous visage, and many view the Nanos as both cold and cruel, as well as somewhat inhuman.

    Strong abilities: Intelligence and Psychic
    Weak abilities: Strength and Stamina
    Health: Low
    Nano pool: High"
    --Copied from the online game manual

    I will endeavor to keep this post free from emotion and insults and I hope that all follow up posts will do the same in an effort to keep respect with Funcom and it's developers.

    It is obvious that as the game progressed the benefit of playing a nanomage has all but disappeared. Why? For one, the SL nano level caps completely nerfed the advantage of the Nanomage breed. Also they have the least PvP viability of all breeds.

    So I ask you, where is the benefit of this breed? They don't make the best tradeskillers, with the nano caps they have no major post 200 edge. So why make a nanomage <anything>?

    If they were bred specifically for this planet where is the edge they should have over the other more human races? At this point the only edge they have is hitting the 2 sec nano delta sooner then any other race but for what good? Others will hit that delta eventually so again, endgame they have no real edge.

    So here are some ideas to help make the Nanomage a viable race again for AO, and I know there are many shelfed NM's that would come out of retirement with some appropriate love and possibly more people coming back to AO.

    If notum is part of the Nanomage DNA, it would make sense that when damaged a portion of the damage would roll into the nano pool.

    All fractions are rounded down in the following examples.

    Idea 1
    Balance the nano pool with the health pool with a flat %.


    It could be like a flat 30% of total health. So the Nanomage would get the best benefit by working at keeping their health pool as large as possible. Lets say this Nanomage has a 6k health pool and a 10k nano pool. He takes a hit for 2000. 70% or 1400 is removed from the health pool and the difference of 600 comes off the nano pool. HP pool is now 4600.

    Another hit for 2000. 1400 off of the HP pool bringing it down to 3200.

    Another hit for 3000. 2100 off the HP pool bringing it down to 1100.

    In this hypothetical senario the overall effective HP would be 8100. This again is a flat % pecentage of max health, not current health. PvP 40% rule would still be base off total actual health ignoring the 30% nano pool buffer.

    Edit -- To clarify what I mean by ignoring the 30% nano pool buffer in PvP is that the nano pool would still offset 30% damage taken in PvP but the 40% pvp damage would only be based on natural HP and not the combination of HP and NP. --End Edit

    Idea 2
    Balance the nano pool with the health pool but with a difference.


    In this situation it starts off at 50% of total health. So the Nanomage would still get the best benefit by working at keeping their health pool as large as possible. Lets say this Nanomage has a 6k health pool and a 10k nano pool. He takes a hit for 2000. 50% or 1000 is removed from the health pool and the difference of 1000 comes off the nano pool.

    Here is the difference though, the % is based off current HP not max or total HP. So now the NM is down to 5k health 9k nano. He takes another hit for 2000 this time since his health pool is no longer at 100% but is at 83% that 83% is balanced against the 50% original modifier and brought down to (.83 x 50) = 41%

    This time the health pool takes 59% (or 1180) of the damage and the nano pool takes 41% (or 820).

    NM is at (5000 - 1180) = 3820 now. Third hit comes in at 3000. Original full HP modifier of 50% is altered now by (.63 x 50) = 31% so 31% (or 930) goes to the nano pool and the difference of 69% (or 2070) hits the health pool leaving the NM at (3820 - 2070) = 1750 HP

    In this senario the overall effective HP was 8750. This structure would lend itself being better against an opening AS or FA. In PvP the 40% would only apply against the actual health which in itself is still lower then normal breeds.

    Lets say the hits above came in the opposite order:

    Opener of 3000
    ... 2000
    ... 2000

    The 3000 would play against the 50% laying 1500 against HP and 1500 against NP. 4500 HP now, now at 75% health the modifier changes from 50% to a 37% modifier. (.75 x 50%) = 37%

    Now 2000 dam is applied at 63% (or 1260) to HP and 37% (or 740) to the NP
    HP is at 3240 now.

    Modifier goes from 37% to (.54 (%of max HP) x 50 )= 27%

    Now 2000 dam is applied at 73% (or 1460) to HP and 27% (or 540) to the NP
    HP is at 1780 now.

    The mod would cap at 20% min.

    In this senario the overall effective HP was 8780. Slightly higher since the largest attack came in first.

    Last senario:

    6K HP 10K NP

    One hit for 7000

    50% (or 3500) to HP and 50% (or 3500) to NP
    HP is now 2500.

    In this senario the overall effective HP was 9500.


    Idea 3
    Balance the nano pool with the health pool but with another difference. This is Idea 2 but reversed making the damage absorbed by the nano pool start off at a smaller % but work up as damage accumliates. This would have a bigger weakness against an opening AS or FA but makes the NM harder to finish off.


    In this situation it starts off at 20% of total health. So the Nanomage would still get the best benefit by working at keeping there health pool as large as possible. Lets say this Nanomage has a 6k health pool and a 10k nano pool. He takes a hit for 2000. 80% or 1600 is removed from the health pool and the difference of 400 comes off the nano pool.

    HP is now 4400
    The modifier works in reverse now. Original 20% is bumped up by (max hp / current hp) (6000/4400) = 1.36
    20% x 1.36 = 27%

    Another 2000 hit comes in now against the 27% mod.
    1460 against the HP and 540 against the NP

    Current HP is 2940
    Original 20% is bumped up by (max hp / current hp) (6000/2940) = 2.04
    20% x 2.04 = 40%

    A hit for 3000 comes in against the now 40% mod.
    1800 goes to the HP and 1200 to the NP

    Final HP is 1140
    The Mod would now be at a 50% cap for any additional damage.

    In this senario the overall effective HP was 8140.

    Last senario:
    6K HP 10K NP

    One hit for 7000

    80% (or 5600) to HP and 20% (or 1400) to NP
    HP is now 400.

    Modifier is now capped at 50%

    In this senario the overall effective HP was 7400. Weaker against heavy openers but still better then no change at all.


    Idea 4
    A smaller flat % like 10 vs weapon damage but a higher % like 50% vs nano DD and DoT's.


    Idea 5
    Make the AI 5 Genome add .5 HP/Body Dev and the AI 10 Genome add the other .5 to make bring them on par with Soli and Opifex.




    Summary
    This is just some theory craft in an effort to help bring back alive the Nanomage race. Some will say some of these ideas would make them too powerfull, and that may very well be the case. The numbers provided are just for examples.

    There could even be an additional balance thrown in that if the NP is depleted (like from casting or drains) that the damage that would have absorbed falls back on the HP at double damage.

    The only thing these idea would help with is balancing some of the Nano pool against the HP. This still won't help them with the weak weapon skills. Strength is still DB, same with Sense. Pistols and rifles are heavily based on Sense. Most melee weapons are heavly based on Strength (some more then others).

    But in all the best weapons (aside from nanos) for NM are ranged energy and melee energy. Why not supply more NM specific gear to help bring NM up on a different curve. NM will never fight like any other race so why not give them there own curve. Atrox are brutes and that really helps melee and some ranged skills. Opi are the best at Bow's, Rifles, Pistols and any other Agi/Sense based weapons / attacks.

    Now why not bring up the curve for Nanomages and give them a unique fighting style.

    Move Ranged Energy and Melee energy Imp's to other locations so there is no major conflict with Head/Eye symbs etc. More NM specific gear other then for nano skills. NM version of leg choppers but for energy weapons.

    Balance their NP with their weak HP.

    What about Psionic attacks / weapons. Mind over brute strength. The weak minded Atrox would be very suseptible to the mind of the NM. Make a weapon that maybe looks like an NT's cyber deck but is a weapon in its own right. Dimach varies with classes like Keepers, Shades and MA's. Why not bring about variants of other skills specific to NM's?

    Some ideas would be easier then others to impliment for sure, it just would be nice to see the NM's get some love from FC. Maybe the above ideas while not perfect may hopefully bring about better ideas and something good come of it.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Torns; Jan 10th, 2007 at 21:28:06.

  2. #2
    /signed

    brillant idea!
    ~ Roger "Shadowset" Garanti (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Andrew "Boomtastic" Domtar (Member Clan Assembly)
    ~ Ta "Bloudless" Butcher (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Caviler "Cynotor" (Member of the NLF)
    ~ Chef "Ironox" (Member of the NLF)

    Public files on Shadowset
    Ironox and Cooking with Iron!

  3. #3
    In the past I have felt that by far the best solution is through offering innate abilities to the breeds.... These abilities would enhance the breeds skills from level 1 to 220 LE30... since these innate abilities are done as percentages they won't be imbalanced at any level. I feel that the best ways to make Nano Mages stand out is to further differentiate all the breeds and to give the NanoMages some truly unique talents


    Another option would be to add innate abilities to each breed...
    Opifex could add: Basically focus on the major trickle downs.
    +3% crit
    +3% runspeed runspeed
    +3% evades
    +3% multiranged
    +3% multimelee
    +3% ranged, melee, physical inits
    +3% rifle, pistol, AS, dimach, MA
    +3% Crit Resistance
    +3% Concealment

    NanoMage
    +3% nanoskills
    +10%nano damage
    +10%healing efficiency
    +5% modifier increase (nanomages are master casters they should be able to cast nanos with better modifiers.. maybe 5% higher than what's listed on nano.. for instance a 1000 layers would be an 1050 layers for a nanomage... 75% Reflect would be 78% on a Nanomage or a +131 wrangle will be +137)
    -5% Decrease Fumble Rate (as the master Casters)
    +3% Nano Init
    +3% Tradeskills
    +3% Nano Resist

    Atrox
    +3% damage
    +3% body dev
    +3% AC
    +3% melee skills (not dimach, not Martial Arts)
    +3% FA, burst, HW, Assault Rifle
    +3% add nanocost (atrox dumb take more nano to cast =p)

    Solitus
    +1% of all skills added above.
    +1% Strength, Stam, Agil, Sense, Psy, Intel
    Last edited by Champyon; Jan 10th, 2007 at 20:36:49.

  4. #4
    I see what your takling about but it really has no bearing on NM's. Adidtionally your speaking of further buffing Races that dont need it and your adding to only nano funtionality which isn't the problem with Nanomages. They need balance not further pigeon holing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champyon View Post
    NanoMage
    +3% nanoskills
    +10%nano damage
    +10%healing efficiency
    +5% modifier increase (nanomages are master casters they should be able to cast nanos with better modifiers.. maybe 5% higher than what's listed on nano.. for instance a 1000 layers would be an 1050 layers for a nanomage... 75% Reflect would be 78% on a Nanomage or a +131 wrangle will be +137)
    -5% Decrease Fumble Rate (as the master Casters)
    +3% Nano Init
    +3% Tradeskills
    +3% Nano Resist
    How do the above in any real way help NM with PvP? Sure a bit more layers or reflect is nice but its still won't make them viable in PvP with the same gimpy health pool.

    Since now the trend is to roll an Atrox <anything> with their superior HP combined with SL level locked nanos, additonal nano skills useless for NM, Give them more HP but as I suggested in the above post make it balance off their Nano pool adding further to breed without taking away its uniqueness.

    NM's need a way to compete with the other breeds in their own way, a unique fighting style / weapons.

    Energy weapons are based off Int, help them build on that so there can be the birth of something new, something for NM's too feed off of. Something that makes people want to roll a NM this or that to try a new style and have it not wind up being a retired mistake.


    Please focus on ideas to help the forgotten Nanomage.
    Last edited by Torns; Jan 10th, 2007 at 21:53:18.

  5. #5
    On the contrary, least from an NT point of view, nanomage is becoming more and more viable. Nanomages get the best hp/nano ratio (1/1) when they are under nanobot shielding. When scheol quests go live; nanomages also get the best ratio among the new nano reflect that we receive. Clan nanomage NTs have perhaps one of the more useful SBs in mass pvp now; given that its 100% resist to snares/roots/stuns, clears your NCU of current stuns/roots/snares; and provides a huge nano hot which helps you take more damage while NB shielding is running.


    Rather I think that the problem isn't with hp whatsoever. Get some health buffing armour, or some aruls. Rather I think the problem with nanomage from my point of view is that twinking str/stam becomes immensely difficult at tl7. There are very few items that buff this; and a good portion of exterm symbs are str/stam based. Least what I would like to see first are more str/stam buffing items (perhaps make them nanomage only?).


    I can't say much playing another profession as a nanomage, but I'm sure its quite more difficult given the HP loss and the breed caps involved with nanomage. Nanomages were only built to be nano-casters only, and therefore there are few viable professions that can utilize the extra boost in nano. No ranged or melee profession would take the str loss, as that means a great loss in damage for a trade of nano; which is not as critical for some professions. The only viable nanomage professions I'd consider playing are NT, and doctor; (enfo if built right <3 agamundos). And even from a doctor's standpoint; they get more than enough nano even as a trox; and nowadays even trox can self BI with no difficulty.


    I'm not sure how to go about fixing a primary nano breed, but certainly something has to be done for other nanocasting professions to perhaps make nanomage viable again.


    -Chi-
    Chi"Chimx" Delaet- 220/28 NT
    Proud Advisor of Uprising.


  6. #6
    nanomages are good at lower level, where other breeds lack...
    it can cost alot less perk resets/buff items to get a certin intel item on...

    JUST BECAUSE Nanomages aren't gods at TL7, doesn't mean you should whine...
    JUST BECAUSE you have to work hard at 220 to do any good in pvp, doesn't mean you have to whine....

    I say, solitus need love, because they can't match a atrox's AR!
    Uh, yeah
    - Twotwenty 220/23 shade
    - Zonality 150/19 MA
    - Height <incoming project>

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Torns View Post
    Also they have the least PvP viability of all breeds.
    that's probably the worst statement from your post. till we have the 40% damage cap in pvp, an NT or MP nanomage with their low hp (read 1 HP) are the best choice in pvp since they cannot die.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatez View Post
    I say, solitus need love, because they can't match a atrox's AR!
    and it's not supposed to.

    the general idea amongst the players after SL and AI was introduced is that the nanomage breed has become obsolete. i tend to disagree. if you want a nice grind to 220 without any challenges, you can always roll a trox anything. but if you really want e-peen, do the same with a nanomage. it is a challenge, it always was and I would like that FC will keep it that way. remember, it's a game, it is supposed to be fun, and the reward when your nanomage dings 220/30 is so much greater than for any other breed. that is e-peen.
    Oltcit - 220/24/69 troxie enf -= Proud General of Deadly Whispers =- RK1
    Roflcopterz - 220/20/60 troxie nubstick wielder

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick View Post
    that's probably the worst statement from your post. till we have the 40% damage cap in pvp, an NT or MP nanomage with their low hp (read 1 HP) are the best choice in pvp since they cannot die.
    And what exactly stops you to make 1 HP solitus, or opi, or even trox?
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
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    MP setup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    You won.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick View Post
    that's probably the worst statement from your post. till we have the 40% damage cap in pvp, an NT or MP nanomage with their low hp (read 1 HP) are the best choice in pvp since they cannot die.
    Since you seem to be so adept in math, you tell me.. what is 20% of 1 hit point?

    If you have even read what I had written you would see all the suggestions were based off actual HP. Under the changes I suggested a 1 hp toon would only get at best a 1 NP buffer which wouldn't aid them any further.

    So we should ignore every other NM else who refuses to use a controversal low HP method in PvP?

    Additionally the changes suggested would help NM's in PvM. My suggestions does NOT favor low HP tactics but favors normal maxed HP tactics like what everyone else shoots for in PvP.

    Hit points, Hit point, Hit points.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick View Post
    and it's not supposed to.
    so?? then nanomages aren't suppose to be ubah??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick View Post
    that's probably the worst statement from your post. till we have the 40% damage cap in pvp, an NT or MP nanomage with their low hp (read 1 HP) are the best choice in pvp since they cannot die.
    well, thats a bug, and using a bug to your advantage= exploit....
    and, talad1 is a NM engineer and she/he seems to do very well in pvp....
    Uh, yeah
    - Twotwenty 220/23 shade
    - Zonality 150/19 MA
    - Height <incoming project>

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    And what exactly stops you to make 1 HP solitus, or opi, or even trox?
    i haven't heard of one yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torns View Post
    Since you seem to be so adept in math, you tell me.. what is 20% of 1 hit point?

    If you have even read what I had written you would see all the suggestions were based off actual HP. Under the changes I suggested a 1 hp toon would only get at best a 1 NP buffer which wouldn't aid them any further.

    So we should ignore every other NM else who refuses to use a controversal low HP method in PvP?

    Additionally the changes suggested would help NM's in PvM. My suggestions does NOT favor low HP tactics but favors normal maxed HP tactics like what everyone else shoots for in PvP.

    Hit points, Hit point, Hit points.
    torns, you obviously missed my point. i'm not saying that your suggestion is wrong, just your comment on how NM sucks in pvp. there are plenty of good pvp-ers that use NM as breed. and where was math involved in my post? don't take it as an attack towards you, i'm only pointing out something that i think it's not right in your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatez View Post
    so?? then nanomages aren't suppose to be ubah??
    excuse me, i'm not so good with english, so i probably missed your reasoning / meaning of this statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatez View Post
    well, thats a bug, and using a bug to your advantage= exploit....
    it is not an exploit until FC says so, especially since they are aware of this issue. afaik, there is no official statement from FC on this issue. i personally don't think it's a bug, and if it is, FC can solve it easily, round up the damage instead of down, so 40% out of 1 which is 0,4 will not be rounded to 0, but to 1. 1-1=0, and you have a dead NM.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatez View Post
    and, talad1 is a NM engineer and she/he seems to do very well in pvp....
    thank you for confirming what i've said in my post, that nanomages can be good at pvp.
    Last edited by Stick; Jan 11th, 2007 at 16:27:18.
    Oltcit - 220/24/69 troxie enf -= Proud General of Deadly Whispers =- RK1
    Roflcopterz - 220/20/60 troxie nubstick wielder

  12. #12
    last ARK I talked to called it, forgot what was the word....he mentioned that FC is considering to "fix" it....so it must be a broken game mechanic...
    so yeah, FC doesn't see it as "right" or they wouldn't even look into it

    If FC agrees that it is a bug, and then somebody uses this "bug" to their advantage, that person is then exploiting
    Last edited by hatez; Jan 11th, 2007 at 16:41:43.
    Uh, yeah
    - Twotwenty 220/23 shade
    - Zonality 150/19 MA
    - Height <incoming project>

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by hatez View Post
    last ARK I talked to called it, forgot what was the word....he mentioned that FC is considering to "fix" it....so it must be a broken game mechanic...
    so yeah, FC doesn't see it as "right" or they wouldn't even look into it

    If FC agrees that it is a bug, and then somebody uses this "bug" to their advantage, that person is then exploiting
    FC is considering to fix to many things, the problem is that they don't. like i've said, FC knows about it and the majority of the players know about it, yet there is no official statement from FC that this is an exploit. till I see one, I consider it to be a fair game.
    Oltcit - 220/24/69 troxie enf -= Proud General of Deadly Whispers =- RK1
    Roflcopterz - 220/20/60 troxie nubstick wielder

  14. #14
    well....FC DOES think its a exploit...

    I petitioned about it as "feed back", and it was answered by a Exploit team ARK....
    er, yeah, how is that explained?
    Uh, yeah
    - Twotwenty 220/23 shade
    - Zonality 150/19 MA
    - Height <incoming project>

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hatez View Post
    well....FC DOES think its a exploit...

    I petitioned about it as "feed back", and it was answered by a Exploit team ARK....
    er, yeah, how is that explained?
    first, ARKs are not FC employees, they are regular players. if it would've been a GM, that's a different story. I don't know what you petitioned, or what conversation you had with the ARK, so I cannot comment on that.
    second, FC obviously know about it.
    third, players obviously know about it.
    fourth, there is no official statement from FC on this and i haven't heard of anyone being banned yet because of this.
    fifth, if it would be an exploit, do you really think that all the posts in the forums regarding the 1HP setups would still be on the forums?

    this is only some clever use of game mechanics were players completely give up their PvM capabilities for the PvP ones.
    anyway, we're going off-topic, sorry about that torns.
    Oltcit - 220/24/69 troxie enf -= Proud General of Deadly Whispers =- RK1
    Roflcopterz - 220/20/60 troxie nubstick wielder

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick View Post
    this is only some clever use of game mechanics were players completely give up their PvM capabilities for the PvP ones.
    exploits aren't being clever....


    anyhow, I had petitioned about a low hp NT as "feed back" (I thought it would be feed back this time since classing it as a exploit never gets anywhere)
    and the FACT that it was CHANGED from FEEDBACK to EXPLOIT means FC considers it as a exploit...otherwise it'd be kept as feedback
    Uh, yeah
    - Twotwenty 220/23 shade
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    - Height <incoming project>

  17. #17
    i don't think that FC is changing the classification of your petition, but the petition system does it automatically. you need to come up with a better reason, i gave you at least two.
    Oltcit - 220/24/69 troxie enf -= Proud General of Deadly Whispers =- RK1
    Roflcopterz - 220/20/60 troxie nubstick wielder

  18. #18
    so you are saying I don't have to class my petition corectly? that it will just class itself if I am wrong? awsome
    Uh, yeah
    - Twotwenty 220/23 shade
    - Zonality 150/19 MA
    - Height <incoming project>

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by hatez View Post
    so you are saying I don't have to class my petition corectly? that it will just class itself if I am wrong? awsome
    no, but when you petition, it gets assigned automatically into 1 class, till you reassign the class. at least that's what happened with my last 2 petitions.
    Oltcit - 220/24/69 troxie enf -= Proud General of Deadly Whispers =- RK1
    Roflcopterz - 220/20/60 troxie nubstick wielder

  20. #20
    nah, I classed it myself...

    I petitioned this guy for harressment today because he wouldn't stop filling my NCU, I classed it as harressment myself but it was changed to exploit
    Uh, yeah
    - Twotwenty 220/23 shade
    - Zonality 150/19 MA
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