Testlive 18.7.0.17 Changes

[JustinSane4]

This is a thread to discuss the massive changes coming with the first testlive patch (patch notes http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=611763) as they relate to MPs.

The only change not previously announced to MPs specifically is to the Shield of Esa, which sadly, looks pretty useless (https://tl.aoitems.com/item/275851/) for the time being. It is now a top level to the blue shields no one ever used, and adds max nano, nano cost modifier and 25% nano damage. If we eventually get nukes more in line with those in the nano document from years back, then the nano damage modifier will make it a decent alternative to dual wielding 1hb weapons or to the red staff.

Please feel free also to discuss how any of the other changes that are not MP specific will impact MPs.

[Esssch]

You linked to SoZ. This is the correct link for Esa. And ya, SoZ is still way better. 910 AAD and you can now use a weapon with it since it's 1hb.

Rihwen still doesn't scale, so pet scaling is only for lower levels.

They changed Fixers' perklines, but not MP's Ranger access. That's dumb.

We have access to NS now, anyone tested if it stacks with Odin's Other Eye? I'm assuming no, because it looks like they rolled the +3 int/psy from ICRT into both NS and Odin's.

NSD is flat-out nerfed. 50% less NR check isn't going to make up for the 45s downtime and 1000 debuff difference. eNSD can now be cast on mobs, but it's the same duration/cd as regular NSD, so no particular reason to do so. eNSD requirement was raised from 760 BM to 1400 BM.

While pets now scale, you still retain your previous nanos. So I have most (if not all) individual pet nanos, those are still uploaded.

[Burgly]

Anyone tested out new SS and how much dmg it eats from rihwen? and im guessing its only rihwen that takes dmg, not spread out across all 3 pets.

[JustinSane4]

NS does not stack with Odin's - they are all in the same nano line.

[Baby]

I've already said it in another thread, but the NSD changes are simply baffling. There is no point in a 45sec CD in PvM unless we can alpha a mob within 15 sec.
In my understanding from way back, NSD was there to help an MP versus nuking or generally casting mobs. Now someone needs to explain to me how a 15sec NSD is helping at all. It's not like after NSD runs out, the mob will decide to not nuke/cast anything anymore, out of fairness, because we can't refresh it.
I just don't see.. what the devs are expecting to be happening in these 15 secs that would justify this? Like, as if NSD wasn't needed anymore after these 15 seconds, because....? Yeah, because what?
Am I missing something?

[nanoforcer]

The good things i've found are that you can now use the damage debuffs without pissing of crats
Damage to pets should also be good for survival i guess.

[JustinSane4]

Baby, I don't think there is an MP around who thinks the NSD change is reasonable. However, the devs clearly don't like NSD, and we've been complaining for years about the proposed change, and now it's on test live. It looks like it's coming, like it or not .

[xxaaaxx]

Baby, I don't think there is an MP around who thinks the NSD change is reasonable. However, the devs clearly don't like NSD, and we've been complaining for years about the proposed change, and now it's on test live. It looks like it's coming, like it or not .

That's the only thing I can think of. I mean, wasn't one of the highlights of the nano rebalance, when it was first announced, that they would give debuffs different durations depending on if the target was a mob or a player, so that PvM utility wasn't sacrificed for PvP balance? I'd really like it if a dev would come to the forums and explain to us what their vision for NSD/MPs is. Or perhaps that 15s duration is all the explanation we need...

[JustinSane4]

Basically, the devs don't like debuffs that can disable mobs. It's why init debuffs have gotten functionally nerfed as well (all moved to the same UBT nano-line, which is more commonly useless against bosses than the old crat init debuffs were). If debuffs are disabling, then content has to be designed to be either challenging even with the debuffs up or too difficult if the de-buffing profession is not in the team/raid. Weaker debuffs makes designing new content easier.

That of course is just my somewhat educated guess as to what the devs are thinking on MPs. Eventually though we should be getting new pets, better heal pet healing, and better nukes, so it won't all be bad news. And Damage to Pet should be useful immediately.

[Baby]

Well, tbqh I don't like debuffs that disable a mob entirely either. But NSD is far from that, because the mob can still hit the hell out of me.

All -inits in one line isn't useless at all. Seriously, back when crats we're almost useless, except for xp perk, UBT was enough for everything. So this isn't a nerf at all. It's balance. When UBT can't land, the crat will Malaise. And MPs now can debuff dmg as well. So actually I consider this a win in debuffing a mob in a team/raid.

[Wakizaka]

All -inits in one line isn't useless at all. Seriously, back when crats we're almost useless, except for xp perk, UBT was enough for everything. So this isn't a nerf at all.

Except back then all mobs had a hard cap on inits so they were accidentally a lot gimpier than intended.

[Baby]

Except back then all mobs had a hard cap on inits so they were accidentally a lot gimpier than intended.

Could be, I don't really remember. But when I now go solo things with UBT + procs, it's a walk in the park, so I don't think there's a reason to worry about the change.

[jooo]

It's good that our (though crappy) init debuff + dmg divests can be used with crats debuffs. Makes us somewhat more viable (ie. we're far from useless) to raids such as 12man.

But WHY we can use those staff nanos, such as healing staffs 12% heal eff and 300 aao to pet from redfire staff, with ONLY shield of esa (which wont be used much...)? Why not with Shield of Zset? Did they forget that thing from SoZ? Doesn't really make sense why not. It wouldn't make soz OP if we could use those staff nanos with it...

Assuming that "Set flag NanoFocusLevel &MpSummonedWeapon" means that we can use those staff nanos. That's not stated in SoZ. We should really get it with it. That really should be mentioned to devs, it wouldn't be time consuming to change that.

After all, those staff nanos used to work with SoZ, so why change it.

Edit: or have I understood wrong - does that mean staff nanos work with SoZ but not with Esa?

[JustinSane4]

Jooo, you have understood correctly, but that was an intentional decision by the developers. It's been mentioned. And you've got to admit, if we could still use the staff nanos with SoZ, there would rarely be reason to use anything else. While I also wanted to keep the staff nanos, it does make sense that 910 AAD should not come without a drawback or two. Esa is the offensive option, SoZ is the defensive option.

[Esssch]

I seem to recall Asp letting you cast those nanos, but I don't see the modifier on it, either TL or current DB. It's been a number of years since I last used it, though, so maybe I'm just remembering wrong.

[nanoforcer]

Any word on letting use use ALL of the sl 1hb perks?
I'de also like to smash things with a creation weapon, 1hb prefered, any info on that ?

[Notcrattey]

However, the devs clearly don't like NSD

And it makes complete sense why they wouldn't. It's a nano that can completely shut down a target with very limited removal options in combat for an excessively long duration. Not only that but the nano ultimately came down to luck, no matter how you tried to itemize to sway the odds.

[Burgly]

I can understand 15s duration on eNSD, should have been a tad longer on regular NSD since its harder to land and it only lowers nanoskills 1k, but i do hope they remove NSD removers or NSD is just plain worthless after change.

[JustinSane4]

One very interesting note about the new shields on Test-Live. You can dual-wield them. Two SoZs are very strong defensively, although it completely kills our DPM and somewhat hurts our healing (can't run aggressive construct empowerment any longer with just SoZ equipped, or the heal pet buff, and they attack at 8% TS 2% 1hb rather than 80% TS 20% 1hb, so perk attacks that check AR won't land on a back yard leet). I've played around with it a bit and it does seem balanced, and gives MPs an interesting all defense option.

This makes Shield of Esa useful too - you can wield one along with one SoZ, giving pretty good defense with reasonable offense due to the staff pet nanos and the nano-damage multiplier buff. For battles where you don't want to be in melee range (Beast for instance), 2x Shield of Esa makes sense for the large nano-damage multiplier.

[Esssch]

I also asked Michi while he was on if 18.7 includes the nerf to regular+creation weapons. He said he hasn't coded it and hasn't been asked to code it, so it looks like we can still do Abandonment + SoZ.