As of 17.2, soldiers will be the only prof without a PVP defense

[twinkcrat]

arguing with rocks > arguing with you

[Mofo]

Well as a 220 MA, soldiers got alot harder for me after the 17.1 patch. Now i get hit for 40% dmg instead of 32% when in a selfbuffed duel. Before the reflect nerf I could take out a soldier. Not 100% but I had a somewhat good chance of winning. Now I very highly doubt I would be able to kill a skilled soldier in a 1 on 1 duel without using dirty tricks. So from my point of view soldiers got some love this patch

But then when im playing on my 212 agent I can feel the nerf. Yesterday I experimented with FP soldier on the BS. But I came to the conclusion that it didnt really make a difference if I did cast TMS or not. I died within seconds nomatter what. I was getting hit for capped AS's, FA's and SA's through TMS all the time. Okay my agent is somewhat gimped and dont have alot of HP (around 10k). But I gave up going FP soldier for now i think. Not worth it.

[Unkerror]

tell me what other defense do soldiers have?,
lets take all the AAD out of crats too, make heals work only 50% in PvP? and belive me, enfos got it worst than soldiers, i am aware that several people think soldiers were too powerfull before this, but first of all, in PvP soldiers werent among the top dogs, with at least 5 other profesions being overall more effective in PvP, anfos were in about the same bus. Instead of lowering the efficiency of professions in the middle of the scale, why not balancing up those that needed it, those are the only ones that really could consider soldiers overpowered.

I repeat, nerfing reflects and cocoon in enfos and soldiers is like, lets broaden the statement, taking evades out of MA's and fixers, heals from docs, and any other defensive set any other profesion has. Add the fact thet soldiers don't have evades or healing and then, if you are not biased by missconceptions you can see why soldier, and specially enforcers have all the rigth to complaint against a very unneded nerf, that in the particular case of the soldiers is an adition to the nerf represented by 3 profesions that steal, weaken (easily to nothing) or shut down their (again) only defense prior to them.

I suppose doctor also rely too much on heals to take them out of trouble then, or evades profesion on not being hit.

Fix the profesions that need to be fixed sems to me a more appropiate way to even out the field. Yet again, the OP really exagerates the situation, even tho it really is pretty bad.

umm ok lets see, sneak attack, dimach, aimed shot. well theres your evades nerf.
doc heals? advy nemesis nano give -50% healing efficiency which mean as you said "make heals work only 50% in PvP?"
and since when don't sols have heal perks? are you wanting to be in a constant state of perk reset and still be able to live in pvp or something?

[Rktim]

umm ok lets see, sneak attack, dimach, aimed shot. well theres your evades nerf.
doc heals? advy nemesis nano give -50% healing efficiency which mean as you said "make heals work only 50% in PvP?"
and since when don't sols have heal perks? are you wanting to be in a constant state of perk reset and still be able to live in pvp or something?

Im trying to get your post but i kinda cant.. we need to be in a constant state of perk resets if we want heals (no for real we realy do O.ö)
Compairing 1 proffesions abilety to make doc heals 50% effective against giving all proffesions a -30% reflects when it comes to specials? O.o
and giving 3 -100% o.O
Il give you that evades are nerfed tho... fights vs "bad-good(not uber)" fixers are just sad now.. pew pew FA dead fixer.. =/
But outher then that your posts makes no sense atall and i usualy dont say stuff like this but.. are you shure you realy understand PvP and what realy has happend here?

[Boltgun]

I'd rather have special nerfed, and heals 50% in pvp so fights aren't so one sided and shorts. And whatever you say on paper, you can't know how it is for the soldier without trying it. Because in the game there is many more factor then "omg he swap gun and pew pew!". Stop thinking with 2 mechanics and a vague idea of a soldier's numbers.

But this thread is way beyond the point of arguments, and I'm pretty sure that if you ever looked at this post you'll deform it, so there you go :

ROFL U SUK L2P STUFF URSELF GO PVE NOOB REROLL WARLOCK!!!!!!!!1111[/B

[Smegheadz]

if you guys think about the game as a whole, the mechanics etc alot of profs were nerfed, but thats the way of the game since forever, traders pwn'd then agents, etc and so on, advies and keepers pwn now, just stop moaning like girls and learn to adapt, best for of defence is attack. hey i get my ass whoped in pvp against soldiers all the time on my 150 agent, agents defence FTW woot, look at that, we can all moan about our prof's and they all have weaknesses so deal with it, no easy game or easy line u gotta die some time and hit a rough patch, so stop thinkin like a 12year old and instead of bitching be constructive and put forth suggestions, waste of 5 pages on this forum, cuz it's not solved anything,

so learn to adapt and be constructive in this. and try to think outside the box too, game mechanics come's into play when u talk about buff's

[twinkcrat]

there is no easy way to make things fair for everyone o.O

[Ithnag]

arguing with rocks > arguing with you

While i have stated a lot of times that the OP indeed exagerated to a ridiculous point, it still doesn't change the fact that you have no idea of what you try to talk about.

This thread is not a good place to make sugestions or discuse things, as the very title misleads people to belive anyone complaining about the reflects condition here agrees with the OP, wich by fa is not true.

The best solution for mass PvP balance, having in mind the added killing power a group has when focusing damage and the lack of real added group defenses, would be to increase the potential of the ones left behind, and not weakening those in the middle. As many non soldier profesions have posted, several profesions had from a fair chance to a hands down win against soldiers pre patch, and as several have stated (including me) the reflect nerf affects everyone, but sadly it affect less those who already were on the top spots, and more those on the mid-lower spots, and cripple soldiers only defense. Soldiers are NOT in the bottom, never have said that, it's not true, but from being in the middle, they (and enforcers) were bumped down from pretty close to balanced, and lost their only defense.

Also if you go down in levels you'll se that the chance of twinking damage is way higher than that of twinking HP, wich ends up TMS resulting proportionally evne less effective at lower levels than AMS is at TL7

[Ianisimo]

If FC's idea of PvP is group pvp and not 1 on 1 then no nerf would have been nessasary at all... it would have been pre 17.1 and instead fix with pvp points so ppl actually team up...

And nobody would ever have called a Soldier overpowered either... they would just have picked either a NT, Engi or Trader so team with and that soldier would be dead meat...

And support proffesions would actually fill there positions just as in PvM where i know for a fact that i as a soldier making a pvp team my first picks would be doc, crat and trader... also a NT as they pwn

and i hope all understand just why thoes professions would be top choice (=

and then also support professions would fill there spot exacly as it's intended also... just exactly that... support to the team.

PS. but i guess MP's would need a bit on love (=

[windcaster]

hmmm i think if i was building a 6 person pvp team..

it would be advy advy keeper fixer agent eng.. yup that looks right.

course agent agent agent agent agent agent also works mircles long as they dont run into more then 2 or 3 people at a time.

[heartless888]

making specials 50% would destroy alot of people, and would just make some other professions stronger, advies have sneak, but long recharge from what i heard so they dont rely on it do they? keepers, they dont have a 40% specials evry 11 seconds i dont think, pretty much all melee would benefit, just think about MAs, they have dismach sure, they still hit you for what they can crit me for 3,3k (good ones) trough my reflect aura, thats a freaking cap on a 0% reflect not so high hp advy, they would benefit alot...


now take MPs, Docs, crats and such, they rely on cheap tricks but legal as its their tool set AND of cource AS, without AS they cant kill anything well you know what i mean


now take agents, soldiers and those that i may add alot of people play, that do rely on that special, AS/FA etc, nerf that and we cant kill anything

AS is what makes an agent deadly, because of that + a couple perks to kick in and finish with another AS, if you take that out..

same goes for soldiers that uses full auto from shark, they finaly gave soldiers an awsome weapon that kicks butt, and they are happy about it, the insane full auto makes it good in pvp too because of the low ammount of bullets needed to cap almost anyone, take that away, nothing is left


Melee is complaining that its hard right now in mass to even get to the target right? lets face it, most people care about the 1 on 1 aspect and you know its true, how many times i heard *pfffft you gotta be retarded to think BS is pvp* and last time i checked in 1 on 1 melee dint have any troubles getting to the target so....


all im saying is it would only do waaaay more dmg to the players then goods



peace

[heartless888]

hm 6 vs 6 team?


6 soldiers for me


god mode for 1 min and 20 seconds


evry 11 seconds someone dies from AS/FAs





or 2 sols + 1 caller (total of 3) + 2 other sols + one caller (total 3) that makes a full team


so at start boom evryone ams, then two of the other team are called and east 3 AS/FA 2 are down right at start no matter who they are, of cource, can be an engi but pffft i dont give a dam! try to make a team of 6 engie? or even 1 when making a full team of sols is like, easy

so yeah 2 are down, 11 seconds later, 2 more, 11 seconds later, the rest is dead


so basicly 22 seconds to kill an entire team

if the full soldier team pops in hots they cant die during those 22 seconds under ams


why 22 and not 33? think


as soon as the match start and the counter does, there is allready have been first shots

so yeah

sure easy to build a team against that, easy

but like i said, try to get a full team of NTs, or engies harder then finding 6 sols

5 sols and one doc? pffft, doc will die right at the start, useless, waste of space really, with skilled peeps that is


but of cource the dream team would probably be 6 engies or 5 and MAYBE one doc


can you tank 6 engies's fire power + 6 chickens + 6 doggies while your AS/FA dosnt work?

well, now there is kite....ugh


im gona end it here lol -.- send me a tell ingame if you wana talk more

[Chabis]

Melee is complaining that its hard right now in mass to even get to the target right? lets face it, most people care about the 1 on 1 aspect and you know its true, how many times i heard *pfffft you gotta be retarded to think BS is pvp* and last time i checked in 1 on 1 melee dint have any troubles getting to the target so....

Whether people care about 1v1 or not is irrelevant in BS. Melee ARE at a huge disadvantage in BS atm.

[Eatin]

Dude heartless I think you forget that there only takes one engi to give the team blockers. One doc with blockers wont be alphaed in the first alpha. Any 6 guys with as can alpha a soldier. Add a trader? thats one doomed soldier right there. What about rooters ? isn't easy to get targets alphaed at once if ur snared and rooted and blinded.

But I guess if you're in an area the size of tir arena, then your idea may work...

[Kyai]

much hp wont help me. low hp wont help me as you will see below:

http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?i...psehealbs4.jpg

So you died in a 3 on 1 situation; were you expecting to win or something?

as for enfs they can insta kill nearly every profession without the need for hotswapping and they complain that now others have a chance to kill them? you pressed one button and you could take on 5 people and win how was that fair?

Uh... where's the button I press to win against 5 people. Seriously, stop talking about stuff which you have no idea about.

[Yue]

So you died in a 3 on 1 situation; were you expecting to win or something?




Uh... where's the button I press to win against 5 people. Seriously, stop talking about stuff which you have no idea about.

sorry but thats just stupid. the whole base of your discussions is that you will take damage from multiple ppl. also how many 1v1 situations are there in mass pvp? whether its 3 ppl or not you shouldnt just die instant when youre not even in range with your own attacks.

seriously kyai wtf is wrong with you? its not about dying in a 3on1 situation its about how fast you die. no ones ever gonna rip through both your cocoon and your massive hp that fast. and no ones ever gonna do it instant alone. you do realize that by arguing that way you also argue against your own cause right?

oh and i forgot to mention i had a 220 doc in team thats hardly 3v1. + i had some reflect. now the difference between you and me is that no doc will ever be able to heal something thats more instant than my instant heal. while in my example the first and the third hit would be completely absorbed in your case. keep talking about how much better off mas are.

[kuznechik]

Whether people care about 1v1 or not is irrelevant in BS. Melee ARE at a huge disadvantage in BS atm.

Now explain to me role of melee profs in blobwars pre-LE... Pretty please. You can leave "equip supernova/bow and AS" part, I'm aware about it.

[lusthorne]

sorry but thats just stupid. the whole base of your discussions is that you will take damage from multiple ppl. also how many 1v1 situations are there in mass pvp? whether its 3 ppl or not you shouldnt just die instant when youre not even in range with your own attacks.

seriously kyai wtf is wrong with you? its not about dying in a 3on1 situation its about how fast you die. no ones ever gonna rip through both your cocoon and your massive hp that fast. and no ones ever gonna do it instant alone. you do realize that by arguing that way you also argue against your own cause right?

Don't forget that cocoon can literally be 1shotted by a decent aimed shot or full auto now, and that massive hp doesn't do much vs more capped hits following it. And if you think that pvp soldiers won't cap regularly with either AS of FA (depending on their preference) then I would *love* to have some of your stash.

[lusthorne]

Now explain to me role of melee profs in blobwars pre-LE... Pretty please. You can leave "equip supernova/bow and AS" part, I'm aware about it.

Melee PRE-LE Towerwars

Attack:
Run to tower. Press q. Hit 1234567890. Hope doc in team heals you. Move to next tower, repeat.

Defend:
Hope enemy rushes to you. Assist caller. Press q. Press 1234567890. Hope enemy is in range. Assist for next target. Repeat.

Hopefully someone spots the humor.

[Tza]

6 man team:

2 eng, 2 doc, keeper, NT.