As a result of losing 320 dodge Range

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think hacre's opinion counts for alot more than most other's here.

Sorry you got the shaft noobas, but as far as im concerned atrox does not = evade breed.

I never said it does. I merely have said I chose atrox because breed perks balanced out inherent weaknesses in the toolset. Now, if you take those away, it ONLY aggravates the problems that were there prior to choosing a breed, in essence, removing the 320 dodge range perk has resulted in removing the bandaid fix to keepers, without fixing the problem.

In even fewer words: FC is nerfing us where we're weakest.

[Marinegent]

I never said it does. I merely have said I chose atrox because breed perks balanced out inherent weaknesses in the toolset. Now, if you take those away, it ONLY aggravates the problems that were there prior to choosing a breed, in essence, removing the 320 dodge range perk has resulted in removing the bandaid fix to keepers, without fixing the problem.

In even fewer words: FC is nerfing us where we're weakest.

I understand that, but you rolled atrox for a clearly flawed concept. You rolled atrox because they had more dodge evades via Wit, when the harsh reality is they should have the least at all times. And looking back, 1800~ or 1900~ I believe was your Dodge defense after AAD and all other taken into account, which is plenty respectable. I'm assuming your CLSC is around.. 2.1k after all is said and done?

Correct me if Im wrong, but being unperkable to nearly everyone already is enough, some professions just have strengths over others, and soldier's is high high high attack rating. And it scales as such at all levels in comparison to other professions evades. Soldiers are getting a huge nerf overall with the re balancing that is currently planned out for them, and as such the playing field should be more than level in the end.

So let it go for now.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I understand that, but you rolled atrox for a clearly flawed concept. You rolled atrox because they had more dodge evades via Wit, when the harsh reality is they should have the least at all times. And looking back, 1800~ or 1900~ I believe was your Dodge defense after AAD and all other taken into account, which is plenty respectable.

Ok... I'm reading and re-reading this.

And, I'm forced to agree with you, BUT, and this is a big one, because of the design of keeper which is to be unperkable some of the time, and have decent evades most of the time, there are "other" methods to accomplish this.

IS blind ring -144 AAO
Opi chemical blind (I think) (- whatever AAO)
swaps, (wit of atrox)
new perk offering 160 AAD (I think)

So, If I chose opi, because I planned on using chemical blind to maintain higher effective evades during a Solds TMS time, It's hard to say that I "shouldn't have" higher evades, it's just prudent planning.

So, I would choose either opi or atrox, since they offer the best breed advantages.

In this case, I chose Atrox. Now, the sole reason for choosing atrox is being nerfed, so, ya, this ticks me off.

[sannz]

Ok... I'm reading and re-reading this.

And, I'm forced to agree with you, BUT, and this is a big one, because of the design of keeper which is to be unperkable some of the time, and have decent evades most of the time, there are "other" methods to accomplish this.

IS blind ring -144 AAO
Opi chemical blind (I think) (- whatever AAO)
swaps, (wit of atrox)
new perk offering 160 AAD (I think)

So, If I chose opi, because I planned on using chemical blind to maintain higher effective evades during a Solds TMS time, It's hard to say that I "shouldn't have" higher evades, it's just prudent planning.

So, I would choose either opi or atrox, since they offer the best breed advantages.

In this case, I chose Atrox. Now, the sole reason for choosing atrox is being nerfed, so, ya, this ticks me off.

1) Chemical Blindness (-180aao) is part of the Alchemy perk line only available to docs, engis & traders
2) opi blind Blinded by Delights debuffs base nanoskills by 5%, no aao debuffs involved.

[Marinegent]

Ok... I'm reading and re-reading this.

And, I'm forced to agree with you, BUT, and this is a big one, because of the design of keeper which is to be unperkable some of the time, and have decent evades most of the time, there are "other" methods to accomplish this.

IS blind ring -144 AAO
Opi chemical blind (I think) (- whatever AAO)
swaps, (wit of atrox)
new perk offering 160 AAD (I think)

So, If I chose opi, because I planned on using chemical blind to maintain higher effective evades during a Solds TMS time, It's hard to say that I "shouldn't have" higher evades, it's just prudent planning.

So, I would choose either opi or atrox, since they offer the best breed advantages.

In this case, I chose Atrox. Now, the sole reason for choosing atrox is being nerfed, so, ya, this ticks me off.

Your not getting it. Atrox should have never had that advantage to begin with. That's the whole point of this.

And you are unperkable "some of the time" and to most other professions ALL of the time. What more do you want?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Your not getting it. Atrox should have never had that advantage to begin with. That's the whole point of this.

so you say. but I don't believe you. I do think the difference between stuff that buffs dodge range vs other types of evades is appalling though.

Consider:
mark of thefisher king (50 DR)
notucomm trenchcoat (80 DR)
maiden gloves (50 DR)
shroud of darkness (50 DR)
combat skirt/pants (50 DR)
def bio material (30 DR)
wit of atrox (320 DR)
pointed hood of eric miller?? (50 DR)
ofab sleeves (40+40)
sureshot glasses (80)


Whats up with this? so, theres a huge abundance of stuff that buffs DR, then what happens, they gotta up the anti, so solds, and ranged people get two boatloads of stuff that buffs ranged AR. Ok, but, that leaves keepers who were once evade profs lying in the dust, since we're already inately weak agianst ranged.

And you are unperkable "some of the time" and to most other professions ALL of the time. What more do you want?

actually, thats totally untrue. First, I concede theres no sense in downplaying my melee evades. Yes, they are great, I have no problem with them, I've got a setup that buffs them massively and they work quite well.

When all procs are up and running, I'm definitly unperkable to everyone except agents (CS-which I admit is soon to be nerfed), enforcers, solds, and AR setup ranged advies and decent fixers, and FP enf agents.

Which pretty much leaves melee advies and MA's. But, melee advies are, to the best of my knowledge unbeatable (out of say 30 duels, I have not won 1 against an equally twinked melee advy), and MA's are as well nearly impossible to beat, FOL+alpha and I'm done like dinner, again, against an equally twinked MA with FOL up, I have not won)

So, if the 1.5 profs that I'm ACTUALLY strong enough against not to get perked, but are unbeatable, what does that tell you about the others that I just mentioned that CAN perk me?

Enf has WAY more defences than keeper has offence, solds is a joke, agents outlast everything until the cows come home, docs require more alpha power or stuns which we don't have, some ranged advies are beatable IF they are in an offence setup instead of defence, trader/NT are 50/50 depending on who gets the first root off, MP is weak against keeper, crat I havent' fought, shades are weak.

[sultryvoltron]

well, I am not sure if parry will affect ranged hits. And, AS isn't in question since it's a 100% hitting special, so whatever dodge range skill doesn't matter.

if we can parry ranged hits that would be interesting, and will add some balance vs solds.

interuptible AS is fine. Agents are getting another attack anyway aren't they?

I'm pretty sure they said that Parry would be for Ranged hits. Don't want to go find the quote.

Interruptible AS is the one without a def check. The new AS special will have a def check.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'm pretty sure they said that Parry would be for Ranged hits. Don't want to go find the quote.

Interruptible AS is the one without a def check. The new AS special will have a def check.

If this is true, it may provide a reasonable balance vs ranged profs.

I hope so, since, to be perfectly honest, Being either 100% invulnerable, or 100% heres your ass on a platter sucks. And thats the way it is for keepers currently.

[agentwolve]

im sure they said it also blocks special ... like AS and FA

yea its gay that there changing it after you spent so much work in a toon for that main perk, but atrox shouldnt have had this perk. its the same with BBD and getting the nanoskill debuff nerfed :S

this wont really be as much as a problem if they allow us to change breed at the end of this, who can really be bothered in grinding all the levels, research, AI, quests, no drops + twinking ... all over again.

This balancing NEEDS to be done but so does the ability to change breed.

i mean if you have like 7 characters (2 endgame and 5 COMPLETE twinks through tl3-5) how much time is gona have to be reinvested to reroll each and everyone, id rather have no rebalance at all if the option to swap is not there.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

im sure they said it also blocks special ... like AS and FA

yea its gay that there changing it after you spent so much work in a toon for that main perk, but atrox shouldnt have had this perk. its the same with BBD and getting the nanoskill debuff nerfed :S

this wont really be as much as a problem if they allow us to change breed at the end of this, who can really be bothered in grinding all the levels, research, AI, quests, no drops + twinking ... all over again.

This balancing NEEDS to be done but so does the ability to change breed.

i mean if you have like 7 characters (2 endgame and 5 COMPLETE twinks through tl3-5) how much time is gona have to be reinvested to reroll each and everyone, id rather have no rebalance at all if the option to swap is not there.

It may end up just being a take it or leave it situation. I doubt they will allow people to change breeds.

But, The thing is, there are irrefutable benefits still to being (atrox) over NM (for keeper), or atrox over soli for soldiers, or Opi for agents rather than atrox, or whatever.... So, it may be that whatver your breed is, you just have to roll with the punches.

I'm stoked I've finally got all the gear together to put SE hat on .... the next thing is that it's possible to do with 300 endurance rings as clan. Soooo, who's got em?

[srompu]

I think the problem lies not with the genome, but with the profession balance.

If a single breed genome perk was that powerful and your toon is that useless after it being changed, the genome perk is unbalanced and needed the change. Moreoever, the problem thereafter is with the profession breed dependency.

I.E. If everyone rolled trox shade to pvp with MR, the problem is with non-MR shades being underpowered and possible MR shades being overpowered.


Also, bump for Hacre and Ebon.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think the problem lies not with the genome, but with the profession balance.

If a single breed genome perk was that powerful and your toon is that useless after it being changed, the genome perk is unbalanced and needed the change. Moreoever, the problem thereafter is with the profession breed dependency.

I.E. If everyone rolled trox shade to pvp with MR, the problem is with non-MR shades being underpowered and possible MR shades being overpowered.


Also, bump for Hacre and Ebon.

yes. 100% agree. and babek will agree with you too. No-one on RK2 will dismiss his patience and dedication in building a toon that is as good is it is possible to be as an opifex PVPing shade, yet, Opi shades are a massive fail, and Babek knows that. And I know that my keeper is a massive fail EVEN with wit of atrox, which is why we're all screaming for some kind of fix to these profs.

[NoGoal]

Babek is a massive fail? His shade is better than 99% of all the atrox shades.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Babek is a massive fail? His shade is better than 99% of all the atrox shades.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...9&postcount=38

"1)Becaouse you can not balance shades with trox shades having access to Mongo rage.Opi andsoili shades need some ....."

Hence: Opi and soli shade are unbalanced, in Babek's own words.

And, I never said his shade wasa fail, I said Opi shades were a fail, and that his was as good as you can make it

LTR.