Copy paste pistol mastery to a new adv perk line, make it 100% checks

[Sterva]

{removed by Anarrina}

Hence my original comment about similar AR on the first page.

Advies have more defensive options than crats. Crats have more offensive options than advies. This doesn't really merit giving better offensive options to the crat toolset by any logic, now does it?

Uh, no. Advs can choose between an excellent melee setup or an excellent ranged setup. They have great support for both.

Crats? Yeah, we just get pistols.

[erozc]

Uh, no. Advs can choose between an excellent melee setup or an excellent ranged setup. They have great support for both.

Crats? Yeah, we just get pistols.

You're somehow ignoring that crats have forms of offense not related to anything you're wielding, and a tool set to make your opponent more vulnerable to your attacks.

Why am I bringing this up? Since you said support professions can't use pistols to the efficiency of an advy. Advies can't use nukes, pets or init debuffs to the efficiency of a crat either.

[Sterva]

You're somehow ignoring that crats have forms of offense not related to anything you're wielding, and a tool set to make your opponent more vulnerable to your attacks.

Why am I bringing this up? Since you said support professions can't use pistols to the efficiency of an advy. Advies can't use nukes, pets or init debuffs to the efficiency of a crat either.

You are twisting what I said.

I said crats cannot use pistols as well as advs even when crats have an 80% check and advs have a 100% check.

Which is absolutely true. Even in a weapon geared setup that sacrifices parts of our other toolset by losing nano skills, we still have no where near the same specials AR or multipliers that advs do, and, because of our vastly limited defenses, we don't get to stick around as long for multiple cycles of offense.

[laillea]

You are twisting what I said.

I said crats cannot use pistols as well as advs even when crats have an 80% check and advs have a 100% check.

Which is absolutely true. Even in a weapon geared setup that sacrifices parts of our other toolset by losing nano skills, we still have no where near the same specials AR or multipliers that advs do, and, because of our vastly limited defenses, we don't get to stick around as long for multiple cycles of offense.

imo all pistol perk should ve 100% check, crat can have more AR than advy, with init debuff + pets + aoe fear, all you deserve is a nerf.

For engi and doc LOL both are the most OP profs when it comes to pvp and they get access to this too .....

Make everyone have 100% check on those perks please.

[Sterva]

imo all pistol perk should ve 100% check, crat can have more AR than advy, with init debuff + pets + aoe fear, all you deserve is a nerf.

For engi and doc LOL both are the most OP profs when it comes to pvp and they get access to this too .....

Make everyone have 100% check on those perks please.

Not true at all.

If a crat goes into a completely offensive setup, one which the crat cannot self the top buffs and is crippled greatly defensively, then a crat can get CLOSE to as much AR as an Adv who still uses a relatively balanced setup.

And Advs will still be better with their higher specials AR and AS multipliers.

[erozc]

If a crat goes into a completely offensive setup, one which the crat cannot self the top buffs and is crippled greatly defensively, then a crat can get CLOSE to as much AR as an Adv who still uses a relatively balanced setup.

And Advs will still be better with their higher specials AR and AS multipliers.

Relatively schelatively. Anyway, I'm quite sure what you were trying to say here was "Advs will still have better damage from their pistols with their higher specials AR and AS multipliers". Right?

[Sterva]

Relatively schelatively. Anyway, I'm quite sure what you were trying to say here was "Advs will still have better damage from their pistols with their higher specials AR and AS multipliers". Right?

That, and in most setups, they will have better normal AR too.

[Kinkstaah]

You got better defence in the form of better offence. (C WHUT I DID THAR?)

The only reason crats should get 80% perks when adv get 100% perks is if they do something entirely different upon landing.

Which is now, apparently, a possibility. As for what that actually *does* ..think of something logical.

[Carjoy]

I play a pistol doc and a pistol adv, so I have a foot in both camps, and I totally fail to see why support profs should have the same perks as advs but with a lower defence check.

Advs are supposed to be better at using pistols than docs, that's the whole point of why they can get more pistol AR. Support profs have other offensive abilities besides their pistols and related perks - DOTs and malpractice in the case of docs, pets in the case of crats and engies.

If support profs get pistol perks with a lower defence check than advs, then they should also be less effective than the perks that advs get - either do less damage or take longer to recharge, or maybe both.

[Pomidor]

I play a pistol doc and a pistol adv, so I have a foot in both camps, and I totally fail to see why support profs should have the same perks as advs but with a lower defence check.

Advs are supposed to be better at using pistols than docs, that's the whole point of why they can get more pistol AR. Support profs have other offensive abilities besides their pistols and related perks - DOTs and malpractice in the case of docs, pets in the case of crats and engies.

If support profs get pistol perks with a lower defence check than advs, then they should also be less effective than the perks that advs get - either do less damage or take longer to recharge, or maybe both.

Now, perks are LAND or NOT Land, so, why give them to support profs anyway?
I know advies are OP with actual state, but I dont see how it will work for lower TLs (especially TL3/4), where docs AR is crap and perks will never land...

[Mereditche]

Now, perks are LAND or NOT Land, so, why give them to support profs anyway?

Indeed, if support aint supposed to perk anything, then just remove the perks or make them do 1 damage so we can at least marvel at the little bar filling up.

[Kinkstaah]

Indeed, if support aint supposed to perk anything, then just remove the perks or make them do 1 damage so we can at least marvel at the little bar filling up.

Or, if (when?) the mechanics behind perk landing change, you'd be fine. The point stands though, fix dots/nerf doc heals, fix nukes/pets/cc/nerf whatever is appropriate.

The pistol perks arent the real issue.

[Phargus]

Don't really see the problem here. With the new checks:

- Advies will be able to perk anyone but the evade professions. Tigress mps, dodge setup nts might be borderline cases

- Crats will be able to perk anyone advies can perk

- Engies will be able to perk anyone crats/advies can with medallion up

- Doctors will only be able to perk greenies

Engies will be locked into amep to land medallion if they want to perk anyone with pm perks, wich is less than optimal. Everything else is fine...

[Sterva]

- Crats will be able to perk anyone advies can perk

Not true.

This is purely paper pvp. A crat cannot realistically sacrifice nano skills to the point of not even being able to cast your top nanos and also lose hundreds of def points just so you have as much AR as an adv who is NOT sacrificing for the same AR.

[laillea]

Btw about thos pistol perks, I was wondering : would Agents, Soldiers & Fixers use this perk line if they had the access to it?



=> If the answer is yes, it means the def check need to be changed to 100%

[erozc]

Not true.

This is purely paper pvp. A crat cannot realistically sacrifice nano skills to the point of not even being able to cast your top nanos and also lose hundreds of def points just so you have as much AR as an adv who is NOT sacrificing for the same AR.

Advys don't get 1843 BM/MM either without at least CONC 10 and nano Hud / other related crap. Even with nano skill NCUs. 1843 is what's required for our top nano that's required to be cast while in combat (Superior Seed Life). It's currently our only tool versus init debuffs even though it comes with quite serious drawbacks.

Btw about thos pistol perks, I was wondering : would Agents, Soldiers & Fixers use this perk line if they had the access to it?

=> If the answer is yes, it means the def check need to be changed to 100%

I'd use Concussive Shot if I could what's that mean?

[Ixiaan]

Leave it at 80% for the rest of the support professions.

80% checking perks are stupid imo. If FC wants a profession to land perks more easily, they should give them more attack rating instead of using overpowered perk checks.

If crats and engies had 80% PM perks while advs had 100% PM perks, I'm fairly certain crats and engies would be able to perk more people than advs.

[Hacre]

If crats and engies had 80% PM perks while advs had 100% PM perks, I'm fairly certain crats and engies would be able to perk more people than advs.

I've had Ranged Advies perking me before they got all the ranged love. Thatzme was ridiculously dangerous even before the PM love. Perks were 100% check then.

With lots of sacrifice Crats, who I reference as being probably the highest Pistol AR packing "support" profession, get around 3-3.1k pistol AR. With 100% checks, one dazzle and that Crat isn't perking my NT. Dazzle didn't stop Advies perking me. Now combine being able to perk people with 100% checks, with the defenses that Adventurers have, that -no- "support" profession has.

This isn't pre LE where 2.8k AR was considered omg awesome. It's post LE and post LoX where 3k AR is considered low. The fact that Advies can sit around 2.9K AR, concentrating on aad, evades and HP while still perking all but Fixers, says it all, while the other PM using professions need to give up a -lot- to get that 2.9-3.1k AR to land those perks. Advies wouldn't be troubled by 100% checks. The other PM using professions would.

Unless you forgot that pre the PM 80% checking love, every profession that had PM access apart from Adventurers ran around with AS Bows crowbarred into their setup.

[Kinkstaah]

The fact that Advies can sit around 2.9K AR, concentrating on aad, evades and HP while still perking all but Fixers, says it all, while the other PM using professions need to give up a -lot- to get that 2.9-3.1k AR to land those perks. Advies wouldn't be troubled by 100% checks. The other PM using professions would.

And guess what, this is completely FINE, because Adventurers deserve to be better with pistols than support classes do, because they certainly dont heal as well as doctors, dont nuke as well as crats, and advy pets are definitely sub par compared to crats and engineers.

[Hacre]

And guess what, this is completely FINE, because Adventurers deserve to be better with pistols than support classes do, because they certainly dont heal as well as doctors, dont nuke as well as crats, and advy pets are definitely sub par compared to crats and engineers.

They are better with pistols than support classes are. Did you not notice where I said they give up nothing to land these perks?

They'd still not give up as much as "support" professions do if they had 100% checks. Their defences were just fine before when they still had 100% checks and they could land perks, while "support" professions had no hope and thus went with unsupported AS options.